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Meat Women, some hard truth... (blog post)

"If your husband allows or directs you to work outside of the home, then that is his choice. It is not your choice. Remember, you belong to him and are to help him in his mission and calling. If that mean keeping the home and teaching his children, then there is no higher job or calling.

Even the Proverbs 31 woman, a successful business woman in her own right, is operating under the authority of her husband and is bringing her talents and resources to bear for the good of his name/reputation and his house. Your first responsibility is bearing children and making his house into a home. According to his wisdom and guidance, seek to utilize your skills and abilities from the home to add income and assets without neglecting your most important duties of child rearing."


@PeteR, I am curious what you think fathers and mothers should be telling their teenage daughters regarding education for a certain job/field that they find interesting? Are all job interests to be considered a temporary means of support until marriage? Of course, with the possible extension of them if the husband agrees to it? I understand that many wives try and work out of the home or work once children are more grown for various reasons but I am thinking more of young girls who are learning about the different gifts they possess, interests that their personality leans towards and how they can use those things in life before marriage, and possibly after marriage.
Since mothers are almost exclusively responsible for the early education of the children and the level of culture in a home I think educating women is very important. Nothing will elevate the intellectual and artistic environment of a family more than a mother.

Debt should be the only impediment to educating the people who will educate our children.
 
avoid doing the temporary-slut thing in college.

Something I picked up a few years ago reflected on the practices of some young women in college:

They called themselves LUGs or Lesbians Until Graduation.
 
Something I picked up a few years ago reflected on the practices of some young women in college:

They called themselves LUGs or Lesbians Until Graduation.
Hmmm, I don't get it. I am usually pretty quick but you got me on this one Megan.
 
In college they hook up with another girl. But after college they go find a man.
 
Another question for you fathers, would you encourage your daughter to become a Doctor? Scientist?
I'm not regretting the extent to which I encouraged my daughters to be productive, but given the way that lines up with our culture, as well as that they are legally independent as of 18 years of age, there isn't much I can do to prevent them from doing whatever they choose to do. So they will do what they want to do.

However, I never encouraged any of my children to go to college. If they were passionate about pursuing a career that required college, I was very supportive of their own self-motivated efforts to do so, which included assisting Mercer in racking up all the background requirements for gaining admission to the Air Force Academy and even living 2 additional years in Pennsylvania so Naomi could become valedictorian. But, when they asked, I always told them I thought college wasn't worth the investment unless they had a specific career in mind among the minority that actually require some kind of diploma, because those degrees aren't worth what students pay for them, much less the additional 200% that all the governmental and alumni subsidies amount to (Big Ed is one of the biggest rackets in this country).

As far as my daughters go, I failed to fully prepare them to be good helpmeets, but what I did do from birth on was encourage them to be prepared to have children within the context of being married, without necessarily even waiting until they were legal adults. I've long believed that we mistakenly encourage young women to wait too long to get married.

So I would never encourage my daughters to be doctors or scientists, but if they were passionate about doing so, I would support their choice; however, I would certainly discuss with them the fact that that level of educational commitment would almost necessarily interfere with their desire (which each of my daughters has pretty consistently expressed) to have many children, as well as with their ability to have a significant in-person relationship with those children during their formative years. Research backs up that mothers are more important to children during their early years and that fathers are more important during puberty and what we call adolescence.

Kristin and I both probably would have been very encouraging to either of our daughters had they exhibited any desire to become midwives, but neither did. I certainly believe that's a calling that is likely almost entirely appropriate for women, but I don't know that I'd agree with the same statement being made about ob/gyn's. Our ob/gyn for our first three children was Dr. Joseph Tate in Atlanta GA, an Orthodox Jew who had to go before a rabbinical counsel to receive special permission to even go to school to become an ob/gyn. He is a world-renown leader in both cliterodectomy reversals and VBACs (vaginal births after Caesareans); he may be 90 years old now, but if he's still practicing both Kristin and I would wholeheartedly recommend him to anyone. Incredibly supportive about natural childbirth.

