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Fear of God

Any punishment other than death (seperation from Him) no matter what type is a tender mercy.

The bible says death is mercy, righteous are spared through the things to come with being taken home early.
"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come." Isaiah 75:1

Death isn't always a bad thing..... or punishment.
 
Two types of death, body: no big deal righteous go to heaven, spirit: permanent sepration from G-d punishment.
 
Your beleif that Ephesians 5:33 Phobos was not meant as respect or reverence and the translation was changed. Your opinion based of your interpretation.


We're all men and we all discuss to work things out. Sometimes some of us get a revalation and change our stance , other times not. Your beleif is only authority in Your home. Your not the Head over any of us so your disappointment means nothing. It's unfounded since you did make a beleif statement, although you see it as a fact and not beleif. There has been scripture provide to counter your opinon you choose to interpret it in a way that keeps your opinon intact. This is not humble. This is finger wagging. You say we give typical Pharasse Responses....re-read your post where you elevate your opinion to authority.

At no point did I deny any scriptures you mentioned about love, I agreed with them. I don't agree with cop out gestures to get around responsibility that the word says what it says about fear and wrath. I didn't change our inturpit incorrectly I simply pointed out that the word used in Eph was changed from the original meaning of the word, I didn't say "oh i think it means this", I simply presented the facts of the original wording used in greek that our English bible was translated from. Not all the words used in the English bible are accurate from the original manuscripts in the original languages of greek and Hebrew.

Im sorry your so offended by what the bible says.
 
Two types of death, body: no big deal righteous go to heaven, spirit: permanent sepration from G-d punishment.
No specific mention of what death he was referring to was used, clearly im referring to earthly death, not spirit death, and I don't see any thing in the word to imply a death or perminant death of our spirit.
 
Im sorry your so offended by what the bible says.
The bible doesn't offend me. Your interpitation doesn't offend me.
I'm offended how your dancing around what you really want to validate and justify and how your interpreting scripture as you see fit with the claim of authority then hypocritically acussing us of doing the same when we're say we see it diffrently. So let's talk about what your trying to valid and justify with your self Righteous posturing.

I don't beat my wives, but if it's needed there is domestic discipline and it's not forced it's their choice to submit to it, if not then fine, the lack of submission will create a problem in the relationship and a rift.

I'm of the opinion that I don't care what's going on in your House. I do care that your trying to use scripture to justify and validate your beleif. I care that your trying to get men to validate your beleif without knowing there validating your beleif. I find it enlightening that you will to call other men out because you think they're not speaking what they really mean while your trying to get validation on the sly.
 
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@Sean Miller, please don't try to be a martyr for your point. I have said I agree with your point about weak kneed Christians trying to discount a healthy, teeth-chattering, knee-shaking, sweat it out fear of God. I'm probably more on your side there than the other side...

But, you are exemplifying your argument about why denominationalism began. So, you don't agree with the other viewpoints? All well. I don't think anyone is questioning anyone's eternal relationship with God or their redemptive status. So, we chalk up our different flavors of interpretation as healthy dialogue. Everyone here has used scripture, so it's hard to say that people are being disingenuous or misleading or fabricating.

Let's stop straining at gnats here and agree that biblical hierarchy in marriage exists. How you want it to look in your home is your doing. If it works for you, go for it. I just ask that you don't dismiss those of us who choose to follow the servant/sacrifice model as somehow deficient or weak.
 
The bible doesn't offend me. Your interpitation doesn't offend me.
I'm offended how your dancing around what you really want to validate and justify and how your interpreting scripture as you see fit with the claim of authority then hypocritically acussing us of doing the same when we're say we see it diffrently. So let's talk about what your trying to valid and justify with your self Righteous posturing.



I'm of the opinion that I don't care what's going on in your House. I do care that your trying to use scripture to justify and validate your beleif. I care that your trying to get men to validate your beleif without knowing there validating your beleif. I find it enlightening that your will to call other men out for not speaking what they really mean while your trying to get validation on the sly.
What am I trying to "valid" or "justify"? It seems to me your the one skirting around here and not coming out and just saying what your wanting to accuse me of.

