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Burden Unable to Bear

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Nobody here says you "have to keep" it.

Just that there are blessings for trying, and curses for rebellion. Choose.
I'm glad you clarified. I may be dense, but that sure hasn't been the sentiment I've picked up from reading various posts throughout. That misunderstanding could be causing a lot of confusion if it is the same for others.

Just to be painfully transparent, the curses you are espousing are wholly in flesh and wouldn't include eternal damnation, would they?
 
Just to be painfully transparent, the curses you are espousing are wholly in flesh and wouldn't include eternal damnation, would they?
The only entity I see being willing to put words in His mouth and claim to decide that for Him is the Whore Church. (They also seem to enjoy claiming to be His One, True, and ONLY Bride, and if you don't submit to them - guess where you go?)

(Personally, I think the answer's pretty clear. He laid it out in places like Lev. 26 and Deut. 28. But, again, I still contend that His Word doesn't change, and has been consistent all along, anyway.)

So I just encourage folks here with "eyes to see," again, to do what I always have - be like the Bereans, read His Word for yourself, and make up your own mind. After all, it's YOUR choice.
 
I know what I think, and thus what I believe. But I said what I teach. ANYTHING else is eisegesis. Read it - if it's NOT clear, I won't change the text.





PS> Don't you GET it? So much of what it says is SO clear. People deny what it so clearly SAYS! Why make up things and force-fit them? Just READ it.
 
Amen. There are numerous benefits to following the Law, and a man would be wise to follow those parts he understands, but we are no longer bound to it.
Okay I guess I am still learning and you and some others have taught me something.
So Incest and beastialty are okay today. Or at least they are fine for non-jews because gentiles are not bound by the laws.

Thank you for the insight.

End sarcasm
 
Okay I guess I am still learning and you and some others have taught me something.
So Incest and beastialty are okay today. Or at least they are fine for non-jews because gentiles are not bound by the laws.

Thank you for the insight.

End sarcasm
You meant that for evil, but let me turn it to good. Listen to me. Only man ranks wickedness in severity. We do this based on perceived impact, cultural adoption, and other metrics, i.e. feelings. God has said that if a man breaks even the slightest law, he is guilty of breaking the whole thing. What is repugnant or what is minuscule in your eyes matters not in terms of guilt and separation from God. Incest and bestiality are as damnable as working on the sabbath and lying to get out of a ticket.

Who then can be saved? All have sin and fall short of the glory of God. Praise be to God, He has sacrificed Himself for us and washed us with His blood to purify us and cleanse us of our iniquity. And that is it. Those who accept this believe in Him and will be saved. He gives faith to all who believe, and this faith is the evidence and the hope that sustains them until the end of their days in earth. This salvation, this freedom, this gospel is not just for the Gentiles. The Jews likewise were freed from their bondage, those who believed.

The Law is of earth and still retains its significance in that it lays out the way to walk in righteousness for those who are in earth. The blessings and curses that accompany it will still affect us in earth (for instance, you can still spawn a mighty STD that rages across the world if you engage in bestiality, and you can pick it up inadvertently if you don't hate even the clothing of those who do those things). But the beauty of the message is that, even if you do such a thing, or even if you lie to get out of a speeding ticket, His blood is no less powerful to redeem your soul. You might suffer consequences in earth, but your guilt, which would have separated you from His presence, is gone.

But, only for those who have accepted that gift and put their faith in Him rather than in the Law. If you discard His gift and put your faith in that Law, there is no redemption for you. If you don't know whether or not following the Law can save you, or if breaking the Law can damn you, then you are lost and in darkness and should be pitied and patiently and diligently won over because the time is short. Jesus is the only way, and His yoke is easy. All you must do is believe and accept what He has done. Accept that your righteousness is filthy rags, turn your back on that idolatry, and accept the faith that God is faithful to give to those who ask Him.

Edit: it's too easy for that last sentence to trip you, and I can already imagine a few furiously typing. The idolatry I refer to is faith in the Law. I am not calling it idolatry to observe the Law, only so long as you recognize it is powerless to save. I, too, follow the Law so far as I understand it. It is not a bad thing. In fact, it is marvelous to study and to understand the "why" that God has hidden for us to discover, and it is beneficial to follow.
 
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If you discard His gift and put your faith in that Law, there is no redemption for you.
Sorry, but silly. Only in part because 'that Law' is a lousy rendering of His instruction.

If you do things that are in VIOLATION of His Instruction* - you run the risk of death. Especially now that we are seeing so many well-deserved curses visited upon a nation and world that literally HATES Him, and despises His Word.

Example: Like it or not, eating pig and shellfish cause massive, demonstrable health problems, and damage to your Yah-given immune system. In a world where WHO has just promised that the NEXT plandemic is already set for deployment, that's quite frankly a reckless risk. (Deut. 28:60-61. And look at Isaiah 66:3-4, then v 17. Note that pig is 'more unclean' than mouse.)

The "salvation issue," I contend, is separate from the OBVIOUS. If you worship "another jesus, whom we have not preached," as Paul warned (and he was right, of course) - the RISK is that those who believe He "changes not" were actually correct, and the blood of a fake accounts for nothing.

