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Women's clothing

Edward said:
I guess let me put it to you this way if it was a shame for a priest to show a little leg then it definitely should be a shame for us. We are to be the priest of our home.
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Bro the Priest "undergarments" didn't cover his legs it covered his genitals...
Exodus 28:42 NASB
You shall make for them linen breeches to cover their bare flesh; they shall reach from the loins even to the thighs.

Again I have standards as i'm sure most men here do, but they are largely opinion based on this particular subject. The scripture doesn't give much "direction" about this. Almost 100% of the teaching on this subject is culturally based and pasted together verses out of context to support the viewpoint of the preacher. And it is geared towards making men feel guilty about their natural desires that are somehow wrong. It's adding to scripture and that is spoken just as strongly against as taking away from scripture is.
 
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Pacman said:
but they are largely opinion based on this particular subjec
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Yet when a woman dresses to get attention on her body all the men get the message loud and clear.
 
rockfox said:
Yet when a woman dresses to get attention on her body all the men get the message loud and clear.
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Of course we do and depending on what her head wishes for her to be wearing that may or may not be wrong for her to do. But the truth is that scripturally there is no sin in a man giving her that attention. This is a societal and religious construct not a scriptural one.
 
Pacman said:
Of course we do and depending on what her head wishes for her to be wearing that may or may not be wrong for her to do. But the truth is that scripturally there is no sin in a man giving her that attention. This is a societal and religious construct not a scriptural one.
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So the sin is only on the immodest one?
 
rockfox said:
So you're saying there is no sin in wearing immodest clothing?
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That depends on your definition of modest. Which in scripture basically means appropriate to the occasion.
Assuming she is not rebelling against her husband or father. No there is no sin in it. Because the Bible does not give any commands regarding it.

I feel like a broken record saying this again but I believe every man should have standards for the women in his life. But it is not up to me or anyone else to tell that man what his standard should be because the Bible does not give any command about it.
 
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Pacman said:
That depends on your definition of modest. Which in scripture basically means appropriate to the occasion.
Assuming she is not rebelling against her husband or father. No there is no sin in it. Because the Bible does not give any commands regarding it.

I feel like a broken record saying this again but I believe every man should have standards for the women in his life. But it is not up to me or anyone else to tell that man what his standard should be because the Bible does not give any command about it.
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So string bikini's are ok to wear so long as the husband approves?
 
rockfox said:
So string bikini's are ok to wear so long as the husband approves?
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Sooo according to Pacman, I guess I could let my wife put stickers on her nipples and walk around in public for all to see?? I know I know don't be ridiculous!! No one would ever let their wife do that, well guess what I have seen it. A lot of men think it's okay for them and their wife to walk around nude at a beach. Remember...


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 14:12 KJV


AaanD we are to....

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV


And let's not forget...


And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 12:2 KJV


Pacman you say appropriate to the occasion.


But the Bible says...

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Timothy 2:9 KJV


And let's not forget in the beginning...


Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Genesis 3:21 KJV


Okay so now I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt when you say "for it depends on the occasion"


Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

John 21:7 KJV


If you noticed he's at work out on that fishing boat and they're naked and we don't know if their butt naked, but a man standing around in his underwear is naked also.


I'm sure what he planned on doing was making sure he was modest when he got to land.

I mean here even at home I'll mow the yard in shorts maybe even without a shirt, but when I go into town or I have company coming over I make sure I'm modest. because the last thing I want to do is cause a sister to lust after me, or a brother to lust after my wife we don't want to put a stumbling block out there. We see enough of this trash out in the world.


Here's something that will really blow your mind, when we don't take modesty serious. I came across an article about a church that has service where people can be there nude. The Heavenly Father sets the standard man says whatever I feel is right.


I was not raised in a Christian home in any way shape or form, but I do know one thing for sure when I became a true born again bible-believing Christian things changed, the way I dress changed, the way I talked change. Now I look at the church today and they are dressing like I did and like my wife did when we were lost and on our way to hell.


I've grown to love the brothers here and I know this might be one of those things where we will just have to agree to disagree.
 
Edward said:
Now I look at the church today and they are dressing like I did and like my wife did when we were lost and on our way to hell.
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As I see it, the churches don’t need to be the clothes police.

But where they are failing is in teaching fathers and husbands to do their duty and REQUIRE reasonable standards for their wives and daughters.
Empower the men, rather than further replace their authority. But the church says it’s ok that my skirt is two inches above my knees, SO THERE!
 
Edward said:
Sooo according to Pacman, I guess I could let my wife put stickers on her nipples and walk around in public for all to see?? I know I know don't be ridiculous!! No one would ever let their wife do that, well guess what I have seen it. A lot of men think it's okay for them and their wife to walk around nude at a beach. Remember...