If there was any self righteous words I'd apologize for that, but honestly I'm not useing scripture to justify any thing other than to stand by what it says as a whole, not pick the pieces out that fit your argument the best and disregard the rest. So again, why don't you stop accusing me of the exact thing it appears your doing and speak your mind.
 
Sean, you are reading the Bible in English, taking the simplest meaning of the English words as absolute unarguable truth, and preaching "thus says the word".

Other posters are looking at the Bible in Greek, looking carefully at the nuances of meaning, and proposing it isn't that clear-cut - yet agreeing with 90% of what you say.

Nobody is rejecting the Word. Everyone is basing their view squarely on it. The few differences are about interpretation and emphasis only.
 
Coming into this conversation late and looking with a fresh perspective from the outside, as someone not emotionally invested in the debate - I really don't think there's anywhere near as much disagreement as many posters think. I think each person has built a straw man of what they THINK the other person believes, and are arguing against that straw man - which is in many cases an inaccurate caricature.

I think it might help to have everybody state clearly, in the same format, what they actually believe the fear of God & fear of a husband entails. Would each person like to answer the following standard set of questions? If you do, I think you might find others agreeing with you on more points than you realised. Please don't argue about the questions, sure they'll be imperfect, I just wrote them off the top of my head, but I hope through this imperfect set of questions we might be able to see greater unity than is apparent in the above discussion. If I missed something key just add a note at the end.

Does fear of God:
1: involve an element of terror / scaredness?
2. involve an element of respect / awe?

Does fear of a husband:
3: involve an element of terror / scaredness?
4: involve an element of respect / awe?

Regarding God, do we fear:
5: arbitrary wrath, ie that He might suddenly do something bad to us for no reason?
6: punishment for our day-to-day sins?
7: punishment with torment and separation from Him at the final judgement if we choose to live in continual rebellion?

Regarding a husband, should a woman fear:
8: arbitrary wrath?
9: punishment for her day-to-day failings?
10: separation from him if she chooses to live in continual rebellion?

11: Is fear of God primarily scary, or comforting?
12: Is fear of a husband primarily scary, or comforting?

I'll answer those myself, but I'll hide my answers in a quote here, so as not to influence anyone else. Please don't expand the quote and read my answers until you've decided how you'd answer them yourself.
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Answers below...
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Does fear of God:
1: involve an element of terror / scaredness? Yes (but see below as this is limited)
2. involve an element of respect / awe? Yes

Does fear of a husband:
3: involve an element of terror / scaredness? Yes (but see below as this is limited)
4: involve an element of respect / awe? Yes

Regarding God, do we fear:
5: arbitrary wrath, ie that He might suddenly do something bad to us for no reason? No. He is just.
6: punishment for our day-to-day sins? No. Our sins are already forgiven. But we do know that He is capable of punishing sin, and therefore fearful, even if we do not need to fear this personally.
7: punishment with torment and separation from Him at the final judgement if we choose to live in continual rebellion? Yes. But at the same time we know that this is entirely avoidable, so if we follow him with love we no longer need to live in this fear.

Regarding a husband, should a woman fear:
8: arbitrary wrath? No.
9: punishment for her day-to-day failings? No. But she does know that He is strong enough to be capable of this if he was to choose to do it, even though he will not, and therefore fearful in some degree, even if she does not need to fear this personally.
10: separation from him if she chooses to live in continual rebellion? Yes. But at the same time she knows this is entirely avoidable, if she is trying to be a good wife there is no need to fear this - it is something that would only occur if she chose to make it occur through making him unable to live with her any longer for some reason.

11: Is fear of God primarily scary, or comforting? Comforting. If we know God is the most terrifying being in existence, yet he is on our side, we need not fear anything else.
12: Is fear of a husband primarily scary, or comforting? Comforting. If a wife knows her husband is strong enough that he could theoretically hurt somebody physically, but he is on her side, then she need not fear the world around her because she has a strong, fearful husband by her side. That's why many women are attracted to strong, bad men like gang leaders - to some degree the scarier the man, the more attractive, because if he's on her side then she's safe.
 
The Biblical Hebrew language does. Our modern English doesnt.
As far as I can tell Kevin, it doesn't. Our modern English translations seem to make the distinction and the original just considered it all the same integrated concept.
 
If all you are looking at is verse 17 then perhaps you can make those claims. The passage is much more detailed than that and disprove what your saying within the passage.

