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Husband = Idol ??
- Thread starter windblown
- Start date
So.... 2 relationships. 4 possible outcomes? (Oversimplified for practical purposes
)1. "Good" Christian - Bad wife: She goes to church, uses all the churchy lingo but completely disrespects her husband.
2. Bad Christian - Bad wife: She is a mediocre Christian who sometimes goes to church/uses churchy lingo and obviously disrespects her husband.
3. Good Christian - Good wife: She has an intimate relationship with God (church going and lingo notwithstanding) and follows His word and completely respects her husband.
4. "Bad" Christian - Good wife: She is a mediocre Christian who sometimes goes to church and whatnot but completely respects her husband.
Honorable mention: the Buddhist couple who seemingly have all their *bleep* together. Okay, so he may be gay and she may be asexual or vice versa. But they've made it work for 40 years.
I think one of the main problems is the definition of the word idol. According to most Christians, basically anything is an idol. That's not what the bible says. In my previous post I was referring to the term idolise.
Definition:
1. To regard with great or uncritical admiration or devotion.
2. To worship as an idol.
I meant number 1.
So, if you're bowing down to your husband and praying to him and assuming he has some sort of supernatural powers - then yes, he's become an idol. Otherwise, nope.
Here's the way I see things. I have very little time to read the bible or have alone/private time to pray. Just doesn't happen. And if I do find time to pray I'm far enough from YHWH right now that I don't feel anything anymore. This is for sure something I need to work on, but I have a tonne of things I need to work on, and I'm taking it one day at a time right now, so I can only do so much. It should be a priority right now, I know that, but it's not. If you knew what a mess we were in here you would understand.
Here's what I can do. I can do the jobs that YHWH has given me to the best of my ability. You see, He has me in certain roles and performing certain tasks, ones that only I can do.
- to care for Samuel
- to obey Samuel
- to run this house to the best of my ability
- to look after His children
- to educate and teach His children
I am doing those jobs with a full heart in the best way I can. In these tasks I am worshipping YHWH. In these tasks I am obeying Him.
I don't even remember the last time I went to church, I always have a baby that needs a nap at that time.
So then, where am I on your list @windblown ?
The bad Christian - good wife?
Or am I the good Christian for doing YHWH's will - and also a good wife?
You see, boxes rarely fit. There are spectrums and grey areas and a straight line that is all squiggly in the middle and splits off into many roads.
People love to see just black and white, but life isn't like that. In fact, that's why the modern definition of 'idol' doesn't work.
Now I am required to help with school work - excuse me while I go and do YHWH's will.
Definition:
1. To regard with great or uncritical admiration or devotion.
2. To worship as an idol.
I meant number 1.
So, if you're bowing down to your husband and praying to him and assuming he has some sort of supernatural powers - then yes, he's become an idol. Otherwise, nope.
Here's the way I see things. I have very little time to read the bible or have alone/private time to pray. Just doesn't happen. And if I do find time to pray I'm far enough from YHWH right now that I don't feel anything anymore. This is for sure something I need to work on, but I have a tonne of things I need to work on, and I'm taking it one day at a time right now, so I can only do so much. It should be a priority right now, I know that, but it's not. If you knew what a mess we were in here you would understand.
Here's what I can do. I can do the jobs that YHWH has given me to the best of my ability. You see, He has me in certain roles and performing certain tasks, ones that only I can do.
- to care for Samuel
- to obey Samuel
- to run this house to the best of my ability
- to look after His children
- to educate and teach His children
I am doing those jobs with a full heart in the best way I can. In these tasks I am worshipping YHWH. In these tasks I am obeying Him.
I don't even remember the last time I went to church, I always have a baby that needs a nap at that time.
So then, where am I on your list @windblown ?
The bad Christian - good wife?
Or am I the good Christian for doing YHWH's will - and also a good wife?
You see, boxes rarely fit. There are spectrums and grey areas and a straight line that is all squiggly in the middle and splits off into many roads.
People love to see just black and white, but life isn't like that. In fact, that's why the modern definition of 'idol' doesn't work.
