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lost tribe
- Thread starter ginger2
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It's a nice question; apparently Joseph Smith thought some Jews had left Egypt before the Exodus and settled in the Americas. He had a very creative take on it; they spoke "reformed Egyptian" some mishmash between Egyptian and Hebrew. The language thing certainly seems plausible as we actually find some Egyptian words made their way into Biblical Hebrew as loan words, the gabia "goblet" used by Joseph the righteous, comes to mind.
DNA - Genetics
There are certain shared ancestries that come out in DNA tests among Jewish persons and Arabs; does anyone know of any similarities between Jews and native Americans or between Arabs an Native Americans?
Since Jews today are mostly from Judah and Levi the Arab-native American connection could prove fruitful in investigating this idea; I'm thinking shared ancestry via Abraham since we don't have DNA samples from the lost tribes. I know things are much less rock-solid than companies present them; for example I have a Sephardic (Spanish Jewish) friend who took a DNA test and since he's not a Levi the test reported back that he has French and Spanish ancestry (the Sephardic Jews intermarried at a higher rate than the Azhkenazi or other Jewish groups, so their DNA is not distinct enough, unless they are from a Levi family, for the current state of technology to differentiate). He did, however, have indicators of shared ancestry with Arabs (as would be expected). One area I think could be quite fruitful is to get DNA samples from the half-tribe of Menasheh which has been found in India and largely relocated to Israel. I also half-expect to find similarities between Manesheh and the Romani.
I thought there had been genetic confirmation of the hypothesis that native Americans are Asians (confirming the notion they had crossed over the land bridge from Russia to Alaska during the last ice age). The generally espoused time frame of this crossing is before Abraham was called out; though I tend to distrust dating methods used in the soft sciences. If this were the case you could still have "the Joseph Smith" connection which doesn't claim ALL Native Americans are Israelis but only a sub-set.
sorry if I rambled a bit; just thinking through your post.
Check out DNA Consultants (Donald Yates). They have a Facebook page as well as a website. In short, yes there is a connection. Especially with the Cherokee, and he makes a strong case that Sequoia was a crypto Jew. Another great resource is Steven Collins and his e-book "The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel...Found!". The Mormons may have a tiny bit right...but they twisted it...and added a lot of nonsense.
There is plenty of proof that Israelis traveled the world during the time of kings David and Solomon.
Words and customs are shared between some of the Indian tribes and the Jews, I have no doubt that DNA is also.
Words and customs are shared between some of the Indian tribes and the Jews, I have no doubt that DNA is also.
Which lost tribe do you speak of?
There also seems to be some paleo Hebrew inscriptions in rocks across North America. Joe Smith may have gotten the overall theory correct in that Hebrew tribes travelled here years ago, but I believe he was wrong in the spiritual details and extra biblical writings he developed in conjunction with that theory.
@ginger2 there are actually 10 lost tribes, but God promises to recover them all to their inheritance and lineage... He is keeping track.
Scripture relates that a small percent of the northern kingdom moved south into Judah and were assimilated, but the remainder were exiled by the Assyrians or left voluntarily prior to the Assyrian invasion.. missing tribes include Reuben, parts of Simeon (though they were mostly absorbed by Judah ), Dan, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulon, Ephraim, Manasseh, and Naphtali.
Scripture teaches that the house of Jacob was divided, even before they left Egypt, into the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Only under David did they functionas a unit. They wrestled under Saul and Solomon subjugated all but Judah....
The Son of David will gather, restore, and bring order and unity to all 13 tribes...
Scripture relates that a small percent of the northern kingdom moved south into Judah and were assimilated, but the remainder were exiled by the Assyrians or left voluntarily prior to the Assyrian invasion.. missing tribes include Reuben, parts of Simeon (though they were mostly absorbed by Judah ), Dan, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulon, Ephraim, Manasseh, and Naphtali.
Scripture teaches that the house of Jacob was divided, even before they left Egypt, into the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Only under David did they functionas a unit. They wrestled under Saul and Solomon subjugated all but Judah....
The Son of David will gather, restore, and bring order and unity to all 13 tribes...
So there's some interesting talk about Cherokee and other possibilities.
I just want to point out that while there may have been some Israelis who reached the Americas in ancient times as @Mojo speculates; this would at most make a certain native American tribe, or subtribe Jews or of Jewish ancestry; it would not make them a lost tribe unless it was specifically members from one of the now lost tribes who settled.
I just want to point out that while there may have been some Israelis who reached the Americas in ancient times as @Mojo speculates; this would at most make a certain native American tribe, or subtribe Jews or of Jewish ancestry; it would not make them a lost tribe unless it was specifically members from one of the now lost tribes who settled.
The division actually happened under Solomon's son. They were separate tribes united as a nation under Moses and up through Soloman. After that they were divided with different futures prophesied for the two "Houses" of Israel.
To be completely accurate, Israeli is a term that relates to the modern state and its inhabitants. It is incorrect to apply it to the Israelites of the former times. Just like it is incorrect to call Abraham a Jew, a term that was used of the descendants of his great grandson and also of the people dwelling in Judea after the Babylonian exile.
