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Has the Sabbath day been lost or do we have it right today?

IshChayil

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ב"ה​
The general belief is that the day known as "Saturday" is the 7th day of the week and always has been.
Of course Jewish tradition begins the day at Sundown on "Friday" since we believe a biblical day starts with darkness. This is based on the Genesis account "and it was evening and it was morning, one day".

There has been an unsubstantiated challenge to the position that the Sabbath is on Saturday.

Defining the bounds of the discussion.
This is not a discussion about if Sunday is the "new" Sabbath or not; we are in the Messianic / Hebrew roots area so it's assumed nobody in this forum believes Sunday is now the Sabbath day; i.e. that G-d licensed changing the original day of rest to "the L-rd's day". This is also not impugning anyone for worshiping G-d on any day of the week. This is not the proper thread to write things like "well as long as you have 1 day of rest per week it doesn't matter which one it is." That's not what Messianics/Hebrew roots believe. We're not making wrong those who hold that popular Christian perspective; it's just not productive in this forum, a haven for torah keepers who have certainly heard arguments against absolute sabbath keeping before.

The simple scope of the discussion is, "is the day known on the Calendar as Saturday, the correct biblical day on which was originally Sabbath as decreed by the Creator, blessed be He".

Since we have not heard any arguments detailing why it's not I will not put forth any arguments now defending this default position.

If you want to participate in this thread and challenge the status quo of Saturday or "yōm š'vīʿī" (7th day) as it's called in the Hebrew tongue, please specifically state your rationale.
Please do not make sweeping statements like "there's a whole lot about this just google lunar sabbath".
If you're going to challenge the accepted position, you need not assign those of us who disagree the task with doing your homework for you. Spell out your arguments clearly please.

We should not be required to go offsite to learn your reasons.
Of course everyone from either position please feel free to chime in with why you believe your position is correct; I'm only saying I won't do it here yet.
If there are no arguments put forward for why we lost the Sabbath day, then the obvious assumption will be that we have not.
šālōm (having fun with my "Alt Latin" transliteration keyboard) :p
 
Being very unsettled about this topic, I am looking forward to iron sharpening iron.

@moshe has teachings that might well belong in this discussion.
 
I don't care to participate in this debate, but as an observer, it seems to me that there are two distinct questions here. For the sake of clarity, and to prevent shifting goalposts, it might help to limit the discussion to mostly one or the other. Or at least be explicit about which one you're arguring for/against.

One is the question of which day of the week. It grants that Sabbath is correctly counted every seventh day, but disagrees over whether the day we call Saturday is still the correct seventh day, or has been corrupted.

The second question is a more basic one over methodology. Is it enough to determine Sabbath simply by counting every seven days, or does (e.g.) the moon need to be somehow taken into account as some type of corrective.
 
I would also like to add:
The lack of evidence it did not change, is evidence that the day is wrong arguement
and
The if you beleive with out proof your are lacking in faith arguement.

Should be avoided.

Statements like these are logic fallacies that serve only to insult the intelligence of proponents of the opposite veiw in an attempt to bring out an illicit response. Please respect each other.

Here is one proponent of a lost lunar Sabbath argument. This is not my argument.

The Argument.

Historical evidence shows that by far the majority of ancient calendars began their year in the spring, at or near the time of the spring (vernal) equinox. The Israelites also used a luni-solar calendar and began their year in the spring. Both their annual feasts and the seventh-day Sabbath were calculated by the lunar-solar calendar that had been established by the Creator at the very beginning of the world.

The Lunar Sabbath in Scripture
The Creator's calendar is a vitally important tool for finding the true seventh-day Sabbath which contains the "seal of G-d." Sometimes called the mark of G-d, it is, more accurately, the seal of G-d: one's pledge of loyalty to the Creator. Scripture reveals that at Creation, both the sun and the moon were given to provide light as well as the means for marking the passage of time. The modern solar calendar does not use the moon for keeping time. Nor does the Hindu or the Muslim lunar calendar use the sun. Only the ancient lunar-solar calendar meets the criteria of using both the sun and the moon in its system of time-keeping.