Now I am required to help with school work - excuse me while I go and do YHWH's will
.
Yes. THIS. I wrote a post very similar, I just didn’t post it and now it’s lost lol.
Being a good wife IS being a good Christian. We are doing exactly as the Father has instructed us to do in this place in life. We aren’t called to all the “Christian tasks” that current Christians think. So often, if you are doing churchy things like attending every Sunday, leading prayer groups and having the appearance of loving your husband (when in your heart you disrespect his authority), that is it what makes you a good Christian. Heaven forbid you miss Sunday’s and obey your husband in everything! Then they question you and think you are being led astray.
Titus 2 (KJV) 1-5
But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
I am still in the “younger women” category in the thick of raising babies and learning how to love Jesus by fulfill my role just loving my husband, being obedient to him, loving my babies and keeping the home. When my role changes as my kids grow, I am to continue to love my husband and obey him, but I will also help teach younger women how to do the same and be an example of a Godly wife.
Over the last 4 years, I have attended "church" some, but I would say, I honestly glean more from my husbands teaching at home than I do when I do go to church- chasing and bouncing small children makes it impossible to learn AND what is taught leaves me feeling empty due to the lack of biblical truths. Maybe there is a reason that it talks about a wife is to be silent in church and ask questions at home haha.
1 Cor 14:34-35 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
If they learn anything - I know I am in that boat often As for looking to my husband, I do not think it is wrong to love him with utter devotion, to obey him completely, to seek to make him happy, to give him my earthly all.
This, yes, your focus is wrong. My husband will not give me salvation. He will not save me from my sins. I do honor God and worship my Father when I love my husband and children well.
This is exactly why I don't like going to church. Having to deal with a grumpy baby and try to feed a kid that wants to look around (yes, what I really want is my nipple on show to the whole of the church, thank you very much child!), and get a baby off to sleep, and stop the toddler from going through the lady's bag that is sitting in front, and keep the kids quiet - just to hear a sermon that's not what I believe or I can point out massive holes etc, so not worth it!
I do miss the music though.
I don't miss the shallow talking afterwards. When people ask how you are they don't really want to hear the truth. And no one wants to talk about the sermon or about YHWH. Or maybe they think that I don't, I don't know.
Thank you, FH2. Your response, as well as WOHY, was very relieving for me.
Thank goodness I'm not the only one who thinks the modern definition of idolatry is bonkers.
The real concern for me is that I have never had that close "relationship" with God in my adult life. My childhood, yes, but then left the faith for 15 years until Zec brought me back. I don't know what it's supposed to look like...if I get all caught up in our (brainwashed) modern way of thinking. I also wonder if I had a closer "relationship," would my efforts to be a good wife succeed better? (Another dilemma that I ponder frequently...am I trying to do this with my own strength and that's why I fail...?)
Anywhoo… Thanks again for responding, everyone who did. I can put to rest my idol question for now.
I was really just trying to oversimplify the points.
Thank goodness I'm not the only one who thinks the modern definition of idolatry is bonkers.
The real concern for me is that I have never had that close "relationship" with God in my adult life. My childhood, yes, but then left the faith for 15 years until Zec brought me back. I don't know what it's supposed to look like...if I get all caught up in our (brainwashed) modern way of thinking. I also wonder if I had a closer "relationship," would my efforts to be a good wife succeed better? (Another dilemma that I ponder frequently...am I trying to do this with my own strength and that's why I fail...?)
Anywhoo… Thanks again for responding, everyone who did. I can put to rest my idol question for now.
@windblown I have noticed in my life that when I am searching for what something of faith needs to look like I never find it. When I search for the feeling it is so much easier to find. We as women are emotional people. There is no getting around that. When making a decision we are more likely to be heard saying “I feel we should because...”
I grew up with strong faith, went away for a few years and when I returned it took a bit but my relationship with HIM was even stronger. I feel (there’s that word again) that when I just let go of all my preconceived notions, and stop over thinking it then HE finds a way to show me that I’m going the right direction. I pray everyday for HIS guidance and then really remember to get out of my over thinking head and be lead by my heart and my husband. That works every time.