I’ll break it down.

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.


16. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.


God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17. Herein is our† love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Obviously His love is always perfect. The passage says that our love is made perfect when we dwell in God and God in us. At this point the relationship is obviously filial and that is why we may have boldness in the day of judgement. Those who are not in Christ obviously do not have this filial relationship, thus they are prevented from boldness in the day of judgement because they are appointed to wrath. Those who are in Christ are not appointed to wrath 1 Thess 5 thus they may have boldness through Christ before the Judge.




18. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment.†. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
We love him, because he first loved us. Eph. 5:25 Husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the church.

Because a perfect love like Christs' casts out fear, it does not utilize it as a tool to keep our wives in submission to us. A wife that is submitted utilizing terror will never love her husband like we are to love Christ. If all of her reactions and service are based upon her terror of her husband, rather than from love and reverence of her husband, her love will never be perfected because "she' that feareth is not made perfect in love.

So he that feareth is not made perfect in love, and yet under your perspective, you think your wife has to fear so that she can be made perfect in love? These concepts are contradictory and illogical.



Your assertion that terror and reverence are symbiotic and intricately intertwined have been based solely on your own predisposition. Where is your reference that the one who is in Christ should be in terror of God. The Romans passage only supports this if you ignore the part about the contrast between the severity and the goodness of God. Only if you fall away do you have to be worried about being cut off. Those who are in Christ are secure.



Romans 11:2 states that God hath not cast away his people which He forknew. Vrs 7 says that Israel hath not obtained it, but the election (the people that He forknew) hath obtained it. 20 because of unbelief they (unbelieving Israel) were broken off (not the believing remnant vrs 5) and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded (arrogant) but fear (not terror but a filial reverence or humility because you are where you are by faith in Christ). 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. (Even the ones who were cut off in His severity will be grafted back in if they abide not in unbelief)

The whole point of this passage is not that we're to be terrified that God will arbitrarily cut us off with severity. The whole thing is about those that are dwelling in God versus those who aren't. Those who are, have nothing to worry about provided they stay in covenant. These are the ones who may be bold in the day of judgement, because they have a filial covenant. Those who aren't in God are the ones who have to be terrified of judgement. Just like I've been saying the entire time. Wrath and terror are for those outside of filial covenant with God, never for those within covenant with God.



That's a poor understanding of what I was saying. 2000 years ago, everyone understood that the word phobeo was used in two different ways depending on how they were used in the phrase. 1600 AD, the translators of the day understood that the word phobeo was used in two different ways depending on how they were used in the phrase, prime example Eph. 5 where they utilized the word reverence in stead of fear. 1800 AD, Daniel Webster understood that the English word fear had more than one definition depending on how it was used in the phrase. And now, 2000 years after the passage was written, everyone that doesn't have an ax to grind, or a fallacy or misunderstanding of scripture to support, still understands that the word is used in two or more different ways depending on how they are used in the phrase.

This has nothing to do with a modernized mind or the BS that comes from Dobson (whatever that is). It has everything to do with rightly dividing scripture. So far you have yet to address the passage in 1 Peter 3 that absolutely disproves the idea that our wives are to be in terror or fear of their husband, but like Sara, are to be humble and submissive and hold their believing Godly husband in a type of reverence or phobeo, not just without terror, but without any terror. Or prove how reverence is symbiotic and intricately intertwined with terror, and have been decidedly obtuse about the 1 John 4 passage.


Philipians 2:12. Be thorough and objective about that and tell me what you come up. I come up with fear and trembling. If I dig a little further I find that there is no way to cut terror out of it. So yes, we are too be terrified of God and the very bad theology you are promulgating can not be used to water down a wife's call to fear her husband if she can't obey him perfect love.

Because that was the whole crux of this side debate, women can't possibly be called to fear their husbands because we aren't called to fear God. But it is abundantly clear that we are indeed to fear God, even if we can be confident in His actions. So you could still try to make the case from another direction but I don't see how you can keep at it from this angle. The calls to knee knocking fear and myriad, clear and widespread.
 