Many people who keep the feast days listed in Leviticus 23 still observe a Saturday sabbath. They believe that the lunar-solar calendar was used only for the yearly feasts, but that Saturday of the modern solar calendar has come down in a continuous weekly cycle ever since Creation. But this is two different methods of time-keeping! Nowhere in Scripture are two separate and distinct systems of time-keeping mentioned. At Creation, one calendar was established and it required the use of both the sun and the moon.

And . . . [G-d] said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And . . . [G-d] made two great lights; . . . [And He] set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. (Genesis 1:14-18, KJV.)


Right in this passage, in the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible, the principle is established that the two great lights were to be used for marking the time for worship and as a sign, or mark of loyalty to the Creator. The word translated "signs" comes from the Hebrew word ôwth, which means a sign or mark. "This word represents something by which a person or group is characteristically marked. . . . The word means 'sign' as a reminder of one's duty." (See #226, The New Strong's Expanded Dictionary of Bible Words.)

The Sabbath is the sign by which the Creator's people are marked and set apart as different from all others on earth. The Hebrew word that is translated "seasons" is even more revealing. It is the word mo'ed. It is the use of this word that reveals the true Sabbath of Creation is a lunar Sabbath. Mo'ed is the word used specifically to refer to the annual feasts.

Since the Jewish festivals occurred at regular intervals, this word becomes closely identified with them . . . Mo'ed is used in a broad sense for all religious assemblies. It was closely associated with the tabernacle itself . . . [G-d] met Israel there at specific times for the purpose of revealing His will. It is a common term for the worshiping assembly of . . . [G-d] people. (See #4150, "Lexical Aids to the Old Testament," Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible, KJV.)

Far from presenting two different systems of time-keeping, Scripture presents only one: the lunar-solar calendar by which the annual feasts as well as the seventh-day Sabbath, a lunar Sabbath, are to be calculated. Leviticus 23 is a listing of the holy feasts of G-d. From the Spring Anniversaries to the Fall Feasts, Leviticus 23 delineates them all out. But the very first "feast" listed is the weekly feast: the seventh-day Sabbath.

And . . . [G-d] spoke unto Moses, saying, "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of . . . [G-d], which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of . . . [G-d] in all your dwellings." (Leviticus 23:1-3)

From there, G-d went on to list the annual feasts (or mo'edim) but the very first feast He gave was the seventh-day Sabbath.

Lunar Sabbath: A holy day of rest, it is the seventh and last day of each week in a lunation. The weekly cycle restarts with the observation of the first visible crescent moon. Four complete weeks follow New Moon Day.

Psalm 104:19 is yet another witness from Scripture that the seventh-day Sabbath is to be calculated by the moon: "He appointed [created] the moon for seasons." The word here translated "seasons" is, again, mo'edim. The Biblical record is consistent: there is only one method of time-keeping presented in scripture. That is the lunar-solar calendar established by G-d Himself at Creation. This calendar establishes all of the times appointed for worship, the mo'edim. The only Sabbath in scripture is a lunar Sabbath.

The Lunar-Solar Calendar of Scripture
The lunar-solar calendar begins each month with the observance of the first visible crescent of the moon in the western sky after sunset. The very next day is called New Moon Day and it is numbered as the first of the month. (For use of the term "New Moon" in Scripture, see: I Samuel 20:5, 18 & 24; 2 Kings 4:23; Psalm 81:3; Isaiah 66:23; Ezekiel 46:1; and Amos 8:5.)


On the ancient calendar, the seventh-day Sabbath always falls on the same dates of every month. This is a feature of the lunar-solar calendar and the true lunar Sabbath.

