Hello from Netherlands

[Phillip]

Why do you judge your brothers and sisters? Why do you treat us with contempt? Verse 10

As you read, you will see that God calls us all to different purposes. Some are convicted to not eat meat, some have no problem eating meat. (Possibly due to blood type diets)

Verse 4, I suggest you contemplate that verse.

God has shown many that plural marriage is biblical. Others have not been shown this. To those who have not received this revelation, that’s fine. Time and a loving teaching can produce fruit. Personally, I gag when a preacher tries to shove something into my spirit.

Romans 14:1-13
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.
2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
11 It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Even God doesn’t want condemnation

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

There are many other scriptures that deal with judging others, and why not to judge others. Kinda like, a lest you be judged kind of thing.

 

[FollowingHim]

The first question is a ''YES'' and the other question is a ''YES''.

So, you are saying that if somebody disobeys God in anything, even in complete ignorance, even though they thought they were doing what was right, they will still go to hell even though they intended to do what was right.

If that is the case, who in history has been saved?

• Every illiterate Christian throughout the Middle Ages is in hell, because they had to rely on what a priest told them God said (which we'd no doubt agree was in some areas incorrect) and had no opportunity to check this against scripture, so they will have sinned through ignorance and died in their sins.
• Every Christian who has preached monogamy only, especially anyone who has told a man to leave his mistress and be faithful only to his first wife, even though they did this because they genuinely believed this was what God would want, is in hell. That means virtually every name in the history of Christianity bar a handful of unusual exceptions (ie Calvin's in hell, maybe Milton isn't but he's probably there for some other reason). And every name in recent history (Billy Graham for instance). All burning in hell because they were really close and did lots of good stuff but got some detail wrong somewhere so none of it matters to God, they're just evil sinners.
• Is it a sin to eat pork, in your understanding? If so, is every Christian who happens to consume pork completely unintentionally, e.g. as gelatine in a sweet or as pork casing on a lamb sausage, so never thinks to repent of it as they never even realised they did it, going to hell?

So God treats His Bride like this guy treats his women:

Can you name a single person in all the history of the church, other than those mentioned in the Bible, whom you are fairly confident is saved?

And if you, despite your great efforts to be perfect, are actually mistaken on something and are sinning without realising you are, and die tonight without repenting for this thing you didn't even know was wrong, you'll go to hell too?

Then how can anybody have assurance of salvation?

 

[Jennifer]

Have you repented for not providing the basic necessities for your wives? Doesn't sound like you hold down a job. You owe that to them. Can't use preaching as an excuse to abdicate your obligations. Perhaps you are not meant to be married because it seems to lead you into sin. Two failed marriages. Wife complaining that you do not support her. If your religion does not allow for any mistake, you are in danger of hell if you don't remedy this issue. I would be furious if a man told me I could not drive, work etc, yet he did not provide for me.

 

[Jennifer]

What were you doing with another man's wife? You said she had children. If we are going to hold to a strict understanding of scripture, she was not available to you. She belongs to another man, the father of her children.

 

[mystic]

This thread is an interesting display of rhetorical technique.

The following are not unusual in BF's forums:

• Long posts
• Biblical references
• Repetition
• Dogmatic rants

What's striking from Johan is the assumed tone of control. Two instances of note are the beginning and ending of his first post.

• "You can call me [name]"
• "If [condition], then you can contact me, read my statuses and come with questions."

Plenty of other starkly declarative remarks are sandwiched between those. I suppose his intent (conscious or otherwise) is that the reader, being mentally numbed by the onslaught, will fail to notice the silliness of his presuming to give others permission to read and reply to his posts.

One very specific technique for manipulating and controlling people, which Johan deploys with magnificent assurance, is the asking of questions. A psychiatrist in my family who is well-acquainted with such manipulations pointed out to me long ago that the person getting others to answer his questions is the one in control. For instance, when a child persistently asks "why" when directed in his behavior, the parent must have enough backbone to not always answer.

Johan is entirely disingenuous in his questioning but he is able to distract others from seeing this, because he also knows how to:

• put people off-balance by being aggressive
• distract by invoking religious language
• take advantage of people's desire to be nice and avoid confrontation

The taunting that Johan deploys is impressive. I'm reminded of this passage in Luke 7 (and Matthew 11): "They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept."

Should I have attempted to answer his question, for instance, about whether I regard myself as "one of those who have gone before"? Nobody would think for a moment that the question is sincere but a person not paying attention might nevertheless be led to think Johan feels genuine umbrage that ought to be addressed. Not so. This guy knows exactly what he's doing.