Of course, I could address the Philippians 2:12 passage, and started to before I realized that I’ve been doing all the addressing and instead of responding to my comments, and addressing passages that I’ve listed, you just keep dodging and moving the goal posts, moving on to other passages without rebutting or addressing what I’ve said.

Phil. 2:12 says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Outside of salvation, fear and terror is a wise response when coming face to face with an Almighty God. Inside of salvation, we have boldness and access with confidence (Eph 3:12) into the holy of holies with a true heart in full assurance of faith, wherein we hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering (Heb. 10:19, 22, 23)

Outside of salvation = no filial relationship = no fellowship with God = wrath and separation from God = fear and trembling because of the day of judgement.

Inside of salvation = filial relationship = fellowship with God = reverence, humility, and a certain boldness to approach our Awesome Father for any reason and boldness and confidence in and through Christ in the day of judgement.

So please, feel free to continue to present passages that repeatedly prove my position. Wrath is never for those within the house. Only for those outside the house.
 
Does fear of God:
1: involve an element of terror / scaredness? Yes
2. involve an element of respect / awe? Yes

Does fear of a husband:
3: involve an element of terror / scaredness? Yes
4: involve an element of respect / awe? Yes

Regarding God, do we fear:
5: arbitrary wrath, ie that He might suddenly do something bad to us for no reason? No
6: punishment for our day-to-day sins? If I'm going to do this without quibbling about terminology... Yes
7: punishment with torment and separation from Him at the final judgement if we choose to live in continual rebellion? I don't know that I can answer this without quibbling. But basically no.

Regarding a husband, should a woman fear:
8: arbitrary wrath? No
9: punishment for her day-to-day failings? Exactly as above. Yes. With an essay of caveats.
10: separation from him if she chooses to live in continual rebellion? Basically no.

11: Is fear of God primarily scary, or comforting? Er... decidedly uncomfortable , which leads to comfort when I have moved from the place of disobedience.
12: Is fear of a husband primarily scary, or comforting? My wife says there isn't much comfortable about it haha
 
Of course, I could address the Philippians 2:12 passage, and started to before I realized that I’ve been doing all the addressing and instead of responding to my comments, and addressing passages that I’ve listed, you just keep dodging and moving the goal posts, moving on to other passages without rebutting or addressing what I’ve said.

Phil. 2:12 says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Outside of salvation, fear and terror is a wise response when coming face to face with an Almighty God. Inside of salvation, we have boldness and access with confidence (Eph 3:12) into the holy of holies with a true heart in full assurance of faith, wherein we hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering (Heb. 10:19, 22, 23)

Outside of salvation = no filial relationship = no fellowship with God = wrath and separation from God = fear and trembling because of the day of judgement.

Inside of salvation = filial relationship = fellowship with God = reverence, humility, and a certain boldness to approach our Awesome Father for any reason and boldness and confidence in and through Christ in the day of judgement.

So please, feel free to continue to present passages that repeatedly prove my position. Wrath is never for those within the house. Only for those outside the house.

Huh, you and I are having two different conversations. I don't keep moving the goal posts, I keep showing you more passages that clearly show a fear based on terror. You keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "Neiner, neiner, neiner." Which I assume Daniel Webster would interpret as "filial relationship" since I have yet to see that phrase in the Bible itself. All I see is the word phobos being linked to a lot of fear and trembling and that never being denied or mitigated in the text itself. I KNOW, I KNOW! Filial relationship. It's starting to sound like an Abbot and Costello routine.

You want me to deal with your proof texts? Not a one of them are incompatible with a fear of God, in fact if you keep reading in Hebrews 10 you'll see that a sanctified believer should still fear. Read verses 28-31 where it is clearly a sanctified believer who has something to fear as it says God will judge His people and that it is a fearful thing to fall in to the hands of an angry God. Again, the whole passage being addressed to one who has been sanctified but the blood of the covenant. (Verse 29)

Since you've pointed out some of my alleged shortcomings in this debate may I gently suggest that you are looking at single phrases and even words, not even single verses, and taking them completely out of context of the surrounding verses. We saw this 1 John 4, now with Hebrews 10 and almost every verse you've cited in this debate. Casting just a slightly wider net instantly turns up the necessity of fear and the POSSIBILITY of confidence.

