2022 Where are we in course of history?

[frederick]

What rapture?

Please allow me to explain this term "Rapture" because, like the word e.g. "Trinity", it isn't found in the English Bible.
The word “Rapture” is from Latin origins and came to be used in reference to the Greek word found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and translated "caught up" in many Bibles today. The verb form of the Greek word is used elsewhere on the Bible; e.g. When explaining the parable of the sower and the seed to the apostles; Jesus said, "Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not
understand it, then the wicked one comes and "snatches away" what was sown in his heart" (Matt. 13:18-19). When speaking of the eternal security of His sheep, Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never
perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:27-29). Luke also uses the word regarding Philip being caught ...away by the Spirit of God after he had spoken to the man from Ethiopia. "So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptised him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea" (Acts 8:38-40). We can see from these passages and many others the Greek word used in the text means to seize, to claim for one’s self, to carry off quickly.

5,6 and 9 but no rapture that's a myth...

The rapture or catching away is fulfillment of what God has said in His Word for believers in 1 Thessalonians 4:17; that event where God is going to rapidly, abruptly, without prior notice, swiftly remove by force those who are Christians from this earth.

For those who would like an analysis of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 & 18, below is a screenshot from my study notes.
Shalom

 

[Mc_B]

I'd wager we're at a 7 or 8. The biggest issue is international finance, most of our histories being taught are lies, half-truths or reductionist garbage. Blackrock, Vanguard, Fidelity and State Street, etc manage most of the world's wealth. Any company worth investing in, they have their hands in. Ever wonder why everything's gone so woke so fast? There's your answer in a nutshell. The Flying J and Pilot CEO (US truck stops) admitted that they were forced to cut their supplies by ~25% and then 50% later, with the major shareholders being Blackrock and Vanguard, who both also have massive amounts of money in electric vehicles. They were threatened with embargos if they didnt comply, tanking the companies. Is gas high? Blackrock and Vanguard. Is Google woke and censoring free speech? Blackrock and Vanguard. Food issues? Blackrock and Vanguard. Don't want to push woke garbage? Well sorry, we own 25% or more of your company, do what we say or we'll ruin you. The only thing that lefties got right was the inherent evils of Capitalism, but Marxism is just the other side to the same coin, the rich get even richer while the normies get squat. Want to make the world a better place? Figure out the root cause to the collapse of our civilization, be careful because your entire world gets flipped upside down when you figure it out.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Figure out the root cause to the collapse of our civilization, be careful because your entire world gets flipped upside down when you figure it out.

Seems like what you're calling civilization is the corporate world. That is more like Mystery Babylon in our view.

The root cause of the collapse is idolatry and man made institutions that are respected....and then worshiped (bowed to).

Instead of prosecuting theft....it is allowed and legalized. We call it taxes, the dang blasted bank calls it a fee, but when they won't cash a check drawn on THEIR BANK without taking some six dollar fee they STOLE from you!

Corporations and corporate churches are all Baal worship....PERIOD. But few want to admit that. When the real reset happens that fake authority will not exist or be recognized. Hallelujah!

 

[Pacman]

Please allow me to explain this term "Rapture" because, like the word e.g. "Trinity", it isn't found in the English Bible.
The word “Rapture” is from Latin origins and came to be used in reference to the Greek word found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and translated "caught up" in many Bibles today. The verb form of the Greek word is used elsewhere on the Bible; e.g. When explaining the parable of the sower and the seed to the apostles; Jesus said, "Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not
understand it, then the wicked one comes and "snatches away" what was sown in his heart" (Matt. 13:18-19). When speaking of the eternal security of His sheep, Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never
perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:27-29). Luke also uses the word regarding Philip being caught ...away by the Spirit of God after he had spoken to the man from Ethiopia. "So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptised him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea" (Acts 8:38-40). We can see from these passages and many others the Greek word used in the text means to seize, to claim for one’s self, to carry off quickly.



The rapture or catching away is fulfillment of what God has said in His Word for believers in 1 Thessalonians 4:17; that event where God is going to rapidly, abruptly, without prior notice, swiftly remove by force those who are Christians from this earth.

