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Angels vs demons

steve

steve

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
Angels are not the opposite of demons.
No matter how cute the cartoon of one on each shoulder balancing each other out, it’s not reality.

There is no question that demons attempt to get you to go to the dark side.
But angels were not given to us to pull us towards the light, towards righteousness. They are not our conscience. They are simply there to assist us in whatever our decision is. Right or wrong.

No, I cannot prove it.
Can you disprove it?
 
Last week after Shabbat we had oneg (dinner), then were sitting around when someone asked a question about angels. Within minutes the conversation got really lively and we were back around the table with Bibles, tools and brains. For the next hour we went digging and for the first time I had to wrap my brain around the fact that scripture clearly demonstrates several different classes of angels. Cherubim, seraphim, others... different stature, numbers of wings, faces, etc... Even different mission and ministries... Very interesting and far more detailed and involved than even scripture tells us. I can't wait to see/learn in the future!!
 
steve said:
But angels were not given to us to pull us towards the light, towards righteousness. They are not our conscience. They are simply there to assist us in whatever our decision is. Right or wrong.

No, I cannot prove it.
Can you disprove it?
Click to expand...

The angel in Revelation at least did not respect John's decision to bow down to him.

Which doesn't prove or disprove anything. I believe the angels to be about as fallible as us, so their practical function may not match up to their intended function.
 
Ancient Paths said:
scripture clearly demonstrates several different classes of angels. Cherubim, seraphim, others...
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Good point, I didn’t differentiate.
I was only talking about the ministering angels that are assigned to us individually.
 
FollowingHim said:
Are there ministering angels that are assigned to us individually?
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Psalm 91:11 (KJV)
For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Matthew 4:6 (KJV)
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Luke 4:10 (KJV)
For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

I believe so.
 
steve said:
Psalm 91:11 (KJV)
For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Matthew 4:6 (KJV)
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Luke 4:10 (KJV)
For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

I believe so.
Click to expand...
Matthew 4:6 is Satan speaking. He’s not known for quoting God accurately.

From the other verses, apparently God’s angels watch over us in some way, but it doesn’t say they are individually assigned to us. I suppose they could be, there’s just no way to know for sure because the text doesn’t say it.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Matthew 4:6 is Satan speaking. He’s not known for quoting God accurately.

From the other verses, apparently God’s angels watch over us in some way, but it doesn’t say they are individually assigned to us. I suppose they could be, there’s just no way to know for sure because the text doesn’t say it.
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Psalm 91:11
11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways;

The passege referenced in Math 4:6. Besides, I don't think God would allow Satan to directly lie in God's Word.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
From the other verses, apparently God’s angels watch over us in some way, but it doesn’t say they are individually assigned to us. I suppose they could be, there’s just no way to know for sure because the text doesn’t say it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I am not saying such angels don't exist. I'm just pointing out that even on this point the text is very ambiguous. The only relevant passage is Psalm 91:11 (the others being quotes), and that can be interpreted in several ways (a small number of angels who are very busy, one angel per believer, a cloud of angels per believer, and so forth). The idea of one or several "guardian angels" per person is church tradition, not directly stated in scripture.

We know so little about angels we have built traditions out of single verses.
 
The whole Bible is full of references to angels ministering to humans. To say they don't because of just a few particular verses is all you get is like saying that salvation is not a real thing because it's not exactly spelled out.
 
Is there a down-side to believing that we have personal ministering angels?
 
Hebrews 1:14 (KJV) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
 
steve said:
Is there a down-side to believing that we have personal ministering angels?
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No.
You were just saying a number of statements about a class of angels (ministering ones) that you believe, but cannot prove. I was just illustrating that our lack of knowledge goes even further, extending even to uncertainty over whether such angels even exist in the way that is traditionally understood. I just find it interesting how little information we are given, I have no point to prove nor do I see a problem with your perspective.
 
steve said:
Is there a down-side to believing that we have personal ministering angels?
Click to expand...
The down side is that it would reading something into the text that isn’t there. We should try to avoid that because God doesn’t want us adding to his word. I’m guilty of it too sometimes, and I appreciate when others point it out to me, because it sharpens my understanding of God’s word. I can’t really think of an up side to believing it. In what way would it be helpful to believe it?
 
Just making 2 points: 1. Humans are made a little lower than the angels. These verses reference the form of humanity Yeshua assumed in coming to earth as a human, hence my thought process that humans are in a position beneath angels in God's grand scheme of things.
Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:


2. Angels cannot experience salvation as we humans know it. Can't remember the exact verse. I'll have to do some thinking to find it. The angels rejoice in Heaven when an earthly soul turns to Yeshua, but they do not understand nor have the need for salvation themselves.
 
1 Peter 1:12 KJV
[12] Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Is this the verse you were thinking of @rejoicinghandmaid ?
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
The down side is that it would reading something into the text that isn’t there. We should try to avoid that because God doesn’t want us adding to his word.
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1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Is the Holy Spirit allowed to bring us greater understanding of concepts that YHWH introduces us to in His word?
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
I can’t really think of an up side to believing it. In what way would it be helpful to believe it?
Click to expand...
There is nothing to you that would be positive if you found out that there were invisible messengers from the courts of Heaven that walk alongside of you and desire to assist you?
 
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