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Meat Sexual Duties & Children

I leave for 36 hours and this post blows up from 3 to 13 pages?

Thank you @Foxlily and @FollowingHim for at least trying to address the actual topic. Same to anyone else I missed in the hubub.

Beautiful post @Sonshine. That is what it sounds like when a wife wants to please her man and has Godly repentance. We all slip up from time to time, what matters is how we deal with it. He failed to lead, she failed to follow but they both own up to their failures and move forward rather than try and justify their present condition.

There is a very big spiritual component here you all are missing. I don't know if it's the elephant in the room or no one told you it exists so you can't see it. I'm not surprised, today's church does not teach it and our culture encourages the opposite.

Namely...the scriptures condemn sloth and gluttony.

Now there can be mitigating factors such as pregnancy or health problems which may be unrelated to sin. But they are no excuse for not putting in the work to get healthy again. And a lot of those health problems have their source in gluttony or not taking care of our temple by eating/injecting junk. It is also common for women to gain more weight in pregnancy than is warranted because they overeat and stop exercising (if they ever exercised to begin with).

It is important to be honest with yourself about where you are and how you got there. Because with repentance comes healing and the help of the Holy Spirit.

Let's be frank: most people, men and women, are just plain weak. Even if they're skinny, rarely do they have much strength. With our modern lifestyle it takes determined exercise to achieve and maintain a healthy body. And I'm not telling you anything the CDC hasn't been screaming at the obstinate American public about for decades. I strongly oppose conventional medicine, but doctors are warranted in their repeated complaints about the unwillingness of patients to loose weight and get healthy.

Taking drugs is a quick fix that ignores both the root causes (physical and spiritual) and the unforeseen side effects down the road. Although I do understand that husbands who don't yet have control of their household may have an easier time getting her on board with a pill. It's still not a long term solution.

Oh, and man is the head of his house. He doesn't need a bible verse to justify wanting his wife to stay healthy and physically attractive. It is enough that it pleases him she does so. So too should he set a good example. It is no coincidence that many couples are very similar to each other with respect to how overweight they are. Just like the typical man wants a skinny tight wife so too does the typical wife a strong muscly man. Oh sure he'll say he finds you attractive as you are, and he does, but he'll find you much more attractive when you're in shape. Oh sure she may say she finds you attractive as you are. But she'll swoon so hard for you with muscles. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
 
I leave for 36 hours and this post blows up from 3 to 13 pages?

Thank you @Foxlily and @FollowingHim for at least trying to address the actual topic. Same to anyone else I missed in the hubub.

Beautiful post @Sonshine. That is what it sounds like when a wife wants to please her man and has Godly repentance. We all slip up from time to time, what matters is how we deal with it. He failed to lead, she failed to follow but they both own up to their failures and move forward rather than try and justify their present condition.

There is a very big spiritual component here you all are missing. I don't know if it's the elephant in the room or no one told you it exists so you can't see it. I'm not surprised, today's church does not teach it and our culture encourages the opposite.

Namely...the scriptures condemn sloth and gluttony.

Now there can be mitigating factors such as pregnancy or health problems which may be unrelated to sin. But they are no excuse for not putting in the work to get healthy again. And a lot of those health problems have their source in gluttony or not taking care of our temple by eating/injecting junk. It is also common for women to gain more weight in pregnancy than is warranted because they overeat and stop exercising (if they ever exercised to begin with).

It is important to be honest with yourself about where you are and how you got there. Because with repentance comes healing and the help of the Holy Spirit.

Let's be frank: most people, men and women, are just plain weak. Even if they're skinny, rarely do they have much strength. With our modern lifestyle it takes determined exercise to achieve and maintain a healthy body. And I'm not telling you anything the CDC hasn't been screaming at the obstinate American public about for decades. I strongly oppose conventional medicine, but doctors are warranted in their repeated complaints about the unwillingness of patients to loose weight and get healthy.

Taking drugs is a quick fix that ignores both the root causes (physical and spiritual) and the unforeseen side effects down the road. Although I do understand that husbands who don't yet have control of their household may have an easier time getting her on board with a pill. It's still not a long term solution.

Oh, and man is the head of his house. He doesn't need a bible verse to justify wanting his wife to stay healthy and physically attractive. It is enough that it pleases him she does so. So too should he set a good example. It is no coincidence that many couples are very similar to each other with respect to how overweight they are. Just like the typical man wants a skinny tight wife so too does the typical wife a strong muscly man. Oh sure he'll say he finds you attractive as you are, and he does, but he'll find you much more attractive when you're in shape. Oh sure she may say she finds you attractive as you are. But she'll swoon so hard for you with muscles. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
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Round is a shape:p :rolleyes:

LOL

So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet, "I will open my mouth in memes, I will utter things hidden since the foundation of the world"

Cool, I never thought about memes as modern day parables. But they kind of are so it fts!