Is this paradox? Yes. There are many in our faith; the first shall be last, dying so you can live, giving to receive, enslaving yourself to be free, etc. God always reconciles these apparently unreconcilable concepts perfectly and beautifully. And he does so here.

The beginning of the relationship with Him is fear. The relationship can stay right there and be ultimately effective. Or it can move beyond there and incorporate a perfected love (on our part) that leads to an obedience that can give us confidence. But we are warned to never lose that fear that we will screw the whole thing up.

So now there is no contradiction, there is no need to do mental gymnastics about the phobeo or to risk being irreverent. We are to fear Him and He will give us confidence. It's far safer than Him having to give us fear to counteract our misplaced confidence. Now we can see how this concept plugs in to the marriage metaphor if you like. Although I am sure you are going to point out "filial relationship" I have to admit that despite all of your's and Daniel Webster's best efforts I still don't see it split out into different categories in the text. It certainly wasn't conveyed to us if it was.
 
As far as I can tell Kevin, it doesn't. Our modern English translations seem to make the distinction and the original just considered it all the same integrated concept.
Websters Definition of fear
: an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger
b (1) : an instance of this emotion
(2) : a state marked by this emotion
2: anxious concern : solicitude
: profound reverence and awe especially toward G-d
4: reason for alarm : danger

Multiple meanings and lack of context that leaves the word fear without distinction. At least in the Hebrew and Greek the alternate spelling of the words around it gives a better context sometimes.

Then we have ultimate context that as husbands were suppose to Emulate Yeshua. He was not not wrathful.

Matthew 10:27-31
What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim on the housetops. "Do not fear those who kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gei-Hinnom. Aren't sparrows sold for next to nothing, two for an assarion? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father's consent. As for you, every hair on your head has been counted. So do not be afraid, you are worth more than many sparrows.

The Wrath of G-d is visited on those who harm His people and/or stand against Him. Testing Him is not being faithful therefor its standing against Him.

Matthew 12:30-31
“Those who are not with me are against me, and those who do not gather with me are scattering. Because of this, I tell you that people will be forgiven any sin and blasphemy, but blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh will not be forgiven.

(To answer the Ananias and Saphira question)

Punishment for our sins we deserve and the only reason to fear (have anxeity over) punishment for our sins is if we're trying to not be accountable.

So the only fear of G-d I see that applies to believers is what Yeshua said to fear, destruction of our souls, true death, to be eternally seperated from G-d. If you don't love and revere G-d then eternal seperation from Him wouldn't matter.

Husbands can not destroy a wives soul so according to Yeshua there is to be no fear there.

This leads us back to

Ephesians 5:33 (KJV)
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

being correct not

Ephesians 5:33 (TWIITWOYV)
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she fear her husband.
 
Websters Definition of fear
: an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger
b (1) : an instance of this emotion
(2) : a state marked by this emotion
2: anxious concern : solicitude
: profound reverence and awe especially toward G-d
4: reason for alarm : danger

Multiple meanings and lack of context that leaves the word fear without distinction. At least in the Hebrew and Greek the alternate spelling of the words around it gives a better context sometimes.

Then we have ultimate context that as husbands were suppose to Emulate Yeshua. He was not not wrathful.

Matthew 10:27-31
What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim on the housetops. "Do not fear those who kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gei-Hinnom. Aren't sparrows sold for next to nothing, two for an assarion? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father's consent. As for you, every hair on your head has been counted. So do not be afraid, you are worth more than many sparrows.

The Wrath of G-d is visited on those who harm His people and/or stand against Him. Testing Him is not being faithful therefor its standing against Him.

Matthew 12:30-31
“Those who are not with me are against me, and those who do not gather with me are scattering. Because of this, I tell you that people will be forgiven any sin and blasphemy, but blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh will not be forgiven.

(To answer the Ananias and Saphira question)

Punishment for our sins we deserve and the only reason to fear (have anxeity over) punishment for our sins is if we're trying to not be accountable.

So the only fear of G-d I see that applies to believers is what Yeshua said to fear, destruction of our souls, true death, to be eternally seperated from G-d. If you don't love and revere G-d then eternal seperation from Him wouldn't matter.

Husbands can not destroy a wives soul so according to Yeshua there is to be no fear there.

