John Whitten said:
While I consider the benefit of organizing various poly groups around a general code of ethical behavior worthwhile, I sincerely doubt that we could pull it off. There is hardly a more diverse group of people than the citizens of poly world. We have a hard enough time agreeing on basic things as it is. To put someone else in charge of overseeing the ethical conduct of our membership is asking for a revolution.
Sure there are a diverse group of people in the poly world. However, there are guidelines all the leadership can agree to on Christian Polygamy groups. I don't see the issue as you do.
Nobody is asking to put anyone else in charge of the ethical conduct of BF membership. Such an organization would be passing on their judgment recommendation to the BF leadership. If BF chose to ignore it, then I suppose BF would be out as well.
But the problem with that is EXACTLY why we have so many troubles. Nobody wants to agree on standards. Until we do, polygamy will never be more than a fractured and hopeless movement.
Christians should stick together. All the Mormons, Muslims, and other polygamists can deal with their own problems.
I don't think ANYONE that matters is going to have a hard time agreeing to a few basic standards. For instance, there are men that think that underage marriage is good and righteous. They can take a flying leap! We don't need them. So they don't agree. So what? THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.
We aren't talking about detailed and petty restrictions. We are talking about broad protective standards of conduct. No unsolicited sexual e-mail or messages. No messages involving aberrant sexual behavior, including, but not limited to, bestiality, cannibalism, human sacrifice, and homosexuality. No physical threats against others.
If BF cannot agree to those rules, then perhaps a better organization should replace BF...or any organization that cannot say that this moral standard should apply to everyone.
John Whitten said:
I have a simpler plan that should not even need to be mentioned, but since our society is so fragmented and weakened, I will. I can't speak for other nations, but the good ol' US of A has become so mollified by a group mentality that we tend to not defend ourselves or police ourselves. "Let the Cops take care of it", "Call 9-1-1" is the cry of the day. this is a true statement, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away". The recent 10th anniversary of the Islamic attack on America recalls the perfect example of the problem and proposes the perfect solution to the ethical conduct issue for BiblicalFamilies.org.
On any of the four planes that were hijacked and used as weapons, the only weapons that are known of are box cutters or utility knives. Short blades that can slash and cause pain and bleeding, but are not lethal unless a major artery is cut. These knives in the hands of a few men who are obviously not there in an official position should never have stopped a few brave, red-blooded American men from eliminating their threat. Briefcases, serving trays, purses, coats, even seat cushions could be used as defensive instruments to overtake the knives. In the available space on board an airliner a few brave men could have won the day. The valiant men on flight 93 did the job, they just waited too long to act. Why did the terrorists win??? They won because everyone on the planes have been acclimated to thinking, "Call somebody". Our ancestors knew better, the right to self-defense is an inalienable, God given right. We must not convey with simplicity of mind the health and well being of BiblicalFamilies.org into the hands of another entity or even our government officials.
I submit that this is prideful and a bit foolish. BF is not the be-all and end-all of polygamy, nor Christianity. At least the early church had the good sense to be humble and work together, like when the elders and apostles met in Jerusalem in Acts 15.
Here's the thing, we ARE cleaning up our own mess if we are part of an organization that works AMONG Christian polygamy groups to spread the word about wicked people. When we keep it bottled up at BF, then we are doing our brothers and sisters in Christ a disservice. We are allowing bad people to run rampant in their groups, without saying a thing.
Or are you wanting to make BF the top organization for spreading the word? That would be a bad idea as well, allowing BF to lord over other groups.
The ONLY solution is a neutral organization that works with ALL of the organizations. That is the only way it will ever work.
Even our ancestors worked together for justice all the way back to the beginning of history. The opposite is anarchy and everyone doing what is right in their own eyes. God forbid!
The idea only works when we ALL join in our own self-defense. Unless we report the problems, no organization can deal with them.
Here's what I've seen: Foolish men debating whether wicked men should be banned or not, being namby-pamby with men that are would-be adulterers, sexual deviants, abusers, and other deviants with the precious women and that we as God's children ought to protect with all of our might. Even some of our brethren are getting attacked, yet BF for example takes forever to deal with a simple problem. Did they do it? Then kick their nasty butts out!!!
John Whitten said:
We must not convey with simplicity of mind the health and well being of BiblicalFamilies.org into the hands of another entity or even our government officials.