I know I'm rambling, but, back to the original question: I have found with my daughter who is in college that, in discussing her motivations, probably the biggest one she has for getting a degree is to prove that she can make it on her own. She has a very difficult time ascertaining who her 'audience' is for doing such proving, but it's pretty clear to me: some is from her mother, but most of it is just a matter of that being the message she got from almost all of her teachers growing up in public school. Most of her teachers were women, and very few of them had children. In my own conversations with those teachers, they very consistently came across to me as being personally desperate to prove that they themselves were happy and that they didn't need to depend on any man; a great many of them are committed to never having any children but declare like robots that they think of their students as their children.

I can pinpoint a number of key points in my life where I made the wrong choices, and the pattern is one of demonstrating my weakness as a man. As they relate to my children, probably the biggest one was caving in about sending them to public school. I don't recommend it to anyone -- especially for the reason that drove Kristin to demand it for Felix: 'socialization.' They don't socialize children; they indoctrinate them and prepare them to be cogs in a 'socialismized' world. I'm proud of my daughters for making it through that gauntlet still insistent on being mothers, but that's just one part of a mental soup that includes being very driven to impress others that they can make it on their own.
 
Something I picked up a few years ago reflected on the practices of some young women in college:

They called themselves LUGs or Lesbians Until Graduation.
As a former university residence life administrator, I can promise any parent that even 'church' schools these days have a very significant ethos on campus that includes what @MeganC is asserting. It's probably not predominantly LUGs but much more so BUGs (Bisexual Until Graduation), but the BUGs have far more sex with other females during college than they do with males.

At the last university where I worked (University of Alaska Anchorage), I was reprimanded by my superiors for telling one of my female Resident Assistants (student employees) that she should stop hosting orgies in her room for groups of 8-20 students at a time; those groups typically included at least twice as many females as males (and this was back when males still outnumbered females on campus).

Feminism, hedonism and anti-Christianity are all almost universally tolerated on 95% of college campuses these days, even at so-called church schools.
 
Here's another thought: if a woman isn't going to utilize a college degree to jump-start her into what would end up being 4 decades of professional life anyway (if she plans to be a mother and homemaker at some point), why not get married and have children during the years in which her body will more adequately handle pregnancy, childbirth and running around with little children? -- and then go get a degree once the children are grown up themselves? She might be 55 by the time she gets her bachelor's degree, but she could still utilize it for a 15-year career, and she'd be able to do so with a whole lot more wisdom under her belt.

As things stand, the majority of both men and women do not end up pursuing careers related to their college majors anyway, and the young women with degrees, on average, remain in the workforce for less than 10 years before shifting to marriage and motherhood. This was what my mother did (college after raising children), and it made way more sense than waiting until one is 35 to start having essentially geriatric pregnancies.
 
Here's another thought: if a woman isn't going to utilize a college degree to jump-start her into what would end up being 4 decades of professional life anyway (if she plans to be a mother and homemaker at some point), why not get married and have children during the years in which her body will more adequately handle pregnancy, childbirth and running around with little children? -- and then go get a degree once the children are grown up themselves? She might be 55 by the time she gets her bachelor's degree, but she could still utilize it for a 15-year career, and she'd be able to do so with a whole lot more wisdom under her belt.
I have thought this myself before, more of the lines "I wish I knew back then what I know now" type of thing, I would have done so much better in College. I also have 2 family members who got their RN degrees in their 50's. For some mothers, I can see this working well for them. For me, I became a mother and never looked back. Again, it has to work well with the wishes of the Husband and the direction or dynamic he wants for his family in those years.