He is certainly keeping track.
He has said that the seed of Israel will be a nation before Him forever. But it is also written that after Shiloh be come, the people would be gathered to him. People looking for lost tribes will never find them. They were never lost. They have been sown throughout all the earth by YHWH and as He has spoken, their descendants will "inherit the nations."We are just waiting for the sons of God to be revealed in His time.
it's the same people so I'm with @steve on this. It's merely an issue of changing linguistics, nobody would say today they are a "Texas-ite." Isrealite is just an older English way of saying Israeli. I for one will continue to use the modern English word "Israeli" especially since the term "Israelite" I find useful as a theological category. For example, as of late I'm thinking that those who are born Gentile but have been grafted in and joined Israel and now keep the Torah may be referred to as "modern Israelites" or something like this (since it's confusing to say the are "Israel" due to the modern state).
Already Menasheh has been found!.
He is certainly keeping track.
We are just waiting for the sons of God to be revealed in His time.
Check out http://www.bneimenashe.com/
It's so cool that in our lives one of the lost tribes has been found!
Exciting.
I don't share your excitement. They may well be descendants of Menasah, but that does not mean that they alone represent that tribe.
Jews may be a portion of Judah, but certainly a portion of Judah also became Christian and then in giving faith in Christ supreme importance no longer felt their affiliation with a tribe was of ultimate significance. Paul said everything was dung compared...and he knew what tribe he was from.
Actually, ite is a suffix that means a descendant of....so an Israelite is a descendant of Israel the man. The land of Israel was named after the people, not the other way around. Without common definitions words are meaningless.
Judeans would have been inhabitants of Judea. An Israelite would be a literal descendant, an Israeli on the other hand is someone connected to the modern state. Maybe the same people (I have scriptural reasons to doubt)...but it does not mean the same thing!
Might want to read Ezekiel 23 again specifically verse 3
Amen to that
Since this realative to this topic.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/...-descendants-of-the-israelite-tribe-of-simeon
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5248902,00.html
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/...-descendants-of-the-israelite-tribe-of-simeon
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5248902,00.html
I read it. Ezekiel was a prophet, not writing literal history there. Like this passage. Ezekiel 16 King James Version (KJV). 16 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
I'm sure the people of that day didn't get confused by this kind of illustrative speech/parables.
Based on that logic we could dismiss out of hand anything said by a prophet as being "not literal" whenever it doesn't fit our (usually man made) theology. This is churchianity 101.
Ezekiel 23:3 is part of an explanation of how Yah viewed the nation... I agree they weren't politically separated until later but Yah views them as 2 separate women all the way back in Egypt.
Menasheh had been lost; now they are found. If you want to squeeze defeat from victory by saying, "well there may be other people with Menasheh blood out there whom we have not found" I suppose you can do that but it does not diminish how amazing it is that in our lifetimes, a large representation of this formerly entirely lost half-tribe, has been found. it's another proof how Hashem has preserved His promises!
In addition, this gives us tools for locating other lost tribes (and members of Menasheh).
For example, I have long suspected that the Romani may be remnants of a lost tribe. After learning from @Nikud that their language has ties to Sanskrit it provides a linguistic hint that perhaps they are either also from Menasheh or another tribe which settled near Menasheh in India.
As the quality of DNA databases and research increase having samples from Menasheh can open up additional avenues for discovery. Previously we've been stuck with only the remnant of Judah and Levi (possibly with Benjamin and Shimon absorbed), now to have a whole new group to base research and discoveries from.
We live in a time where the Biblical nation of Israel has been reborn, the dead language of Hebrew has been resurrected, and a lost half tribe has been found!
Heck yeah I'm excited about it.
From the article.
"In North East India, in the land mass that lies between Myanmar (formerly Burma) and Bangladesh, there lives a small group of people who have been practicing Judaism for more than 30 years."
Would they be bringing them to Israel if they were Christians, or lumping them in with the British Israelites and Black Israelites?
Wrong search parameters won't find the right thing. Looking for tribes practicing Judaism won't find any Israelites that are in the new covenant.
"In North East India, in the land mass that lies between Myanmar (formerly Burma) and Bangladesh, there lives a small group of people who have been practicing Judaism for more than 30 years."
Would they be bringing them to Israel if they were Christians, or lumping them in with the British Israelites and Black Israelites?
Wrong search parameters won't find the right thing. Looking for tribes practicing Judaism won't find any Israelites that are in the new covenant.
I haven't read that article, but it is important to understand that author's have bias, audiences have bias, and authors write to audience bias.... Further, thus will ultimately be God's work, however, He uses men to carry it out. That leads to flawed statements and flawed understandings.
The point, looking at this picture, to best understand what is unfolding, one needs to not focus on specific points and instead watch a larger picture as it comes into focus... sort of like those pieces of art that are millions of dots of color that don't look like a lion, or ship, or whatever it is meant to be. Focus past it and the image suddenly pops in. Focus on a detail and you see nothing but dots...
@IshChayil indeed, somevery interesting finds in Afghanistan and Pakistan recently w Muslim tribes that trace lineage and custom directly into Biblical or Judaic practice. ..