This leads us back to

Ephesians 5:33 (KJV)
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

being correct not

Ephesians 5:33 (TWIITWOYV)
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she fear her husband.

Ah yes, Webster again. Doesn't that just reinforce my point that this distinction can be made in English but not really in the Biblical texts? I appreciate all of the scriptures but all of them just seem to also reinforce my point. We're to seriously fear God.
 
Husbands can not destroy a wives soul so according to Yeshua there is to be no fear there.

This is actually the closest that anyone has come to a good point yet EXCEPT that if a wife is being commanded by God to fear her husband she's actually fearing God, not her husband. Which is still in keeping with what the text actually says. It's like an onion. The more you peel the more your reveal.
 
So, this thread was started in order to answer @Sean Miller s comment about the wrath of God and how husbands are to example that to their wives. My response to that was that the wrath of God is never to those within covenant or within the household. Only to those without.

For those who have trouble doing a simple word search, I took the liberty of listing every mention of the word wrath in the New Testament.


Matt. 3:7. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luke 3:7. The said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luke 4:28. And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child,†and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 19:28. And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 2:5-8 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious,†and do not obey†the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Romans 4:13. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 5:9&10. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 9:22-25 What if†God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
†Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Romans 12:17-21. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; Iwill repay, saith the Lord.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Romans 13:3,4. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Galatians 5:19-21. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:2-7 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 4:26-32. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Neither give place to the devil
.
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.†.
Let no†corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
And be ye kind one to another,†tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as†God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 5:5-7. For this ye know,†that no†whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Be not ye therefore partakers with them
.

Colossians 3:5-10. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another,†seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man,which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1 Thessalonians 1:9,10. and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2:16. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

1 Thessalonians 5;8,9. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Timothy 2:8. I will therefore that men pray every†where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Hebrews 3:9-12. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebrews 4:2,3. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 11:27. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

James 1:19,20. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.


Rev. 6:16,17. And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Rev. 11:18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev. 12:12. Therefore†rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev. 14:8-10. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev. 14:19. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev. 15:1. And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Rev. 15:7. And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth forever and ever.

Rev. 16:19. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Rev. 18:3. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev. 19:15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 
There is no mention of the wrath of God on any of his people. NONE

There is a couple of mentions of wrath from pagans or Pharisees towards Gods people but not from God.

For those that just skimmed the above post, there are some major cautions for a believer in there.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Gal. 5:19-21. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 4:26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Neither give place to the devil.

Eph 4:30,31. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice

Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

James 1:20. For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Do you still wanna show em the wrath?

Luke 12:45,46. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
 
EXCEPT that if a wife is being commanded by God to fear her husband she's actually fearing God, not her husband.
Please give book, chapter, versus that says that. I like the idea but an unmarried woman can fear G-d and the fact that there's no scripture that backs up that's statement makes that arguement a mute point.

So just to be sure I'm understanding correctly. Phobos a word that can be translated as fear, reverance, respect or awe. Should be translated fear. The original statement was that it was changed to fit a modern feminist veiw. It's was said the verse spoken of was changed from fear (of punishment and/or wrath) to respect and reverence to be feminist freiendly, but in reality was only translated as fear after 1800s during the begging of the suffrage movement, and the rule of thumb was being challanged, possible agenda? I would agree if it had been translated from fear after the feminist movement to respect/reververence, but that is not the case. So that reasoning is bunk. Yet the stance is still that it should be translated as fear, because a few scholars in a hand full of bible translations decided that. No mortal man's decision to translate a word as fear trumps Yeshua telling us not to fear those who cannot destroy body and soul. Unless those scholars are the authority and Yeshua isn't. We have a choice here, either accept what Yeshua said as the truth or follow the teachings of Man. I know I dont have to remind you but others who may be reading might need to be reminded, when scripture seems to contradiction it's self the cause is our interpretation. Here it's the word of Yeshua vs the word of man i.e. the scholars or if your saying that the translation as fear is Authoritive, then it's The Son contradicting The Father.

John 5:19
So Yeshua said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

That shows us that it's not the Father and Son in conflict. That leaves only Man and Yeshua.

Matthew 28:18-20
And Yeshua came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

That shows us who's words care weight, not the scholars who's translation contradicts Yeshua.
 
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