On the Biblical lunar-solar calendar, each lunation (or lunar month) always begins with a New Moon day, which is in a class of worship day all by itself. Six work days follow on the second through seventh of the month. The seventh-day Sabbath always falls on the 8th, the 15th, the 22nd and the 29th of every lunar month. This is the reason it is called a lunar Sabbath.

Scripture itself supports this calendar configuration. Every time the seventh-day Sabbath is given a numbered date in the Bible, it always falls on the 8th, the 15th, the 22nd or the 29th of the month. Either the actual date itself is assigned or contextual dates and other details consistently allow for that extrapolation. For example, the story of the Exodus from Egypt contains specific dates and details for three months in a row, all of which have the seventh-day Sabbath falling on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th for each month! These calendar details were confirmed 40 years later at the time of Joshua and again at the crucifixion of the Saviour on Passover.

As mentioned previously, the lunar year is shorter than the solar year and without some means of anchoring the lunar months to the solar year, the seasons would float through the calendar. G-d's method of tying the lunar year to the longer solar year was a beautiful reminder that all their needs were provided for by the loving Creator. Instead of using the spring (or vernal) equinox, the Israelites were to use the ripened barley harvest. G-d sent the "early rain" in the fall for the seed to germinate, and then the "latter rain" was sent in the last month to bring the grain to full maturity. Without rain, there would be no harvest. Thus, the minds of the people were directed to the loving care of their Maker and their hearts filled with gratitude as they recognized His tender care for them.

The true New Year could not begin until after the old solar year had finished. Thus, every two to three years, an extra thirteenth month was intercalated into the year. This was called an embolismic year, because an entire additional month was added to bring the lunations back into alignment with the seasons. Ezekiel provides scriptural proof for the thirteenth month used in embolismic years.

The lunar-solar calendar of Creation is the most accurate method of time-keeping. It is elegant, precise. It is divinely designed time-keeping. Jeremiah 31:35 refers to G-d giving the "ordinances" (or laws) of the moon. The ordinances of divine time-keeping are so simple that the shepherd on the hillside can be as accurate by observation, as the astronomer in his observatory is by calculation. Even the count to Pentecost, which has long confused people because the two specifics of the count seem contradictory, can be accurately figured only by using the lunar-solar calendar.

Jews and the Lunar Sabbath
While it is true that the Jews today worship on a Saturday sabbath, this does not prove that it is the true Sabbath. They did not always worship on the Saturday sabbath. Jewish scholars are very clear that the original method of calendation was different from the modern calendar and that under intense persecution during the fourth century A.D., the Jews gave up their original lunar-solar calendar with its lunar Sabbath. Declaring the new month by observation of the new moon, and the new year by the arrival of spring, can only be done by the Sanhedrin. In the time of Hillell II [4th century C.E.], the last President of the Sanhedrin, the Romans prohibited this practice. Hillel II was therefore forced to institute his fixed calendar, thus in effect giving the Sanhedrin's advance approval to the calendars of all future years. ("The Jewish Calendar and Holidays (incl. Sabbath)": The Jewish Calendar; Changing the Calendar, www.torah.org, emphasis supplied.)

Once the ancient lunar-solar calendar had been set aside, knowledge of the true lunar Sabbath was lost with the acceptance of the pagan Julian calendar.

Lunar Sabbath Lost

These stone fragments of an early Julian calendar clearly show an eight-day week. The Israelites did not use the Julian calendar for finding the seventh-day Sabbath. They used the original lunar-solar calendar of Creation to find the lunar Sabbath.

The calendar of the Roman Republic, like that of the Hebrew calendar, was also a lunar-solar calendar. In 45-46 B.C., Julius Cæsar reformed the original Roman calendar and, with the help of an Alexandrian astronomer, Sosigenes, created a new solar calendar with continuously cycling weeks: the Julian calendar. While the Julian calendar was in use at the time of the Messiah, the Israelites did not use it as the early Julian week was eight days long! The Israelites were still using their original lunar solar calendar and worshipping on the seventh day of its week.