For those who would like an analysis of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 & 18, below is a screenshot from my study notes.
Shalom
View attachment 3070

Oh I am very familiar with the myth about the rapture... I am also very familiar with a previous event found in the Bible that offers a much more probable explanation than all of the falsehood built up around the "rapture". There was another event where believers previously went up in a cloud with Yeshua. I think a similar event to the meal they shared with him on MT. Sinai is a much more plausible explanation for the 1 Thessalonians passage... It doesn't require making up completely unsubstantiated theories about "going to heaven" in mass and avoiding the tribulation that we are in no way told would happen.

Also while the same word is used about Philip that seems to point to being supernaturally moved to a different place on earth. It in no way indicates being taken to heaven.

 

[Yan]

Jesus said the end times would be like the times of the flood. People think the end times will be an apocalyptic place, full of destroyed buildings.

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

But don't forget one thing: the earth is getting sicker and sicker, and many young people are experiencing symptoms of mental illness. This is a sign that creation is weakened.

In my mind the green leaves of the trees were very bright and intense at the beginning of creation, but it seems that the green color is getting weaker and weaker.

 

[frederick]

I am also very familiar with a previous event found in the Bible that offers a much more probable explanation

Thank you for your comment @Pacman. It is not my desire to derail this thread however your suggestion above is clearly incorrect because, as you can observe from the analysis notes I have provided, the catching away of the saints is a future event at the time of the writing of this epistle. To suggest it is "a previous event" cannot be sustained and needs to be pointed out for the benefit of others who will read this thread.

Also while the same word is used about Philip that seems to point to being supernaturally moved to a different place on earth. It in no way indicates being taken to heaven.

My reference to what happened in the case of Philip is to show how the word is used in other contexts and not at all to suggest that Philip was snatched away and taken to heaven. I thought that was obvious because of the other biblical passages I referenced but I will add these below to help clarify the meaning of the words used to convey the understanding of being snatched or caught away.
For example, Paul used this word twice when writing about his experience of being caught up to heaven to be taught by God, in 2 Cor. 12:2-4. He wrote; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago; whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows; such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man; whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows; how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Here are some of the other passages with the Greek verb:
Matt. 11:12 ...and the violent take it by force.
John 6:15 ...and take Him by force to make Him king,
John 10:12 and the wolf catches the sheep
Jude v:23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,
Rev. 12:5 And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

In his epistle to the Thessalonians, Paul is writing about an event, yet future at the time of his writing, where God is going to rapidly, abruptly, without prior notice, swiftly remove by force those who are both resurrected and living saints from this earth, and they will meet the Lord in the air. That is very clearly what is written and it's purpose was to be a comfort to the saints grieving over loved ones who had passed away.

And now, back to the discussion on where we are in the course of history. Shalom

 

[Keith Martin]

Thank you for your comment @Pacman. It is not my desire to derail this thread however your suggestion above is clearly incorrect because, as you can observe from the analysis notes I have provided, the catching away of the saints is a future event at the time of the writing of this epistle. To suggest it is "a previous event" cannot be sustained and needs to be pointed out for the benefit of others who will read this thread.

Many great men have had many conflicting opinions about these passages, and both you, @frederick, and @Pacman have voice great points. Let me suggest that you can both be right, even though I myself don't read anything in Scripture to convince me that some large number of believers are going to be teleported to Heaven either in an instant or over the course of some very short period of time. Yes, "snatched away" is used in this and a great many other contexts, but it doesn't necessarily indicate (which aligns with some of your other examples) that people are going to physically disappear from one place and appear in another. The II Corinthians passage to which you refer is a great example, because in it Paul is fairly clearly referring to himself as in the disembodied 3rd-person, which is most appropriate, because what he's referring to is his 14-year-earlier experience of being put into a trance by Christ on the road to Damascus. To be in such a state of trance is quite literally and figuratively an experience of being snatched away from one's normal state of consciousness -- he even refers to it as one in which he didn't know whether he was in his body or not -- but any outside observer would have recognized that his body remained right there in place the entire time. Experientially, he was snatched away from this Earth, but tangibly his feet remained on the ground. I read it very similarly in I Thessalonians. 4:17 has to be read in the immediate context of 4:16: "for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first." [CLNT] Christ descending from Heaven (which means not still in Heaven but on His way to Earth and probably within sight so closer to Earth than Heaven; next the first-fruits of the dead believers rising from their graves, and then, "Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord." [CLNT] First of all, "snatched" is literal translation; "away" is added for our modern-vernacular understanding, but it isn't direct translation of the Greek -- just as Paul never went anywhere when he was "snatched away" in II Corinthians 12:2 (the Concordant Literal New Testament bolds only those words directly translated; the additional words are added because, to our modern ears, the now ancient fashion of speaking/writing would sound retarded). It's also important to remember that "air" begins immediately above the ground and exists contiguously until reaching outer space; Heaven may be closer to us than the Moon, but probably not.