OTOH, if you ignore that warning, and somehow believe He didn't mean what He said about "not one yod or tiddle," etc - then it's STILL true that there are curses, which were NEVER "done away with" (anybody: SHOW ME the CLAIM!)...
...that may well shorten your life, and those of your loved ones, as He promised.

For those with some understanding, this is a variant of Pascal's Wager.


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* Some here can still claim it was "unintentional" -- others, not so much.
 
If you don't know whether or not following the Law can save you, or if breaking the Law can damn you, then you are lost and in darkness...



Here's an article that seems apropos that I wrote a dozen years ago this week:

Gravity and ‘the Law’​


Posted on 28 May, 2010 by mark


The second letter from Peter warns (II Peter 3:15-16) that in Paul’s writings are “many things difficult to understand…which are often twisted by the unlearned and untaught…to their own destruction.” Perhaps the most graphic example of that twisting of Biblical teaching occurs with the claim that the “law” has somehow been “done away with”, or even “nailed to the cross”. In other words, we are supposedly no longer “under the law”.

There are so many errors, omissions, and “twistings” of verses taken out-of-context in such claims that many of us who begin to see what Jeremiah meant by saying we had “inherited lies” have difficulty knowing where to begin. For example, depending on the translation, the thing that has really been “nailed” to any tree or execution stake is the “handwriting”, or indictment against all of us for rebellion against Him, rather than the “law” itself. Similarly, there is MUCH discussion in the gospels about what the “law” really is. The Pharisees, who were called “hypocrites” by our Savior for this very reason, tried to teach that their halachah, or “oral traditions” for how we must “walk”, constituted “law”. Yahushua repeatedly pointed out that what they had done by their blindness was to “bind heavy burdens” on men — including things that He had not only not Written, but prohibited (Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, among others). Fallen men have continued to rewrite His commandments ever since.

When He said (Mark 7:7, Matt. 15:6-9, etc) that “by your traditions” you have made the “commandments of YHVH of no effect“, Yahushua was teaching that vital distinction — just as He did when He deliberately violated THEIR many man-made rules for the Sabbath, but NOT His own Word!

This distinction is vital, because by His perfect Sacrifice we are freed from the “CURSE of the Law” (for which the penalty for deliberate rebellion to Him was death), but not the Torah itself.

The Hebrew word “torah” is probably better translated as “teaching and instruction” than it is by the English word “law” anyway. Most people seem to think of a legalistic concept when they hear that word, which is part of the problem. But try this. When Paul uses the word “law” in those letters, replace it with the concept of God’s “instruction”, and see how much more sense it makes. And how much more consistent it is with ALL of Scripture!

But another way to understand this distinction is to observe that scientists may have a better handle on what Paul was teaching about not being “under the law” than lawyers seem to. A “law” to them is not a rule, enforced by policemen with guns, but a statement about the creation that is ALWAYS observed to be TRUE. The “Law of Gravity” is a good case-in-point. It has NEVER been observed to fail, whether one is talking about stars and planets, or Isaac Newton and the apple. Note the distinction between such a “Law”, and something described as a “theory”, which SEEMS plausible (like Relativity) and is subject to further study and observation. (The so-called “Theory of Evolution” is a bad joke in this context, since it persists in SPITE of contrary evidence — at least to the True Believers.)

As a private pilot, I find that a very simple parable serves to bring this point home — especially to those who have ever contemplated learning to fly. I know first-hand that joy of flight, and what it means to “slip the surly bonds of earth”. But does that mean I am somehow no longer “under the Law of Gravity”? Because our knowledge — of physics, of aerodynamics, of propulsion — has increased, does that mean that the “law has been done away with”? To paraphrase Paul – God forbid!

Even though the “schoolmaster” — or flight instructor — who taught me to fly is no longer in the right front seat when I take to the skies, I must not forget the lessons. YHVH’s “teaching and instruction” for how His creation works has not changed! And those who deceive themselves about the consequences of rebellion to His “laws” can certainly find that the “curse” associated with impact from a great height has not been done away with either. To know how to fly, in harmony with His “laws” of physics and aerodynamics, means to have even greater respect for such teaching and instruction, not to conclude that they no longer apply!

Gravity is still real. “Heaven and earth” still exist. It is our knowledge that has increased, not His Word that is diminished. And we still “reap what we sow”.
Do not be deceived. We are thankful to have a Kinsman-Redeemer, Who has paid the price for rebellion to His Word. But so long as heaven and earth still exist, not one yod or tiddle will pass from His “torah”, or “teaching and instruction”. And He gave us His “teachings and instruction” not to burden us, but to bless us.


The above article appeared originally as this month’s column for Crucified Life Ministries.
 
How can we be judged if there is no law to judge us by?

Without law we can do no wrong.
Nobody has said there is no Law. You may want to read that one again.

But, since you bring it up, it would make a great separate thread not here new thread somewhere else to discuss how those who died before the Law was given could still have been counted as wicked. And, on a related note, if we think God's righteousness is really limited to those words or if we are far more wicked than we could possibly ever know because He hasn't revealed Himself fully to us.