From that time, until the fourth century, Israelites and apostolic Christians continued to use the Biblical calendar for their religious observances. With the rising power of the paganized Christians in Rome, this led to a centuries long battle over when to remember the death and resurrection of the Saviour. The Christians in Rome wished to celebrate the Messiah's resurrection on a day dedicated to the pagan goddess Easter. Apostolic Christians, on the other hand, wished to commemorate Yeshuas death on the original Passover.

The point of contention appeared deceptively simple: Passover versus Easter. The issues at stake, however, were immense. The only way to determine when Passover occurs is to use the Biblical luni-solar calendar, for only by observing the moon can one count to the 14th day following the first visible crescent. Because the seventh-day Sabbath was also calculated from the first visible crescent, a ruling in favor of Easter being observed on a Julian date would also affect the seventh-day Sabbath. (See Biblical Calendar Outlawed: Constantine and the Council of Nicaea.)

Calendars calculate time and at the Council of Nicæa it was decided to set aside Jewish calculation and adopt the pagan Julian calendar. This effectively destroyed knowledge of the lunar Sabbath and substituted the pagan Saturday Sabbath in its place. Jewish scholars admit this fact, too.

In a colorful description of the Council of Nicæa, Jewish scholar Heinrich Graetz wrote:

At the Council of Nice [sic] the last thread was snapped which connected Christianity to its parent stock. The festival of Easter had up till now been celebrated for the most part at the same time as the Jewish Passover, and indeed upon the days calculated and fixed by the Synhedrion [Sanhedrin] in Judæa for its celebration; but in future its observance was to be rendered altogether independent of the Jewish calendar . . . . (History of the Jews, published by the Jewish Publication Society of America, 1893, Vol. II, see pp. 563-564.)

The Council of Nicæa had the most profound, far reaching effect upon the truth of the lunar Sabbath. To this day Catholic scholars base the authority of the Catholic Church on this act of changing the Sabbath from the lunar Sabbath of the lunar-solar calendar to Sunday on the continuously cycling Julian week. The pagan Julian calendar, legislated into place, an entire counterfeit system of religion. Thus the true lunar Sabbath was buried under centuries of tradition and the assumption that the modern week has cycled continuously ever since Creation.

Repair the Breach: Restore the Lunar Sabbath
Isaiah 58 contains a beautiful prophecy of the work to be performed by the final generation. "And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in." (Isaiah 58:12)


The three angels' messages of Revelation 14 contain a call to worship on the true lunar Sabbath of Scripture.

This is the work of those who have pledged their allegiance to the Creator by worshipping Him on His true holy day, the lunar Sabbath. To repair the hole made in G-d's law, to clear away the rubbish of error and tradition, accumulated from centuries of assumption, is the great work committed to the people of the final generation. Revelation contains a three-fold warning, calling all to "Fear . . . [G-d], and give glory to him . . . and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." (See Revelation 14:6-10.)

This subject is of the utmost importance to all now living. The true Sabbath is the mark of loyalty that distinguishes those who are willing to obey from those who cling to tradition and assumption. All should study the subject of the lunar Sabbath, the facts of calendar history that relate to the lunar Sabbath, and pertinent passages from the Bible. The Battle of Armageddon, like everything else in the long-running war between G-d and Lucifer, is fought on the battlefield of worship.

All who desire to honor their Creator will choose to worship Him on the day that He has blessed and set aside: the seventh day of the week on the lunar-solar calendar, the true lunar Sabbath.
 
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Numbers 10:10: “ Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the LORD your God.”

2 Chronicles 8:12-13: “ 12Then Solomon offered burnt offerings unto the LORD on the altar of the LORD, which he had built before the porch, 13Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.”

Psalms 81:3-4: “3Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. 4For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob.”