Johan presents in a way that reminds me of another street preacher, a very street-wise and manipulative man who left a trail of destruction in the lives of some people I knew. I mention this not to throw light on Johan's rhetorical style — I never met that other guy or heard him speak — but to tell you the sort of place I think Johan's story is headed.

Any sociopath can type nice, religious-sounding stuff into this website (or not-so-nice in the case of Johan). Am I judging him wrongly? Here's what I think:

If a guy strode into a BF picnic loudly proclaiming, "Praise the Lord!" and all that good stuff while waving a loaded pistol at people, I like to think I'd have my foot on the back of that guy's neck in a flash — and I doubt I'd be alone. No one cares what teaching of Jesus he's hollering when such a dangerous fool demonstrates his intent to forcibly take over.

Johan has attempted the verbal equivalent of that and I feel no need to be nice about it.

BUT — this is the Internet. A web forum. What counts as a counter-assault in the real world is just a waste of energy here. I really don't think there's anything to be gained by attempting to confront Johan, or even directly acknowledge his hectoring.

I'll share one more thought, a bit of advice I received back in my missionary days: If someone asks you a question and then argues with your answer, they didn't really want to know. It's okay at that point to say, "There seems to be a misunderstanding. We were under the impression you were interested in our message. Since you're not, we're leaving now." I've exited from conversation with Johan; now I'm just talking with some of my friends about what happened so we can all learn from it.

 

[Johan Paulsson]

Paul was a solider for Christ. Imprisoned and eventually decapitated for his beliefs. His approach that won so many over was: "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some" (1 Corinthians 9:22).

What do you want to say with 1 Corinthians 9:22?

Are you saying that we need to become Drunkards in order to reach drunkards?
Are you saying that we need to become Smokers in order to reach smokers?
Are you saying that we need to become Homosexuals in order to reach homosexuals?
Are you saying that we need to become Muslims in order to reach Muslims?
Are you saying that we need to become Atheists in order to reach Atheists?
Are you saying that we need to become Agnostics in order to reach Agnostics?
Are you saying that we need to become Hindus in order to reach Hindus?
Are you saying that we need to become Buddhists in order to reach Buddhists?
Are you saying that we need to become Adulterers in order to reach adulterers?
Are you saying that we need to become Liars in order to reach liars?
Are you saying that we need to become Fornicators in order to reach fornicators?
Are you saying that we need to become Rapists in order to reach rapists?
Are you saying that we need to become Drug Addicts in order to reach drug addicts?

etc.

I am asking you in order to get any clarity in what you think and believe The Apostle Paul meant with these words used in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

Because many people could say that this verse in 1 Corinthians 9:22 means:

- ''We need to become drunkards in order to reach drunkards''
- ''We need to become smokers in order to reach smokers''
- ''We need to become homosexuals in order to reach homosexuals''
- ''We need to become Muslims in order to reach Muslims''
- ''We need to become Atheists in order to reach Atheists''
- ''We need to become Agnostics in order to reach Agnostics''
- ''We need to become Hindus in order to reach Hindus''
- ''We need to become Buddhists in order to reach Buddhists''
- ''We need to become Adulterers in order to reach adulterers''
- ''We need to become Liars in order to reach liars''
- ''We need to become Fornicators in order to reach fornicators''
- ''We need to become Rapists in order to reach rapists''
- ''We need to become Drug Addicts in order to reach drug addicts''

etc.

What is your understanding of ''I have become all things to all people''?

It is important and necessary that you be clear with what you mean.

Hopefully you do not believe that The Apostle Paul adopted their lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors, as that would go against what The Apostle teaches in other parts of his letters.

There are no contradictions inside the scripture, so hopefully you do not contradict The Apostle Paul in his letters.

 

[Phillip]

What do you want to say with 1 Corinthians 9:22?

Are you saying that we need to become Drunkards in order to reach drunkards?
Are you saying that we need to become Smokers in order to reach smokers?
Are you saying that we need to become Homosexuals in order to reach homosexuals?
Are you saying that we need to become Muslims in order to reach Muslims?
Are you saying that we need to become Atheists in order to reach Atheists?
Are you saying that we need to become Agnostics in order to reach Agnostics?
Are you saying that we need to become Hindus in order to reach Hindus?
Are you saying that we need to become Buddhists in order to reach Buddhists?
Are you saying that we need to become Adulterers in order to reach adulterers?
Are you saying that we need to become Liars in order to reach liars?
Are you saying that we need to become Fornicators in order to reach fornicators?
Are you saying that we need to become Rapists in order to reach rapists?
Are you saying that we need to become Drug Addicts in order to reach drug addicts?

etc.