 

[frederick]

but any outside observer would have recognized that his body remained right there in place the entire time.

I'll not add anything more after this because I don't want to derail this thread but Keith, your comment is pure speculation and totally unsubstantiated from the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 passage. The text clearly says, as my analysis shows, resurrected and physically alive saints will be caught up; snatched away to meet the Lord in the air and will always be with Him. I'm not debating when that will be other than to say it must be a future event at the time the epistle was written.

Shalom brother

 

[Pacman]

Thank you for your comment @Pacman. It is not my desire to derail this thread however your suggestion above is clearly incorrect because, as you can observe from the analysis notes I have provided, the catching away of the saints is a future event at the time of the writing of this epistle. To suggest it is "a previous event" cannot be sustained and needs to be pointed out for the benefit of others who will read this thread.

My reference to what happened in the case of Philip is to show how the word is used in other contexts and not at all to suggest that Philip was snatched away and taken to heaven. I thought that was obvious because of the other biblical passages I referenced but I will add these below to help clarify the meaning of the words used to convey the understanding of being snatched or caught away.
For example, Paul used this word twice when writing about his experience of being caught up to heaven to be taught by God, in 2 Cor. 12:2-4. He wrote; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago; whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows; such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man; whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows; how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Here are some of the other passages with the Greek verb:
Matt. 11:12 ...and the violent take it by force.
John 6:15 ...and take Him by force to make Him king,
John 10:12 and the wolf catches the sheep
Jude v:23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,
Rev. 12:5 And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

In his epistle to the Thessalonians, Paul is writing about an event, yet future at the time of his writing, where God is going to rapidly, abruptly, without prior notice, swiftly remove by force those who are both resurrected and living saints from this earth, and they will meet the Lord in the air. That is very clearly what is written and it's purpose was to be a comfort to the saints grieving over loved ones who had passed away.

And now, back to the discussion on where we are in the course of history. Shalom

I was saying that the future event in question will most likely be SIMILAR to the past event we read about at Mt. Sinai...

I also have no problem with being supernaturally relocated on earth like happened to Philip I think that's very possible to happen at some point. It's all the other stuff surrounding the "rapture" myth that is completely unsupported by the Bible that I take issue with. It causes many people to not prepare for the hard times that are obviously coming because they have believed the lie that those who are "saved" will be taken to heaven. It's a lie it's not supported by the Bible at all. And it will cause great suffering.

 

[Bass Reeves]

Generally speaking, the collapse of the Soviet Union was pretty peaceful. They let Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan go in peace (did I forget any?).

Chechnya a couple years later was a different matter.

Compare that to Yugoslavia/Serbia and Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, etc.

Or compare it with the situation in Rwanda with the Hutus and Tutsis.

When the USA disintegrates, I fear it may be Bosnia times Rwanda.

It would be nice if the American states (red states) could separate peacefully from the Insane/Communist states (blue ones like my Washington) peacefully like the Czech republic and Slovakia.

Fiery... mostly peaceful protests of 2020
If the collapse of the USSR was peaceful then what are we witnessing today? I don't think anyone in Ukraine would describe it as peaceful.

 

[Bartato]

Fiery... mostly peaceful protests of 2020
If the collapse of the USSR was peaceful then what are we witnessing today? I don't think anyone in Ukraine would describe it as peaceful.

The collapse of the Soviet Union happened more than thirty years ago.

This subsequent war between Russia and Ukraine is something else. Maybe it is the "rebuilding" of the "Soviet Union".

 

[MemeFan]

Collapse of Soviet Union was more peaceful than Yugoslavian breakup.

As far as I know only in Caucasus was war. Yuhoslavia had war in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina. There was armed conflict in Macedon and NATO bombing of Serbia.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

 

[steve]

Seems accurate.

 

[NickF]

Does it make someone a bad person if they laughed out loud with the first gunshot? Asking for a friend… not me…

 

[MeganC]

Does it make someone a bad person if they laughed out loud with the first gunshot? Asking for a friend… not me…

I lol'd too!