1 Samuel 20:5 So David said, "Look, tomorrow is the New Moon feast, and I am supposed to dine with the king; but let me go and hide in the field until the evening of the day after tomorrow.


I believe an understanding of the New Moon Feast has to be made to get a clear picture of the Sabbath from a Lunar prospective. And that there could be multiple days of rest at the end of the month between 6 days of work. The Word says that you are to work 6 days and then rest, but it doesn't say anything, except referencing a New Moon day of rest that may fall right after a Sabbath day, about resting more than one day.
 
That is a very good question. Since this was first brought up I've done a little research. I've posted this arguement because it is partly correct.
Jews and the Lunar Sabbath
While it is true that the Jews today worship on a Saturday sabbath, this does not prove that it is the true Sabbath. They did not always worship on the Saturday sabbath. Jewish scholars are very clear that the original method of calendation was different from the modern calendar and that under intense persecution during the fourth century A.D., the Jews gave up their original lunar-solar calendar with its lunar Sabbath. Declaring the new month by observation of the new moon, and the new year by the arrival of spring, can only be done by the Sanhedrin. In the time of Hillell II [4th century C.E.], the last President of the Sanhedrin, the Romans prohibited this practice. Hillel II was therefore forced to institute his fixed calendar, thus in effect giving the Sanhedrin's advance approval to the calendars of all future years. ("The Jewish Calendar and Holidays (incl. Sabbath)": The Jewish Calendar; Changing the Calendar, www.torah.org, emphasis supplied.)
This statement doesn't take in account that there was a Court of three Judges who's job was to correct the calender that the Jews used. Just like how we use a leap year to correct our calender the Jews used Sabbatical years and Jubilees to make the calander changes and do the same thing. Then when you reconcile the methods how the judges would decide the lunar Sabath and the change from the Hebrew calander to Julian calander. It was off by one day. Maketing Sunday according to the Julian Calendar. Then with the switch to the Gregorian and the 11 day numerical a 1 week day shift difference corrects it back to a Saturday Sabbath. There's a work out I'm trying to download. BUT, YOU STILL HAVE TO MAKE THE ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE SEVENTH YEAR. Because of that it actually changes evey seven years if the Saturday is the Sabbath or not then resets.
 
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So this is where I get to feel smug and superior because I have a simple mind and therefore simplify everything. This is in fact very simple.

Let me start off by saying that I am very willing to stand up to Brother Judah when I think he's wrong. There are a couple of reasons why I think Judah is more right than wrong on this.

The first is the command itself. It says that the Sabbath is the seventh day. It doesn't say when the starting point is. It just says that after six days of work we're to take a Sabbath. It will be the same day of the week once the pattern is started. You work for six days and then rest. It doesn't say rest one day out of every seven. It says work six days then rest. So the command itself doesn't reference a starting point or following the exact day that God rested on. That's adding to the Law. The Law says work six days and then rest.

Now here's why I believe Saturday is not only good enough but the actual right day. Jesus observed it. We have an unbroken history and constant Jewish culture since at least that time. We can state with a high degree of confidence that Jesus observed the Saturday Sabbath without protest. Case closed for me.

On top of that we have to remember that God is a just Judge and we can trust His Laws to be simple and clear and easy to not transgress. He wants us to obey Him. He's not trying to trick us. He would not have left something as important as the Sabbath unclear. If it was figured lunarly He would have told us in the Law, not a poem.

So making it Lunar not only adds to the Law but makes void the Law because you would not be observing the Sabbath on a strict 7 day cycle but resetting every now and again

Remember that God did not set up a precise system. He tied His calendar to the harvests and the moons. The system does reset occasionally.

So God tells us to rest after six days of work. We know Christ almost certainly observed the seventh day. There is no mention of the moon in this Law. We're not told in the Law itself to try and figure what the original day was. We're told to rest on every seventh day. Trust the law. It is sufficient to it's purpose and it doesn't need you to fix it.
 