Anyways, praise God for His wonderful gift of salvation, without which we live in chains and in darkness and fear, but with it we have freedom, hope, and life!
 
Evil? No. Just making a point.

How can we be judged if there is no law to judge us by?

Without law we can do no wrong.

By the way I was ordained 26 years ago so you don't need to lead me to Yeshua because I'm already there.
We are under the law of Christ. Not the law of Moses. Read your scripture. The law of Moses still is holy and good and profitable for teaching and training in righteousness. If you bear fruit of the Holy Spirit - you’re not under the law of Moses. Fruit of the Holy Spirit fulfills in seeking praise and glory to Lord Jesus and loving your neighbor. Because with such things there is no law. If you practice fruit of the flesh - you could very well be on the wide path and risk Lord Jesus saying - “I never knew you. Depart from you workers of iniquity.”
 
We are under the law of Christ. Not the law of Moses. Read your scripture. The law of Moses still is holy and good and profitable for teaching and training in righteousness. If you bear fruit of the Holy Spirit - you’re not under the law of Moses. Fruit of the Holy Spirit fulfills in seeking praise and glory to Lord Jesus and loving your neighbor. Because with such things there is no law. If you practice fruit of the flesh - you could very well be on the wide path and risk Lord Jesus saying - “I never knew you. Depart from you workers of iniquity.”
Please doo list the laws it
 
We are under the law of Christ. Not the law of Moses. Read your scripture. The law of Moses still is holy and good and profitable for teaching and training in righteousness. If you bear fruit of the Holy Spirit - you’re not under the law of Moses. Fruit of the Holy Spirit fulfills in seeking praise and glory to Lord Jesus and loving your neighbor. Because with such things there is no law. If you practice fruit of the flesh - you could very well be on the wide path and risk Lord Jesus saying - “I never knew you. Depart from you workers of iniquity.”
Please do list the laws of Yeshua that we will be judged by.

I ask you the same questions.
Is insest and beastialty allowed now?
 
Please do list the laws of Yeshua that we will be judged by.

I ask you the same questions.
Is insest and beastialty allowed now?
Beastialty is rebellion against YHWH and Lord Jesus. God made them female and male. A man is to be one flesh with his wife. A man or woman having sex with an animal is in rebellion against the Creator. Therefore you’re violating the first commandment - Love God with all your heart. This is no different than a man having sex with a man. They are in rebellion against Creator’s divine creation, and in danger of entering the lake of fire:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Fruit of the Holy Spirit:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
 
Please doo list the laws it
The new covenant is not about a list of laws that we must follow in order to enter God’s kingdom. That was the mosaic law. The new law is faith, reliance, love, and glorifying Lord Jesus. Once we hear the word of God - repent of our old ways - we can then God willing be reborn by the Spirit. Being reborn can not happen unless you repent and turn to Lord Jesus first. You don’t put new wine in old wine skins. Then you go through a sanctification process (Titus 3:5). A little kid that greatly loves his parents - he’s going to do things to please them. That’s exactly what Jesus says - those that love me keep my commandments. Blessed are those that hear my words and do them. Go through the gospels and parables. Go through the sermon on the mount. It’s not about a list of laws. But the condition of your heart and reason you’re doing those good works - which should be to help glorify Lord Jesus, and out of love for Lord Jesus. Don’t do good works to glorify yourself among men. Or to exalt yourself among men. Or think highly of yourself (I deserve to enter heaven - I'm such a good person). Jesus says those that exalt themselves will be humbled.
 
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Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. — Psalm 1:1-6 KJV

law = tora(h) a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:—law.

The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What [is] the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. — Jeremiah 23:28 KJV

Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. — Matthew 3:12 KJV

Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. — Luke 3:17 KJV

But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor. — Micah 4:12 KJV

"...the ungodly shall perish..."
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. — John 3:16-17 KJV
 
...To the  torah and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no light.
 
The new covenant is not about a list of laws that we must follow in order to enter God’s kingdom.
There is indeed a HUGE misunderstanding about what the new covenant actually is. Its not what you claimed IF we're sticking to what Scripture says it is...

prophecy says:
Jeremiah 31: 31-33
"31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Ezekiel 36: 24-28
"24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God."

Hebrews chapter 8 rehearses the prophecy of Jeremiah and also states that Yah found fault with THEM (His people) in the original covenant, because there is no fault in His law (covenant) since the Law giver is perfect and faultless. The fault is that we broke the covenant by disobeying. Christ is the mediator of a better agreement (covenant) because Yah puts His Spirit in us which causes us to obey, and He put His laws in our hearts rather than on stone. This time we're more equipped to obey so we can uphold our end of the covenant.

Of course Christ is a better mediator! His blood is on the line and his blood is our redemption and his example is perfect and blameless! What excuse do we now have to walk any other way than the way he showed us? And why are we caught up in the inability of the flesh to obey when he said lean on him and his strength is made perfect in our weakness?? This is where we dig in and endure with TRUE FAITH! Do we have faith to walk in the impossible? All things are possible with YAH!

ALL PRAISE to the MOST HIGH YAH!
 
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