I really appreciate everyone's comments. I also apologize to @PeteR for hi-jacking his thread a bit. To summarize my thoughts, I hope every father of young daughters who desire to prepare them for marriage and motherhood, will consider encouraging the whole of his daughter. As stated by @The Revolting Man, education regarding many subjects (however that my be obtained) can only add to the enrichment of her children and family. My concern is that fathers who have a strong mindset about preparing their daughters for marriage and finding her the "perfect" husband can get lost in only those things. They may over look the benefit in encouraging their daughters in gifts they have or interests they have that seem unimportant to his goal. Once I asked a very conservative Christian father what his eldest daughter, I think she was around 17, was interested in or learning about in her life. He had to stop and think about it, and admitted he didn't really know. I know that is a small sample of Conservative Christian fathers but it has always stuck with me especially since he was VERY involved with connecting her with suitable young men.

As in everything, our individual families have their own ways and missions. I only asked these questions to understand the thoughts of different fathers regarding this subject. (And so I can better explain to new ladies, if asked, what mind sets certain families may have regarding this. :-) )
 
but it has always stuck with me especially since he was VERY involved with connecting her with suitable young men.
Great -- and gracious -- message, @julieb, full of wisdom, and I'm not a Very Conservative Man, but I will assert with a great deal of confidence that, despite our culture's extreme resistance to this, the best thing a father could possibly do for his daughter is to pair her up with a good man (I purposefully left out the qualifier 'young') who will provide stability, covering, love and passion for her, as well as the assistance most all women require to keep themselves grounded without being carried away on tides of emotional instability. I know it's generally verboten to say some of these things out loud, because the accepted myth is that women are the fairer sex who civilize males, who would otherwise be wild savages -- but the opposite is closer to being the case, as men provide the vast majority of the structure and stability within which women can safely operate. So I see education as a plus, but it fully pales in comparison to the value to a woman of having a good male mate. We're whistling Dixie if we think women could ever survive on their own, so the whole independence thing is a comforting illusion and doesn't in any real reality prepare women for partnerless futures that in any more than 1% of life situations result in anything but lonely, scary poverty. When one couples that with the fact that youngsters aren't very grounded about how they pick their mates, I think it's safe to say that most young women would be looking at enhanced future life scripts if their fathers chose their husbands for them. At this point, though, that's just a philosophical musing.
 
Another question for you fathers, would you encourage your daughter to become a Doctor? Scientist?
I don’t believe that there is a one size fits all answer.

Let me give a worst case scenario:
A girl who just Has to Follow her Dream digs in , applies herself diligently, and graduates with 150 grand in student debt. She is now married to her career and has to manage/nurture that debt.
The guy who would be her best fit for an awesome husband wants a stay at home mother for his children and he cannot take over her debt plus having a family on his income. He moves on.
So she grows old alone, living the Dream has has taken over her life and prevented her from becoming the nurturing mother and wife that she was really designed to be.

I said it was worst case scenario, not that it is the probable outcome.

Best case scenario;
Yah’s plan is that she became an ob gyn, marry a doctor, helping build his practice and work part time while the children grow, ministering in health to people that would never darken the doorway of a church.

As @Keith said, following that dream later in life is a huge option.

Mostly, we haven’t been taught to partner with Yah because we have bought the worlds lie, that life is about our own dreams.
We fail to remember that we have been bought with a price, that we are servants of the Most High.
He has more dreams about how He can use us to build His Kingdom than we could ever imagine. But mostly we follow our own inferior dreams.
 
I also apologize to @PeteR for hi-jacking his thread a bit.
No apology needed. Good discussion with some solid thoughts to process! 😁
 
the best thing a father could possibly do for his daughter is to pair her up with a good man
I understand the value in that statement, in regards to my "example" I was thinking how can a father still pick or approve of a man for his daughter if he didn't spend much time knowing her hearts desires/skills a bit more?

he has the responsibility to find, or help find, a suitable husband for the daughter that can properly shepherd the abilities so that they do not undermine the man or the long term direction of his family....
I fully acknowledge that young woman and men change in their interests/passions as more experiences are lived. And God is very capable of directing their paths to learn all they need to learn to be what He desires ultimately. I guess I am projecting a bit of my own experience with growing up, that when I look back I wished my parents had taken more of an interest in what my personality had shown them and encouraged me in that. HInd sight and all....Though I am 100% sure my parents never would have anticipated that their daughter would be a polygynist! And there were many times that I didn't see myself as a good mother, yet the Lord knew all that He had put in me, which I am very grateful for. So, as fathers and mothers we do our very best to nurture, direct and teach our children that they may have a good foundation to walk any path that God has for them to walk.