'Blessed are the meme makers' comes to mind. That's not as accurate as yours. But something seems right; a lot of the beatitudes remind me of our memetic warriors.
 
The both of you are either working on being more healthy, or you are not working on being more healthy.

I’m not accepting any excuse making either. ;)
Seriously, with age those health issues build up and the healthier partner often has to sacrifice a great share of their life caring for the person that didn’t give a crap about their health in their earlier years. How fair is that?
How loving is that?
The body belonging to the other instruction goes way deeper than just sex.
Exactly the position my husband is in with his FW...it just about destroyed him before we became close. Heartbreaking...
 
The most important scriptural principle to remember here is contentment. We must be content with what we have. We must be thankful for what God has given us. This is an overarching principle that covers all aspects of life - 1 Timothy 6:6, Proverbs 14:30, Philippians 4:11, just to name a few. Contentment is a basic, fundamental character trait that we must learn.

Proverbs 5:18 applies this principle to marriage - be content with your wife, rejoice in her, enjoy her. And if you are content with her, and find ways to enjoy her, then you will not be tempted to infidelity. On the other hand, if you do NOT find contentment with her, you will be greatly tempted by other women. This can be dealt with positively, by marrying someone else, but can alternatively lead to sin. It is therefore dangerous to direct your sexual fantasies towards a hypothetical second woman, because it could cause you to jump into bed with the wrong one too rapidly (even the best men are susceptible to sexual temptation). Direct your sexual fantasies back to your wife, and you will then be able to calmly and carefully consider a second marriage with less risk of jumping into it to satisfy unsatisfied lust.

I have known Sarah for over 15 years, most of which we have been married. Over that time, her weight has fluctuated greatly for various reasons, including health ones - I can sympathise with your wife having thyroid problems. The entire time, I have found her very attractive. Do I have preferences in her weight? Yes, because I want her to be healthy. But I am fundamentally attracted to her, as a person. Her personality causes me to be attracted to her body. In fact, I was attracted to her personality before I was attracted to her physically. It is the fact that she is Sarah that makes her attractive to me. Physical form is just the icing on the cake (and I like the icing too, but the cake tastes great even if the icing is imperfect).

You need to learn to enjoy what you have. While overweight, she'll have awesome breasts. While slim, she'll have an awesome waist. Overweight there's padding over the bones (cushioning in intimacy), slim she's easy to carry. There's something to enjoy in every situation.

Obviously, health is important. @Daniel DeLuca, the point others are making is that you are looking at the superficial final symptom of poor health (obesity), and trying to attack that symptom (with drugs). Others are suggesting that a more holistic view of health would be far more beneficial - hence suggestions about removing sugar from your diets etc. These are positive, loving suggestions from people who have been where you are and have worked through it. They are trying to help you learn from their experiences, and their mistakes. Everything is being said in love - but you are struggling to perceive it that way for emotional reasons. The more you struggle to perceive it, the more strongly people speak, culminating in hyperbole like "do you want to kill her" being used to emphasise an opinion that what you are doing is unhealthy. Such statements are simply an attempt to get you to listen to what is being said. They are not an accusation of actual evil intent.

Calm down. If you need to leave the conversation to do that, then leave the conversation until you're calm.

Maybe pull off your wife's clothes and find some detail that you can really, really rejoice in for a while...
Wisest post on this thread thus far...
 
Did the Philippian church provide Paul with a wife? He was talking about needs. Was that one of the needs he was referring to? If not, why did you use Phil 4:11? Why did you use I Tim 6:6 at all? I'll wait.
 
Proverbs 14:30
KJV: A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.
ESV: A tranquil heart gives life to the flesh, but envy makes the bones rot.
NASB: A tranquil heart is life to the body, But passion is rottenness to the bones.

A tranquil heart is a contented heart.
The interpretation "tranquil" is fair because this is a poetic parallelism. The second part of the statement has either the same or the opposite meaning to the first part, like most poetry in scripture. The heart has the opposite state to envy - ie it is not envious or upset, but rather peaceful, tranquil, contented.