You miss the point that we don't get the choice of putting the well-being of BF into the hands of the government if these kind of things continue. The government will do it themselves and we won't get the say-so.
Unless we broaden our scope to include other Christian poly groups as well, then we will come under scrutiny as a movement, not just as individual groups.
John Whitten said:
I propose that the members of Biblical Families police our own backyard, clean up our own messes so that we are not an eyesore to our world. When someone is misbehaving, report them with the evidence to the Staff. We will come up with a basic, simple but clear code of conduct, but it must be implemented. Don't wait for someone else to report problems, do it your self. When the staff takes appropriate action, don't criticize and don't coddle offenders. We must be an organization, a fellowship of godly behaving people or there is no reason for us to exist as a group. Troublemakers ought not to be tolerated. If we cannot disagree, agreeably then we should report or shut up. Personally, I would like to see a lascivious person make a comment and quickly be taken to task by every man here (pm's preferably). Perverts should be ashamed to show their face on this site.
I hope BF doesn't become so internal and insulated as not to be part of the entire Christian polygamy movement. If BF starts to act that way--as a selfish, wholly independent group--then I'll work against them. That's wrong and a bad attitude. We are part of the body of Christ. We aren't insulated from our brethren and shouldn't be. It becomes a cultist attitude at a certain point, and I've known many cults and how they work.
This benefits only a narrow number of people who need to know who is dangerous in the poly world. Not only that, but what about people coming from other groups and secretly soliciting or hitting on the membership before they are stopped? A standards organization has the benefit of passing that information along, while NOT doing so risks not only BF members--particularly the women--but also members of other Christian polygamy groups. A warning that passes to all would be well worth any "authority" you might feel that BF has lost.
Pastor Whitten, while you know I respect you, I feel that you are taking a very negative and bad position on a good idea that will benefit and protect many people. BF should not be on a selfish power trip over polygamy. BF is not God's special chosen instrument of polygamy.
John Whitten said:
OK, I have ranted enough.
Editing: Guess I haven't ranted enough. Is our anonymity worth all the screen names. I use my actual name for a purpose, I do not want to hide my beliefs. I know that many here may suffer loss if their belief in Biblical Marriage were known, but every movement has some martyrs. Just something to think about.
Yes, our anonymity is well worth all the screen names. You may be insulated from financial disaster by retirement or by some other means, but most of us need to make a living.
The thing is that you aren't looking at this realistically nor rationally. There are many beliefs that should be hidden for a time. A wise person doesn't tell all he knows, until he has tested the waters and decided with good reason whether to stay out or jump in.
I'm sorry, but polygamy is not a belief that is so important that we ought to become martyrs over it. There are far more important things to do with our lives than to destroy them over polygamy. We aren't talking "some martyrs", but the wholesale destruction of everyone.
If God calls you to speak your mind in public about polygamy, more power to you. But to suggest that we should all stick our necks out for a non-essential of Christianity is not reasonable.
For the first time since I came to believe that polygamy is a blessed union over the past dozen years or so, I have started dating/courting a woman that I'd like to marry. I hope to marry her in about a year. So polygamy is becoming a serious issue for me, and while it isn't essential to Christianity, it will be to my own situation.
But until that happens, I have to be able to prepare for my second wife and take care of my family at the same time. I'm not financially well off, so I can't just blurt out to the neighborhood, "Hey! I'm a polygamist!" and hope to be able to survive. I have time to deal with the issue and prepare. In the meantime, I appreciate my relative anonymity.
Yet in all the time I have believed in polygamy, I have never lied to anyone about it if they have asked. What I have done is be CAUTIOUS with what I say and try to make strong points that can't readily be challenged. But I don't foolishly just tell them I believe in polygamy no matter what they think. IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT. If God makes me a spokesperson as a polygamous man, ONLY THEN will I step out and upset society. Until then I will quietly and wisely work to change minds, one at a time if necessary.
In the past dozen years, I have helped HUNDREDS and maybe thousands of people believe that polygamy is blessed, or have helped to strengthen their stance on the topic. Even keeping relatively silent, I have affected more change than most pro-polygamists out there. So it doesn't take being outspoken to create change. It just takes quiet and honest determination to speak the truth to those that will hear, without unnecessarily offending the ones that don't want to hear.
John for Christ