I grew up with strong faith, went away for a few years and when I returned it took a bit but my relationship with HIM was even stronger. I feel (there’s that word again) that when I just let go of all my preconceived notions, and stop over thinking it then HE finds a way to show me that I’m going the right direction. I pray everyday for HIS guidance and then really remember to get out of my over thinking head and be lead by my heart and my husband. That works every time.
This has been a very interesting thread, lots to think about. I think I may have to adjust my definition of an Idol, myself. For now though, I would like to throw one more item in the mix to ponder. I describe an Idol in my heart as something that defines me in an unbalanced way; something that holds more importance in defining who I am than my commitment, my love, to my God. If our serving our husbands becomes the only "definition" of our value then something is off. If we are striving to be the "best wife" only to give value to ourselves, by how well or not well we are doing that, then we are trapped by a way of thought that will never be fulfilled. We are daughters of the King, we are wives, we are lovers, we are mothers, we are friends, we are homemakers, we are students, we are business women, we are servers, and much more. All these things define us in the unique way we do them but when something in our lives defines our value out of a need within us and becomes more important than our desire to follow the truths of our Savior, then we are emotionally off balance.
For me, the Church and the life I desired to create in it, a life that would define me as a good Christian woman (and wife and mother), was my Idol. When the Lord asked me if I would be willing to give it all up for a different path into plural marriage, I was like "What!!". I was being asked to give up almost everything that defined me, that made me feel value and worth. Of course, as the Lord can only do, He encouraged me with a promise that if I would give it up and trust Him then he would restore it all back to me in the future. He has done that and more as He has brought the Church back to me thru Biblical Families where He has allowed me to serve the Church thru you all. It defines me to a degree but it is in balance to His voice, His will.
I have talked with enough first wives to know that sometimes our desire to be the "best wife ever" is really a cover for "I need this man to give my life value, to have purpose or I am nothing." So, when this man talks of adding another wife into the family, I feel totally betrayed, totally unloved and worthless. This is a lie.
@windblown, being submissive and respectful of our husbands in all things is practically a sin in the Church today. Christian women are taught to distrust other women and their husbands so giving your trust to your husband is very scary to them. So, of course it must be wrong and you are brainwashed with "old" controlling ways of doing marriage. May the Lord confirm in your heart all that you need to know and may you find freedom in that.
For me, the Church and the life I desired to create in it, a life that would define me as a good Christian woman (and wife and mother), was my Idol. When the Lord asked me if I would be willing to give it all up for a different path into plural marriage, I was like "What!!". I was being asked to give up almost everything that defined me, that made me feel value and worth. Of course, as the Lord can only do, He encouraged me with a promise that if I would give it up and trust Him then he would restore it all back to me in the future. He has done that and more as He has brought the Church back to me thru Biblical Families where He has allowed me to serve the Church thru you all. It defines me to a degree but it is in balance to His voice, His will.
I have talked with enough first wives to know that sometimes our desire to be the "best wife ever" is really a cover for "I need this man to give my life value, to have purpose or I am nothing." So, when this man talks of adding another wife into the family, I feel totally betrayed, totally unloved and worthless. This is a lie.
@windblown, being submissive and respectful of our husbands in all things is practically a sin in the Church today. Christian women are taught to distrust other women and their husbands so giving your trust to your husband is very scary to them. So, of course it must be wrong and you are brainwashed with "old" controlling ways of doing marriage. May the Lord confirm in your heart all that you need to know and may you find freedom in that.