Though, I regret a little bit that we named our first born son NOAH. He has such a heart for people, all over this world, hence he has been rarely home since he turned 18. He informed me that he had gone to his 50th country last month. He is 26. I know God has something amazing for him to do in life. I can't wait to see it come to fruition.
 
I understand the value in that statement, in regards to my "example" I was thinking how can a father still pick or approve of a man for his daughter if he didn't spend much time knowing her hearts desires/skills a bit more?


I fully acknowledge that young woman and men change in their interests/passions as more experiences are lived. And God is very capable of directing their paths to learn all they need to learn to be what He desires ultimately. I guess I am projecting a bit of my own experience with growing up, that when I look back I wished my parents had taken more of an interest in what my personality had shown them and encouraged me in that. HInd sight and all....Though I am 100% sure my parents never would have anticipated that their daughter would be a polygynist! And there were many times that I didn't see myself as a good mother, yet the Lord knew all that He had put in me, which I am very grateful for. So, as fathers and mothers we do our very best to nurture, direct and teach our children that they may have a good foundation to walk any path that God has for them to walk.

Though, I regret a little bit that we named our first born son NOAH. He has such a heart for people, all over this world, hence he has been rarely home since he turned 18. He informed me that he had gone to his 50th country last month. He is 26. I know God has something amazing for him to do in life. I can't wait to see it come to fruition.
While your son is flooding the world with his presence, just remember that the original Noah rescued all of future humanity.
 
I don’t believe that there is a one size fits all answer.

Let me give a worst case scenario:
A girl who just Has to Follow her Dream digs in , applies herself diligently, and graduates with 150 grand in student debt. She is now married to her career and has to manage/nurture that debt.
The guy who would be her best fit for an awesome husband wants a stay at home mother for his children and he cannot take over her debt plus having a family on his income. He moves on.
So she grows old alone, living the Dream has has taken over her life and prevented her from becoming the nurturing mother and wife that she was really designed to be.

I said it was worst case scenario, not that it is the probable outcome.

Best case scenario;
Yah’s plan is that she became an ob gyn, marry a doctor, helping build his practice and work part time while the children grow, ministering in health to people that would never darken the doorway of a church.

As @Keith said, following that dream later in life is a huge option.

Mostly, we haven’t been taught to partner with Yah because we have bought the worlds lie, that life is about our own dreams.
We fail to remember that we have been bought with a price, that we are servants of the Most High.
He has more dreams about how He can use us to build His Kingdom than we could ever imagine. But mostly we follow our own inferior dreams.
I had a female Christian friend twenty years ago that was a medical doctor and had I think $300,000 of student loans. She was blessed to marry a good man, and had at least one child.

I imagine medical doctors these days are probably coming out with around $500,000 in student loans.

When you are $500,000 in non-bankruptable debt you will probably push whatever toxic injections Fauci and crew tells you too.

Generally speaking I wouldn't encourage a daughter in that direction.

Science isn't quite as bad as medicine from the debt perspective (nor as lucrative on the income side). Graduate degrees in science (and meager living expenses) are generally paid for by fellowships, teaching or research assistantships, etc. I never borrowed any money for my MS or doctorate in the agricultural sciences.

Still, graduate school (and college too) take time, robbing young women of their prime childbearing years. They are probably poor investments.