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 14:12 KJV


AaanD we are to....

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV


And let's not forget...


And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 12:2 KJV


Pacman you say appropriate to the occasion.


But the Bible says...

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Timothy 2:9 KJV


And let's not forget in the beginning...


Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Genesis 3:21 KJV


Okay so now I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt when you say "for it depends on the occasion"


Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

John 21:7 KJV


If you noticed he's at work out on that fishing boat and they're naked and we don't know if their butt naked, but a man standing around in his underwear is naked also.


I'm sure what he planned on doing was making sure he was modest when he got to land.

I mean here even at home I'll mow the yard in shorts maybe even without a shirt, but when I go into town or I have company coming over I make sure I'm modest. because the last thing I want to do is cause a sister to lust after me, or a brother to lust after my wife we don't want to put a stumbling block out there. We see enough of this trash out in the world.


Here's something that will really blow your mind, when we don't take modesty serious. I came across an article about a church that has service where people can be there nude. The Heavenly Father sets the standard man says whatever I feel is right.


I was not raised in a Christian home in any way shape or form, but I do know one thing for sure when I became a true born again bible-believing Christian things changed, the way I dress changed, the way I talked change. Now I look at the church today and they are dressing like I did and like my wife did when we were lost and on our way to hell.


I've grown to love the brothers here and I know this might be one of those things where we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Pacman said:
Almost 100% of the teaching on this subject is culturally based and pasted together verses out of context to support the viewpoint of the preacher.
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Edward said:
Sooo according to Pacman, I guess I could let my wife put stickers on her nipples and walk around in public for all to see??
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If you allowed it she wouldn’t be sinning. I would have serious questions about your discernment! buuuut the scriptures say nothing against it so it’s adding to scripture to call it a sin.
 
rockfox said:
So string bikini's are ok to wear so long as the husband approves?
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Pacman said:
Yes. That’s correct. This actually applies to a whole host of things in the life of a woman.
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Pacman is describing what is technically correct if you want to pull out the letter of the law. NOT what any of us would necessarily actually approve for our women. There is a line of what is sensible (which we basically all agree on probably bar a few minor variations), and then there's the scriptural line. And the scriptural line is very simple:
Genitals: Torah repeatedly speaks against uncovering the "nakedness". Nakedness is "'ervah", meaning "nudity, literally (especially the pudenda) or figuratively (disgrace, blemish)". 'ervah is most literally the genitals.
Possibly, head: 1 Cor 11:5-6 (depending on how you interpret it).

So, definitely don't let your women show their genitals. Maybe don't let them show their heads (depending on your understanding of whether that applies or not, which is another topic). That's all.

Even whether they show their entire breasts is completely undefined in scripture, and over to interpretation within the cultural context. And even the most conservative people are somewhat flexible on that (if you catch a glimpse of a nipple while a woman is breastfeeding, that is passed over without comment - even if all involved consider it to have been highly embarrassing nobody thinks it was sinful and everybody just tries to forget it ever happened).

Now the line of what is sensible to avoid lust is obviously long before that, and what individuals may find problematically attractive may even be influenced by their cultural upbringing. If we lived in Saudi Arabia, I would have my wife wear more conservative clothing than in New Zealand, because to wear what she does here would be culturally offensive and could attract unwanted attention from men - I'd at least have her head cover there for instance, while she doesn't here. On the other hand, if I let her wander around topless in an African village (and I'm not saying I would), she wouldn't even be glanced at.
(Well, actually she would be stared at because she's white, and a topless white woman in an African village would be a very unusual sight, so that's not at all true. But I'm making a hypothetical point so ignore that detail...)
 
Edward said:
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Timothy 2:9 KJV
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Note that is entirely a list of what not to wear. "Modest", in that verse, is defined as not showing off with fancy jewelery or expensive clothing.
By definition, a completely naked woman would be "modest" according to 1 Timothy 2:9, provided she was also "shamefaced and sober".
I'm not arguing for nudity. I'm just saying that verse is irrelevant.
 
Edward said:
Sooo according to Pacman, I guess I could let my wife put stickers on her nipples and walk around in public for all to see??
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No, that would be disgusting. She'd have to pull the stickers off her nipples and put them on her vulva instead. Then she'd be good to go.
:eek::rolleyes:o_O
 
Modest dress apparently:

586b02ea1b489bf03487d86099968c4d.jpg
 
If modest can mean whatever we want then it can be anything or nothing; the command is made null.
 
rockfox said:
If modest can mean whatever we want then it can be anything or nothing; the command is made null.
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Who is advocating for it to “mean whatever we want” ???
 
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