Wow! Lots of very interesting thoughts! Sorry I have been MIA, I have been thinking this over and my thoughts are all still kind of jumbly on it. I think for me I was trying to use Slumberfreeze as a replacement for God at a point. Not on purpose, of course. Pretty much what Julie said:
Except for me it was more like 'worthy' not like 'best wife' but because I found someone that loves me. I grew up not really believing anyone could love me because I was a little chubby and shy and not one of the popular kids that always had a boyfriend so when this perfect man said he loved me I sank all my devotion and trust and energy into him and basked in that feeling of finally being perfect and lovable. So of course poly came as quite a shock and was (is? lol - getting better) quite difficult. So for my personal life I think I did make him into an idol, he was my comfort and my safety. I didn't really pursue a relationship with God, I chased after things that would satisfy my flesh in trying to keep Slumber loving me. Silly, right? Hubby totes loves me. But I was building him to be the everything in my life and my only source for comfort and safety. I mean he still is the like the best, and I still have comfort and safety in him, but now I learning to get my peace in God, trusting God. God leading my husband, God being my ultimate comfort, and my strong tower. Slumberfreeze doesn't need to love me alone (I'm trying to get here lol!), because the God of all creation does. And that is more than enough. That is what I am trying to build onto, not the sand that I had been building on before.
So it's all very jumbly in my head but I think that maybe it's something that can't necessarily be measured for all women where the line is for making your husband an idol ( except for the bowing down and worshiping for salvation, I think we all get that is totes idolatry lol)
Except for me it was more like 'worthy' not like 'best wife' but because I found someone that loves me. I grew up not really believing anyone could love me because I was a little chubby and shy and not one of the popular kids that always had a boyfriend so when this perfect man said he loved me I sank all my devotion and trust and energy into him and basked in that feeling of finally being perfect and lovable. So of course poly came as quite a shock and was (is? lol - getting better) quite difficult. So for my personal life I think I did make him into an idol, he was my comfort and my safety. I didn't really pursue a relationship with God, I chased after things that would satisfy my flesh in trying to keep Slumber loving me. Silly, right? Hubby totes loves me. But I was building him to be the everything in my life and my only source for comfort and safety. I mean he still is the like the best, and I still have comfort and safety in him, but now I learning to get my peace in God, trusting God. God leading my husband, God being my ultimate comfort, and my strong tower. Slumberfreeze doesn't need to love me alone (I'm trying to get here lol!), because the God of all creation does. And that is more than enough. That is what I am trying to build onto, not the sand that I had been building on before.
So it's all very jumbly in my head but I think that maybe it's something that can't necessarily be measured for all women where the line is for making your husband an idol ( except for the bowing down and worshiping for salvation, I think we all get that is totes idolatry lol)
Rainy, you are awesome! What a wise woman you are.
Oh man...
I had written a long response to Littles, Julie, and Rainy and it disappeared. I'll try a condensed version.
I understand now the wife that WLW described. I get that trying to be the best wife with the intention of keeping him to yourself would be a manipulative motive. I also understand the wife Julie described wanting the "picture perfect" Christian life and having PM rock her world. I also see how Rainy would've wanted to be the best wife so she would never again feel lonely, unloved, and insecure. But I can't personally relate to these.
Littles, I totally get the overthinking thing. But I am verrrrrry wary of "feelings." I grew up Pentecostal which means "feelings" were the sum total of the Christian experience. I mistrust the concept 100% now. I also read somewhere that the heart is deceptively wicked above all else and who can know it. The lack of "feelings" is what starts me down this way of thinking in the first place. "I don't feel God, so maybe I focus too much time and energy on learning how to be a good wife instead of seeking Him first...."
Julie, I have a hard time with this:
) a "commitment and love" to God. Is that backwards? Is God looking down on me and shaking His head?
I'm sure I forgot a bunch from my transient first attempt. Oh well. The kids are bouncing off the walls at this point.
I had written a long response to Littles, Julie, and Rainy and it disappeared. I'll try a condensed version.
I understand now the wife that WLW described. I get that trying to be the best wife with the intention of keeping him to yourself would be a manipulative motive. I also understand the wife Julie described wanting the "picture perfect" Christian life and having PM rock her world. I also see how Rainy would've wanted to be the best wife so she would never again feel lonely, unloved, and insecure. But I can't personally relate to these.
Littles, I totally get the overthinking thing. But I am verrrrrry wary of "feelings." I grew up Pentecostal which means "feelings" were the sum total of the Christian experience. I mistrust the concept 100% now. I also read somewhere that the heart is deceptively wicked above all else and who can know it.