But it's not about this one verse. My point was building on the fact that contentedness is a common theme throughout scripture. I cited a few verses that are related to this general theme, only by way of illustration - I thought that the concept of contentedness and satisfaction with what God has given us just goes without saying and didn't need a full scriptural exposition, it's basic milk I was accepting as obvious and then discussing from. If I need to actually prove this point from scripture I'd take a different and more comprehensive approach than throwing out a few related citations.
OK, so you substituted "contented" for "tranquil", which none of the translations I have found, have done. What makes you so convinced that you should substitute that adjective, and not the verb "envy" for something like the word, "restless"? Looking at scripture4all.org, it doesn't look like either of them should be replaced, but I see one of the translations you used, uses the word, "passion". That seems far more fitting!
 
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I am pleased to hear this.

Here however, behind her back (I assume she is not reading this?) you are telling us that you find her unattractive. This is negative talk that she would find extremely painful to read if she does come across it. Also, if this is truly your attitude, she cannot fail to see it, even if you use other words to her. I believe you will find valid points in my recent posts, if you took the time to sift through them and consider whether some parts are applicable, at least in part, rather than rejecting them out-of-hand.

The best piece of advice my wife and I were given pre-marriage, was to not talk negatively about each other behind each other's backs. To be positive and affirming even when the other was not there.
You are reading something into what I have said. I never said that I find HER unattractive. I said that I find CELLULITE unattractive. Good GRIEF!!!!
 
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I like holistic, natural stuff, until they start gouging me for money, especially in the form of book sales, or when they come at me in the form of some new MLM, that is supposed to make me rich beyond my wildest imaginations! Also, I have enough sense to stop repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result! I also have enough sense to go back to what has been tried and HAS worked, time and time again!
 
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Phil 4:10-19
10 I rejoiced greatly in the Lord that at last you renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it.
11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

14 Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. 15 Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only; 16 for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. 17 Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. 18 I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. 19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.
 
I Tim 6:3-11
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Final Charge to Timothy
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
 
I definitely got the impression that you find your wife unattractive and have told her so in so many words and these statements have been the impetus to get her to try to change that.
Well you have the wrong impression then, my friend. This is not about my wife anyway! This is about whether a man should be allowed to have standards.
 
Well you have the wrong impression then, my friend. This is not about my wife anyway! This is about whether a man should be allowed to have standards.
I’m not even gonna take the time to go back thru this thread to quote you. Your posts are why I have that impression.

And for what its worth, yes, I do believe that men are supposed to set the standard in their house. Personally, I think that healthy is a great standard. Attractive is a horrible standard. Kindness is a great standard, selfishness is a horrible standard. When your primary motive is for their best, rather than your personal satisfaction, then you are building your house rather than tearing it down.

And men aren’t allowed to have standards. Thats a contradictory statement. Men set standards. Those who complain because they are getting pushback are telling on themselves.

FWIW, I can tell that you are making strides in the right direction. That’s great! But you complain about the process and the hard work its taking or that things aren’t transforming as quickly as you’d like. That’s not so great.

Its a process and you gotta go thru the process. Shortcuts are a recipe for getting further behind. Just be grateful that you have someone to go thru the process with you. Lots of guys and gals that don’t.
 
Wait a minute! You think attractive is a horrible standard? I'm sure you meant to say "physically attractive", but I want to make sure.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that I complain about the process or the hard work. I am enjoying the process! I wasn't COMPLAINING about it taking too long. I was stating a FACT, that there was progress, and then regress, using that holistic all natural approach. It was always, one step forward, two steps back. I am skeptical that @Sonshine will be able to do this without some help, but that is just based on personal experience, and the failure rate statistics of dieting and exercise alone. It was out of concern for her situation, that I posted my recommendation. The only thing I have a complaint about, is the fact that you and others are ceaselessly disparaging my character and reputation, for any and every little thing you find disagreement with, and misrepresenting the things that I posted, all the while, totally ignoring the valid points I have made in this thread.

We tried that so-called process, and IT was a recipe for getting further behind. I have recognized that, and have decided we need to go in a direction that I KNOW works. How you can interpret that as complaining, boggles the mind!
 
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And for what its worth, yes, I do believe that men are supposed to set the standard in their house. Personally, I think that healthy is a great standard. Attractive is a horrible standard. Kindness is a great standard, selfishness is a horrible standard. When your primary motive is for their best, rather than your personal satisfaction, then you are building your house rather than tearing it down.
And men aren’t allowed to have standards. Thats a contradictory statement. Men set standards. Those who complain because they are getting pushback are telling on themselves.
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Wow, that’s great insight. Something I’ll be writing down for ‘keepsake’.
 
Oh! And the strides that I have made, I can attribute to the suggestions made in those links that @eye4them posted in another thread, and from private conversations I have had with someone on BF as well, but I recall taking a lot of flack from some of the BFers here for embracing those concepts.
 
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