I know that we are to really only to present facts here, but trying to look at this from a simple standpoint, suppose you are on a ship at sea. A major storm comes up and lightning strikes you boat and you lose all power. The storm lasts for days. You lose track of time. Then, you run aground, you swim for safety, and you pass out on the beach. You have no idea how many days you have been out. You wake up, come to your senses, and then thank God He saved you. To honor Him you want to start following the Sabbath because it is obvious you are going to need His help in the deserted island for a really long time. How would you begin to honor the Sabbath based on the information already provided to you in this thread and that is all that you knew?
 
I know that we are to really only to present facts here, but trying to look at this from a simple standpoint, suppose you are on a ship at sea. A major storm comes up and lightning strikes you boat and you lose all power. The storm lasts for days. You lose track of time. Then, you run aground, you swim for safety, and you pass out on the beach. You have no idea how many days you have been out. You wake up, come to your senses, and then thank God He saved you. To honor Him you want to start following the Sabbath because it is obvious you are going to need His help in the deserted island for a really long time. How would you begin to honor the Sabbath based on the information already provided to you in this thread and that is all that you knew?

You would work six days and then rest. God is going to give you a pass on this one. You can sync back up with everyone else when you get rescued Gilligan.
 
So this is where I get to feel smug and superior because I have a simple mind and therefore simplify everything. This is in fact very simple.

Let me start off by saying that I am very willing to stand up to Brother Judah when I think he's wrong. There are a couple of reasons why I think Judah is more right than wrong on this.

The first is the command itself. It says that the Sabbath is the seventh day. It doesn't say when the starting point is. It just says that after six days of work we're to take a Sabbath. It will be the same day of the week once the pattern is started. You work for six days and then rest. It doesn't say rest one day out of every seven. It says work six days then rest. So the command itself doesn't reference a starting point or following the exact day that God rested on. That's adding to the Law. The Law says work six days and then rest.

Now here's why I believe Saturday is not only good enough but the actual right day. Jesus observed it. We have an unbroken history and constant Jewish culture since at least that time. We can state with a high degree of confidence that Jesus observed the Saturday Sabbath without protest. Case closed for me.

On top of that we have to remember that God is a just Judge and we can trust His Laws to be simple and clear and easy to not transgress. He wants us to obey Him. He's not trying to trick us. He would not have left something as important as the Sabbath unclear. If it was figured lunarly He would have told us in the Law, not a poem.

So making it Lunar not only adds to the Law but makes void the Law because you would not be observing the Sabbath on a strict 7 day cycle but resetting every now and again

Remember that God did not set up a precise system. He tied His calendar to the harvests and the moons. The system does reset occasionally.

So God tells us to rest after six days of work. We know Christ almost certainly observed the seventh day. There is no mention of the moon in this Law. We're not told in the Law itself to try and figure what the original day was. We're told to rest on every seventh day. Trust the law. It is sufficient to it's purpose and it doesn't need you to fix it.
Zec, I was about to write "preach it!" but then I realized I'd be a hypocrite since I made fun of peeps in the past for "mic drops" and the such...
Nothing really to add to this. The positive command to "work 6 days" is often overlooked (yes I'm talking to slackers who work just 5 days a week!)
It's just as much a part of the command to rest on the 7th day in that cycle as it is to work the 6.

Also I have yet to see an argument against the "Jesus observed the Saturday Sabbath without protest" argument.

@Kevin @Cap regarding the Julian / Gregorian day swapping; I addressed this already in here and here; I'm assuming you did a bulk copy paste of that case for the lunar sabbath.
Anyway, days of the week did not change as countries adapted the Gregorian calendar (over a period of several centuries), only the DATES of the month, the actual "is it the 11th or the 17th today" changed, not "is it Wednesday or Sunday". How on Earth would churches even have coordinated when was service in such a system.
Case in point: in Russia today (one of the last countries to adopt the Gregorian calendar), the church still celebrates Christmas according to the Julian calendar (jan 7 midnight) because the church never wanted to adapt the Gregorian Calendar, yet their Sunday worship is still on Sunday. This directly supports the argument @ZecAustin made about unbroken Saturday / Sabbath from Yeshua's time.
 