The lack of "feelings" is what starts me down this way of thinking in the first place. "I don't feel God, so maybe I focus too much time and energy on learning how to be a good wife instead of seeking Him first...."Julie, I have a hard time with this:
Is not becoming a good wife one of the most important, if not the most important (for married women) truths of our Savior? Or maybe the difference is you say "out of a need within us"... I'm not sure what that means, but I can kinda see you're referencing a selfish, carnal need. ? Well, I have a need within me to be a good wife....because I know it's the right thing to do.
See, I don't think I have a "commitment and love" to my God that defines who I am. I have a commitment to my husband. And he has (I hope
) a "commitment and love" to God. Is that backwards? Is God looking down on me and shaking His head? I'm sure I forgot a bunch from my transient first attempt. Oh well. The kids are bouncing off the walls at this point.
I've been trying to think about this and honestly I am sorry that your longer reply disappeared, because I am not quite sure exactly what you are saying...
From this quote I would say that I don't think God is looking down on you shaking His head, but I think that God does desire that a relationship between you and Him that does define you. As far as I understand, the whole reason for marriage is to paint a picture of how our relationship should be with the Lord, and if we are to be a good wife to our earthly husband, that is the picture that the Lord desires for us to have with Him. So if you have that with your husband, but not with God then I think that that is something that the Lord would like you pray about and begin making steps to draw nearer and nearer to Him. Does that make sense? Am I even in the neighborhood of what you are saying?
See, I don't think I have a "commitment and love" to my God that defines who I am. I have a commitment to my husband. And he has (I hope
From this quote I would say that I don't think God is looking down on you shaking His head, but I think that God does desire that a relationship between you and Him that does define you. As far as I understand, the whole reason for marriage is to paint a picture of how our relationship should be with the Lord, and if we are to be a good wife to our earthly husband, that is the picture that the Lord desires for us to have with Him. So if you have that with your husband, but not with God then I think that that is something that the Lord would like you pray about and begin making steps to draw nearer and nearer to Him. Does that make sense? Am I even in the neighborhood of what you are saying?
Thank you, Rainy. I do really appreciate everyone's thoughts.
Further up I said I don't know what a "relationship" with God looks like as an adult. And later I said I do not go by "feelings." So, what does "relationship" with God entail? To me, I see love demonstrated through obedience everywhere in scripture. And what's the primary directive given to wives? Submit to your husbands. That's where I'm at right now. What am I missing?
I would think that that may be different for everybody. I might be wrong. For me, I know my relationship with YHWH is good when I can hear Him. I get dreams and visions and words and verses etc. But that's just a small part of it. I think obedience and doing His will is more important than that, or at least runs alongside it.
Hebrews 11, we all know this chapter, it's the faith chapter. What is faith? What did people do to show their faith? They did what was asked of them, and they did what was right, and so it was credited to them as righteousness.
And the Proverbs 31 wife: She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue; Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
This is the woman that is the epitome of all a wife should be. She's busy! She's working hard for her family, for her husband. She's teaching faithful instructions to her household, and she fears the Lord.
It doesn't say anything in that passage about her making sure to sit down and have half an hour of quiet meditation time each day to pray or read the bible, lol. Or about YHWH speaking to her.
But, like I said, I know when my relationship with Him is healthy, and it does involve more than just obedience for me personally.
This post has been absolutely a blessing to me!! I love hearing all the different thoughts on this one. Thank you, @windblown for bringing this up!
Let me say that I know without a shadow of a doubt that I'm the wife that put too much emphasis in my relationship with my husband and not enough on my relationship with God. That's why PM has been so jarring for me, really. And also a huge blessing (more on that later).
Julie, this was/is me. I won't get into just how much it was (and still is, to a certain degree) but it's why PM rocked my world. I found my value in my husband and him alone.