I use to work with a nice older lady, and she said that she never pushed her three daughters in the college route. They all married shortly after high school, and started giving her grandchildren. All the daughters and grandchildren live within twenty miles of grandma and grandpa, and they all have close relationships.

Other people push their children towards high flying careers, and sadly find their grandchildren spread all around the country or even world.

I have a Christian friend that is an Agronomist like myself, and he pushed his kids towards academia (crazy smart kids), and now they are spread between Europe, Hawaii, Seattle, etc. They also became Covid fearing liberals, instead of the proper gun toting rednecks and sound minded Christians that their dad really wanted them to be.
 
I understand the value in that statement, in regards to my "example" I was thinking how can a father still pick or approve of a man for his daughter if he didn't spend much time knowing her hearts desires/skills a bit more?
I guess I am projecting a bit of my own experience with growing up, that when I look back I wished my parents had taken more of an interest in what my personality had shown them and encouraged me in that.
I think it's entirely normal and human to look back and question whether differing parenting would have resulted in preferable outcomes, but what rarely goes along with that is contemplation of how the differing parenting just as easily could have resulted in unwelcome outcomes.

All I can do when considering this on a macro level is partially rely on what I've read but primarily rely on a lifetime of observation, and the pattern of my observations is that most significant examples of parents putting a great deal of focus on actualizing their children's heart's desires seem to be much more likely to result in adult lives of misery. Not a hard and fast rule -- there are many exceptions -- but generally those who become the center of that kind of attention are eventually in for a big letdown when they discover that they're unprepared to live without being that focus or providing it for others.
 
I would ask myself, 'what would Yah tell the daughter?'

I don't presume to put words in His mouth, but I think He'd remind her of her purpose and reason for being according to Creation: Helpmeet and multiplier. Therefore,

1. first order of business is preparing the daughter to be wife and mother. This is her highest calling.

2. As with the Proverbs 31 woman, 'helpmeet' includes buying and selling property, dealing w merchants, etc... her husband must have seen in her skills and talents that he developed and/or capitalized on for the good of the family.

3. Skills, knowledge, talents that are above and beyond her root calliing can be developed and directed by her father (and mother) but he has the responsibility to find, or help find, a suitable husband for the daughter that can properly shepherd the abilities so that they do not undermine the man or the long term direction of his family....

@Keith Martin and @Farmer Moses make some good points. An especially gifted young woman may best fit in a plural family where others can help her cover her basic purpose re children, keeper of home, etc.. I like what I've seen/learned from several large families that understand poly as economic warfare... a further consideration, how much student loan debt will she accrue and how will that impact her life, husband's life, etc.. is it worth it?
 
I would ask myself, 'what would Yah tell the daughter?'

I don't presume to put words in His mouth, but I think He'd remind her of her purpose and reason for being according to Creation: Helpmeet and multiplier. Therefore,

1. first order of business is preparing the daughter to be wife and mother. This is her highest calling.

2. As with the Proverbs 31 woman, 'helpmeet' includes buying and selling property, dealing w merchants, etc... her husband must have seen in her skills and talents that he developed and/or capitalized on for the good of the family.

3. Skills, knowledge, talents that are above and beyond her root calliing can be developed and directed by her father (and mother) but he has the responsibility to find, or help find, a suitable husband for the daughter that can properly shepherd the abilities so that they do not undermine the man or the long term direction of his family....

@Keith Martin and @Farmer Moses make some good points. An especially gifted young woman may best fit in a plural family where others can help her cover her basic purpose re children, keeper of home, etc.. I like what I've seen/learned from several large families that understand poly as economic warfare... a further consideration, how much student loan debt will she accrue and how will that impact her life, husband's life, etc.. is it worth it?
An especially gifted young woman may best fit in a plural family where others can help her cover her basic purpose re children, keeper of home, etc..
I fully agree. especially young women can find help and support in plural families. also with their first baby sister wives are heaven sent helpers
 
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