 

[PeteR]

Does it make someone a bad person if they laughed out loud with the first gunshot? Asking for a friend… not me…

Nah. That was hilarious.

 

[FollowingHim]

We're currently at 3-4. This is preparation for things to get a lot worse and we are certainly looking at 5-7 in the near future. Whether this is actual end times only God knows, we'll all find out soon enough.

The text clearly says, as my analysis shows, resurrected and physically alive saints will be caught up; snatched away to meet the Lord in the air and will always be with Him.

The text clearly says saints will be snatched away to meet the Lord in the atmosphere, and following that event will always be with Him. It does not say anything about being taken beyond the atmosphere, or where they will always be with Him - this could be on the earth in an earthly Kingdom of God, not necessarily in heaven (for instance, we might be a welcoming party who meet Him in the air when He comes to earth, and then come back down to earth with Him). I agree with @frederick that what the text says is true and will happen - but I think we need to be careful not to assume the text says more than it actually does and read our denominational traditions into it.

 

[FollowingHim]

Remember times have been very much worse at so many points in history and for so many different people. Are you starving to death? Has your family been murdered before your eyes with machetes? Are you hiding in a cave?

I think you're sitting comfortably in a house, in no fear of immediate death, with plenty of food, and so much wealth you can even afford a computer or phone that connects you to the entire world, through which you are reading this. You're not in hard times yet.

You might be soon. But you aren't yet. Don't be a drama queen.

 

[Victorious]

It seems rather obvious that we are living through some interesting times. Where do you see things going in the months and years to come?

Yes, I am asking for speculation from everyone.

Here is a little proposed scale for human drama.

1-2. Normal times. Nothing particularly interesting going on.

3-4. Spicy times. Cultural changes like the civil rights movement of 1960s, sexual revolution, divorce revolution, warfare like Vietnam, Korea, or Iraq, financial collapse of 2008.

5-6. Serious spicy and great pain, World War 1 and 2,. Great Depression, American Civil War of 1860s, American, French, or Russian revolution, Spanish flu

7. Rise and.fall of empires including the fall of Britain between 1900 and 1960, or the fall and collapse of the Soviet Communism and the Warsaw pact around 1990, Spain conquering the New World Incas and Aztecs in the 1500s, black death plague

8. Rise and fall of world empires, including the fall of Rome, the rise of the Islamic empire after the death of Mohammed, Mongol hoards

9. Things of great eschatological importance, such as the great and final Tribulation, the mark of the beast, the rapture of the Church, the rise of the antichrist

10. Ultimate. Return of Christ, Thousand year reign of Christ, White Throne Judgment, Lake of Fire, New Jerusalem, New Heavens and New Earth, every tear wiped away

With all that in mind, where are we on that type of scale?

I think we are obviously at least in that 5-6 neighborhood, and may well be heading towards the 7,8,9,10.

I think the American empire is collapsing. The dollar is falling

The greater Anglo-American order including USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ, is also falling apart.

China is rising.

The whole Neoliberal Western World (aka globohomo) order, including NATO, Japan, Korea, will change dramatically.

Massive economic earthquakes are at hand.

Massive ecological issues

Massive supply chain problems with shortages of essentials like food

Who knows?

Here is my opinion. I'm pretty sure we are going into massive worldwide change, and great pain. It will be at least a 7-8 on my scale.

Whatever happens, I know for certain that Jesus Christ is Lord. He will reign forever. My greatest desire is to be entirely His.

I think there is a very good likelihood that the world is going into the Great Tribulation, leading up to the Return of the King.

I don't know if I believe in the pre-tribulational rapture, but at this point, nothing would surprise me. I wouldn't be surprised to get raptured and be with Jesus very soon. Give me the choice, and I'm gone.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see the world fall into the great Tribulation, see the rise of the beast and antichrist, and get imprisoned, starved, and martyred by them. If that comes, I pray that Christ will keep us faithful unto death.

I also wouldn't be surprised to merely see the destruction of the dollar, the disintegration of the United States, the fall of Western Civilization, massive war, starvation and suffering around the world.
If that happens, I pray that God will help us to faithfully follow Christ, love others, and build towards a better future.

If the rapture happens soon, I won't ever be polygynous

If the Tribulation happens, and Christians go through it, I might possibly be polygynous, but it is going to be a really rough time.

If its only the fall of the Western World, then we might all work towards building a better and more Biblical society, and that might include polygamy.

What do you all think?

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