Where I'm at now... I think it just has to be a balance. I know that seems like such a simple thing to say. But, it starts with me remembering WHY I'm supposed to love, obey, respect my husband... Is it all based on because I was born a girl, he was born a boy, we grew up and got married? No, I love him the way I do because God wants me to. If I didn't love God FIRST and MOST, why would I need to idolize my husband (because I do. Really.)? Is it because it makes me feel good or I want something out of it? Then, that's probably the wrong reason. If I'm doing it because God asks it, no DEMANDS it of me--then I think I'm okay. If I'm doing it only because my husband tells me to, then I'm still not COMPLETELY doing it for the right reasons.
I believe that just because I'm a married woman, God isn't any less interested in me being in a love-relationship (thank you, "Experiencing God") with him. I can't get to heaven on my husband's coattails. Even though my husband is responsible for me in SO many areas, I don't believe that he's my way to heaven. But, serving him, because God asks, is one of the ways I show my love for God. My Savior. The one who entrusted me to my husband.
I've often lost sight of this. I've put my husband ABOVE God at times. And, now that my perspective has changed, I can HONESTLY tell you--I've NEVER been closer to my Father. And you know what else? I've been a servant to my husband in ways that I never would have before. Growing with Christ has only made me want to be a better wife. It's not supposed to be the other way around. Well, as far as I can see it, anyway.
Let me say that I know without a shadow of a doubt that I'm the wife that put too much emphasis in my relationship with my husband and not enough on my relationship with God. That's why PM has been so jarring for me, really. And also a huge blessing (more on that later).
Julie, this was/is me. I won't get into just how much it was (and still is, to a certain degree) but it's why PM rocked my world. I found my value in my husband and him alone.
Where I'm at now... I think it just has to be a balance. I know that seems like such a simple thing to say. But, it starts with me remembering WHY I'm supposed to love, obey, respect my husband... Is it all based on because I was born a girl, he was born a boy, we grew up and got married? No, I love him the way I do because God wants me to. If I didn't love God FIRST and MOST, why would I need to idolize my husband (because I do. Really.)? Is it because it makes me feel good or I want something out of it? Then, that's probably the wrong reason. If I'm doing it because God asks it, no DEMANDS it of me--then I think I'm okay.
If I'm doing it only because my husband tells me to, then I'm still not COMPLETELY doing it for the right reasons.I believe that just because I'm a married woman, God isn't any less interested in me being in a love-relationship (thank you, "Experiencing God") with him. I can't get to heaven on my husband's coattails. Even though my husband is responsible for me in SO many areas, I don't believe that he's my way to heaven. But, serving him, because God asks, is one of the ways I show my love for God. My Savior. The one who entrusted me to my husband.
I've often lost sight of this. I've put my husband ABOVE God at times. And, now that my perspective has changed, I can HONESTLY tell you--I've NEVER been closer to my Father. And you know what else? I've been a servant to my husband in ways that I never would have before. Growing with Christ has only made me want to be a better wife. It's not supposed to be the other way around. Well, as far as I can see it, anyway.
Which is...?
Interesting that you mentioned this. It was the exact same comment that spurred the conversations years ago at this womens' group I referenced in my OP.
Someone had said, "the closer I get to God, the closer I get to my husband." To which I replied that was in fact the exact opposite for me, that the closer I get to my husband, the closer I get to God. And that's when the "be careful you don't make your husband your idol" comment was made.
I've been following this excellent post, and it took me a few days to formulate an articulate response to such a great question. Windblown, you seem like such a strong woman whom knows herself very well Once in awhile another sister in Christ will just say something that strikes a cord and makes you ponder--especially if you respect this sister. I don't believe our fellow Christian sisters intend to say things to hurt us or cause us to pause intentionally, but sometimes they just don't understand the full picture of our hearts or minds for only God knows these things. I think it is wonderful how you feel closer to God through your strong relationship with your husband. It is very hard for women or men to be totally focused on God once they marry. That is why St. Paul said in 1 Corinthians it was better to stay single because you have more time to devote to God. Thank God for His grace through our faith in Jesus Christ, because none of us will ever be able to be in perfect obedience to Him. If being closer to your husband draws you closer to God, then what is the harm in that? I just think we have to keep pursuing God having a personal relationship with him, so we don't loose our minds when He calls our husbands to His heavenly home.
Good point. So what does "personal relationship" look like for you?