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You would work six days and then rest. God is going to give you a pass on this one. You can sync back up with everyone else when you get rescued Gilligan.

How do you know God would give you a pass? Maybe he ship wrecked you just to test you and see what you would do?
 
Zec, I was about to write "preach it!" but then I realized I'd be a hypocrite since I made fun of peeps in the past for "mic drops" and the such...
Nothing really to add to this. The positive command to "work 6 days" is often overlooked (yes I'm talking to slackers who work just 5 days a week!)
It's just as much a part of the command to rest on the 7th day in that cycle as it is to work the 6.

Also I have yet to see an argument against the "Jesus observed the Saturday Sabbath without protest" argument.

@Kevin @Cap regarding the Julian / Gregorian day swapping; I addressed this already in here and here; I'm assuming you did a bulk copy paste of that case for the lunar sabbath.
Anyway, days of the week did not change as countries adapted the Gregorian calendar (over a period of several centuries), only the DATES of the month, the actual "is it the 11th or the 17th today" changed, not "is it Wednesday or Sunday". How on Earth would churches even have coordinated when was service in such a system.
Case in point: in Russia today (one of the last countries to adopt the Gregorian calendar), the church still celebrates Christmas according to the Julian calendar (jan 7 midnight) because the church never wanted to adapt the Gregorian Calendar, yet their Sunday worship is still on Sunday. This directly supports the argument @ZecAustin made about unbroken Saturday / Sabbath from Yeshua's time.

I find that most of you supporting comments reference back to your own comments.
 
I find that most of you supporting comments reference back to your own comments.
yes it's called efficiency.
Much easier to make a link back to what we already wrote than to rewrite it.
I'm still waiting for you to actually make a single argument of your own to why we're all wrong.
How about actually responding to our arguments?
giddiup
 
If the Sabbath is a requirement, just as the festivals, and so is the new moon day. Why is the new moon day not observed?
 
If the Sabbath is a requirement, just as the festivals, and so is the new moon day. Why is the new moon day not observed?
New moon is observed. There are blessings and such for it (in Judaism) but this has no bearing on when is Sabbath in the 7 day cycle. For believers certainly it has no bearing as Zec mentioned from Jesus to us the days of the week cycle have been solid.
 
yes it's called efficiency.
Much easier to make a link back to what we already wrote than to rewrite it.
I'm still waiting for you to actually make an argument of your own to why we're all wrong.
giddiup

Maybe you missed it but I posted scripture in regard to the new moon and am interested in that to try and find out about the Sabbath. I could be wrong but I haven't seen any scripture from you about your position, just statements about what you believe.

Who is WE, is it BF?
 
New moon is observed. There are blessings and such for it (in Judaism) but this has no bearing on when is Sabbath in the 7 day cycle. For believers certainly it has no bearing as Zec mentioned from Jesus to us the days of the week cycle have been solid.

I have never heard anyone, Jewish, Hebrew roots, Messianic, sacred name, anyone speak of honoring the new moon. Sabbath, yes, overwhelming. Festivals, to a large extent. New moon, never.

In my opinion, the new moon is an important festival to understand the Sabbath
 
@IshChayil I beg to differ when the Julian Calander was day one of the calander was also declared day one of the first week shifting the days of the week back by one. When Pope Gregory was attempting to move Easter and people went to bed Sept 2 and woke up sept 14 with the days of the week shifting ahead by one day as well to give the pope what he wanted and correcting the first shift. Side effect that a 7th day rest on Saturday again. Figuring out the New moon and lining it up with a lunar Sabbath still requires the calander adjustments every seven years.
 
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