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Angels vs demons

rejoicinghandmaid said:
Okay, so now that you've brought it up--I've never understood "nephilim". Who are they? From where did they come? They are mentioned several times in OT. In my reading I've always thought they were human, but now you are mentioning them in the angelic realm. My brain is spinning--HELP?!?
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Hopefully this isn't too off the beaten path for this thread, but: In Genesis 6:4 the Nephilim are introduced as being the offspring of the Sons of God and the Daughters of Men; sons of God being an identifier for angels in Job. Somehow or another they survive the flood and are around to take over the land of Canaan and produce creatures like Goliath. It isn't inaccurate to call them human, but neither does being human tell the whole story. The particular tribes that harbored the nephilimic bloodlines were later ordered to be utterly annihilated by God, not just subjugated or driven out.

The book of Enoch (1 Enoch) says: But now the giants who are born from the (union of) the spirits and the flesh shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, because their dwelling shall be upon the earth and inside the earth. 9 Evil spirits have come out of their bodies. Because from the day that they were created from the holy ones they became the Watchers; their first origin is the spiritual foundation. They will become evil upon the earth and shall be called evil spirits.
 
Demons are interesting because scripture talks a lot about them, but never explains what they are. The only book I know that explains what they are is Enoch. As Jude 1:6 appears to reference Enoch, and the book has been held in high regard by various historical Jewish and Christian groups, I think that in the absence of better information we should simply believe what Enoch says about demons. And even if it's not complerely correct, it's simpler to just accept it, because it's still going to be closer to the truth than anything we make up ourselves...

As @Slumberfreeze has stated, Enoch identifies the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 to be fallen angels, and the Nephilim / giants to be the offspring of the fallen angels and human women. The evil spirits / demons are the spirits of the nephilim - when their bodies died their spirits became disembodied evil spirits. So demons are part-angel and part-human spirits.

I don't think they survived the flood - rather there were further angel / human sex events after the flood producing the giants in Canaan, and resulting in the need for those people to be exterminated by the Israelites, Edomites, Moabites and Ammonites (the descendents of Abraham and Lot). Note that many of Abraham's relatives were used for this purpose as outlined in Deuteronomy 2, it was bigger than just Canaan, but Canaan was the Israelites part of the job.

Here's a good brief summary of this issue.
 
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Asforme&myhouse said:
I’m assuming by “positive” you mean good? The scripture apeaks in terms of good and evil not positive and negative. Those terms come from the false religions of the east.
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Can you back that up?
The concept of positive and negative energy is promoted by eastern religions, but somehow the words positive and negative belong to them?
Having a positive attitude is a bad thing because of the source of the word?
 
Genesis 24:7 (KJV)
The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.

Did the ancients understand some things that have been lost to us?
Are we not allowed to be shown any of those things because YHWH didn’t make them blatantly obvious in Scripture?

Or are we just smarter than them and we don’t accept anything that we cannot see, touch, or feel?
 
steve said:
Genesis 24:7 (KJV)
The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.

Did the ancients understand some things that have been lost to us?
Are we not allowed to be shown any of those things because YHWH didn’t make them blatantly obvious in Scripture?

Or are we just smarter than them and we don’t accept anything that we cannot see, touch, or feel?
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Are you saying, thus says the Lord, you all have an individualy assigned angel?

What does that verse have to do with what you’re talking about?

Are you familiar with the doctrine of sola scriptura, essentially the foundational doctrine of the Reformation?
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Why? You just claimed that we have individually assigned angels, care to back that up?
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The difference is that I plainly stated that I cannot prove it.
Unlike you, I am not requiring anyone to believe me.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Are you familiar with the doctrine of sola scriptura, essentially the foundational doctrine of the Reformation?
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Yes, but I don’t allow it to interfere with my relationship with the Almighty.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Do you not agree with sola scriptura?
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I believe in Sola YHWH, from whom Scripture comes.
Elevating Scripture above Him is a good description of religion.

There are two ditches.
1). Scripture doesn’t really matter, it’s all about what I feel YHWH telling me.
2). Thanx for Your Word, YHWH. You can go about Your business somewhere else in the universe, we’ve got it from here.
 
steve said:
I believe in Sola YHWH, from whom Scripture comes.
Elevating Scripture above Him is a good description of religion.
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Psalm 138:2 KJV
[2] I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.



steve said:
2). Thanx for Your Word, YHWH. You can go about Your business somewhere else in the universe, we’ve got it from here.
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Is that what you think sola scriptura is?

What is the apparent high road in the middle?
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
What is the apparent high road in the middle?
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In my almost 50 years of of driving I have always found the road in between the ditches.
If you want to drive in the cornfield, knock yourself out.
 
Sheesh
I’m such an idiot.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Are you saying, thus says the Lord, you all have an individualy assigned angel?
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I don't know if Hebrews 1:14 makes the case for individual angels assigned to us but it does say that angels are assigned to us.

Hebrews 1:7-14

7 And regarding the angels He says,

“He makes His angels winds,
and His servants a flame of fire.”

8 But regarding the Son He says,

“Your throne, O G-d, is forever and ever,
and a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
therefore G-d, Your G-d, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.”

10 And,

“In the beginning, Adonai,
You laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the works of Your hands.
11 They shall pass away, but You remain.
And they will all wear out like clothing.
12 And like a robe You will roll them up,
and like clothing they will be changed;
but You are the same,
and Your years shall never end.”

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said,

“Sit at My right hand,
until I make Your enemies a footstool
for Your feet”?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out for service to those about to inherit salvation?
 
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