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Has the Sabbath day been lost or do we have it right today?

Interesting... I had not heard of the eight day market cycle of early Rome, apparently derived from the Etruscans. Seems to have been replaced gradually by a 7 day week throughout the first 3 centuries AD, and not as a result of Nicea.
 
Kevin said:
Ok ,I highlighted what I thought you were referencing but I wasn't sure. I want to encourage everyone to test every spirit and question everything. Look to scripture find the answers. It's ok if we learn our beleifs are wrong. But until you've exhausted every possibility we don't know, unless G-d sends Rauch Hakodesh to smack you up side the head and say this is the answer, then it's pointless to search any farther.
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Yes, and in the case of Messianics, we'll often trust that our ancestors actually were capable to keep the Sabbath day from being lost :).
I admire your energy!
 
Just so it's known, If you were to asked me to choose the most logical theory and the one that weighs the lightest on me it would be the one @ZecAustin put forth.
 
Barry said:
From new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath— this just means that it will be a gradual process (all people coming to serve Christ) that will occur between the spaces of sabbath worship and education in the Word, from week to week and month to month. It is and will continue to be a gradual sanctification of all people (who are not chosen for destruction. )
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Thin but I'll let it go. So where does it say that the new moon is signifying the Sabbath? I'll let the tortured mental gymnastics go on applying this retroactively to the Sabbath but you still haven't connected the new moon and the Sabbath.

Maybe that roles out gradually too? All this very non specific verse says is that there are new moons and Sabbaths. It doesn't say how or if they relate to each other.

On the other side we have hundreds of references to the Sabbath as the seventh day so I'm still not feeling my Saturdays being assailed here. In fact there feeling decidedly unassailed and probably unassailable. Especially if this is the best you have.
 
rockfox said:
I have a hard time believing the Council at Nicaea changed the calendar;
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Confirmed they didn't. Constantine changed the 'day of rest' from the 8th day of the 8 day week (the market day called 'Nones') to the 1st day of the 7 day week ('Sunday'). Sunday was also the name for the 1st day of the week in the 8 day week.

This wasn't done by the Council of Nicaea, which came a few years later. Though the Council of Laodicea later decreed it for the church and prohibited Saturday Sabath observance. So this makes me question the authenticity of sources pinning this on Nicaea (unless for some reason they spoke on the subject as well). It speaks somewhat to the pop history idea of blaming everything on Constantine via Nicaea.

Before Laodicea, many churches held events on both Saturday and Sunday.
 
As I am reading all the replys, I am thinking about our trips to Israel. Everything shuts down on Shabbat in Jerusalem and many other places in Israel. The bible says, six days you shall labor and the seventh you shall rest. The 1st day is Yom Rishon, (Sunday), and the seventh is Shabbat, (Saturday). The Jews have been doing this for years. Who are we to say they are wrong? What I do believe is that when Yeshua comes back, he will set us ALL straight. There will be no more of I'm right and you're wrong.
 
rockfox said:
Confirmed they didn't. Constantine changed the 'day of rest' from the 8th day of the 8 day week (the market day called 'Nones') to the 1st day of the 7 day week ('Sunday'). Sunday was also the name for the 1st day of the week in the 8 day week.

This wasn't done by the Council of Nicaea, which came a few years later. Though the Council of Laodicea later decreed it for the church and prohibited Saturday Sabath observance. So this makes me question the authenticity of sources pinning this on Nicaea (unless for some reason they spoke on the subject as well). It speaks somewhat to the pop history idea of blaming everything on Constantine via Nicaea.

Before Laodicea, many churches held events on both Saturday and Sunday.
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I like the new testament story where it says "Paul kept going on and on" then the guy falls asleep and falls, haha.
Anyone relate ?
Anyway, this was quite common in the synagogue and is quite common to do Saturday and Sunday, though Saturday recognized as the rest day.
We'll end the Sabbath service when 3 stars are visible (or a set time in cases of cloud cover), do a havdalah service distinguishing holy from profane, sabbath from first day, etc. That havdalah service (short) takes place evening after Sabbath ,i.e. Sunday.
Usually many people stay later discussing things I imagine it would have been the same for the 1st believers and that poor fella who fell asleep as Paul went on and on :p

My dad used to complain how his Sundays were gone also because Shabbat was well shabbat service and Sunday was "Sunday School" meaning Hebrew school
 
steve said:
Being very unsettled about this topic, I am looking forward to iron sharpening iron.

@moshe has teachings that might well belong in this discussion.
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I have found and confirmed that Saturday and the modern week is the same as in Messiah's time...basically the DSS recorded moon phases on specific weekdays, numbered and they match our modern week...shalom
 
Cap said:
If the Sabbath is a requirement, just as the festivals, and so is the new moon day. Why is the new moon day not observed?
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The hebrew for month is chodesh not moon; thus 30 solar days constitute a chodesh.
 
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