I am asking you in order to get any clarity in what you think and believe The Apostle Paul meant with these words used in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

Because many people could say that this verse in 1 Corinthians 9:22 means:

- ''We need to become drunkards in order to reach drunkards''
- ''We need to become smokers in order to reach smokers''
- ''We need to become homosexuals in order to reach homosexuals''
- ''We need to become Muslims in order to reach Muslims''
- ''We need to become Atheists in order to reach Atheists''
- ''We need to become Agnostics in order to reach Agnostics''
- ''We need to become Hindus in order to reach Hindus''
- ''We need to become Buddhists in order to reach Buddhists''
- ''We need to become Adulterers in order to reach adulterers''
- ''We need to become Liars in order to reach liars''
- ''We need to become Fornicators in order to reach fornicators''
- ''We need to become Rapists in order to reach rapists''
- ''We need to become Drug Addicts in order to reach drug addicts''

etc.

What is your understanding of ''I have become all things to all people''?

It is important and necessary that you be clear with what you mean.

Hopefully you do not believe that The Apostle Paul adopted their lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors, as that would go against what The Apostle teaches in other parts of his letters.

There are no contradictions inside the scripture, so hopefully you do not contradict The Apostle Paul in his letters.

There is no need for her to answer you. Your questions are sarcasm. Not worthy of a response.

That being said, she quoted scripture. If you don’t understand that, open yourself to new ideas. Scriptural new ideas. As you read the scriptures, than can. Come a living document, helping you learn things of the Lord.

The condescending nature of your questions is remarkable beyond belief. I personally find this site intriguing, enlightening and sometimes provocative. However, the discussions here are unique to any site I’ve ever seen. And I enjoy it.

But, when you start up such sarcastic questioning and very close to an attempt of correcting one of the ladies here, you go too far. You can cuss me out , chew me out and hit me with a fist. But be more respectful to the ladies.

 

[Jennifer]

To lighten the mood...

 

[Johan Paulsson]

There is no need for her to answer you. Your questions are sarcasm. Not worthy of a response.

That being said, she quoted scripture. If you don’t understand that, open yourself to new ideas. Scriptural new ideas. As you read the scriptures, than can. Come a living document, helping you learn things of the Lord.

The condescending nature of your questions is remarkable beyond belief. I personally find this site intriguing, enlightening and sometimes provocative. However, the discussions here are unique to any site I’ve ever seen. And I enjoy it.

But, when you start up such sarcastic questioning and very close to an attempt of correcting one of the ladies here, you go too far. You can cuss me out , chew me out and hit me with a fist. But be more respectful to the ladies.

What an arrogant, rude, judgmental, unloving, hateful and disrespectful response to what I have said and asked.

Where is your love and tolerance? No love and no tolerance?

I do not hit you with a fist. I am not a cannibal. I do not use foul language.

I am better than that.

I do judge you according to the scripture and according to the scripture you do not have the fruit of the Spirit.

I know your spirit already. Coming against me for sure shows and proves your bad fruit.

Do what you can to show respect to me and I will for sure show respect to you.

I show respect to those who are showing respect to me, is this reasonable and rational?
You do not understand and neither know how respect works?

If you are saying and doing anything that I consider against the moral standard of God, why would I respect you? And seeing you coming against me, why would I respect you when you do not want to take me seriously?

You will not find one scripture where The Prophets, Jesus Christ and The Apostles respected sinners and unbelievers for coming against the moral standard of God.

You can find where The Prophets, Jesus Christ and The Apostles rebuked, judged, corrected, exposed, confronted and reproved sinners and unbelievers for their sins and unbelief.

If anything you say and do are contrary the moral standard of God then I am willing to confront you, rebuke you, judge you, correct you, expose you and reprove you openly for your words and actions.

You can laugh, be frustrated and be angry all you want as you have a free will in how to respond to a message.

It won't help you though on the day of judgment when THE LORD will judge each person according to their words, thoughts, actions and intentions.

Stop being socially correct. Use common sense and your own conscience.

Open rebuke is better than secret love, according to the scripture.

The best I can do when/if mockers comes and do not want to take me seriously is to confront them for their mocking, disrespectful and judgmental behavior and attitude.

I have no problems with being judgmental and disrespectful as long as being judgmental and disrespectful is according to the scripture. I am myself judgmental and disrespectful and having no problems with these words as long as a person disrespect and judge in a righteous, moral, Godly and in a holy way.

Everytime you speak against me you disrespect me, because that is not the response I want to see from you.

What I truly want to see is understanding, knowledge and wisdom coming from you, but this is not what I see coming from you for the moment.

You lack the fear of THE LORD. This is a big problem in your life and in many other people's lives.

If people are judgmental and disrespectful because they are socially correct and because they want to keep on in their pride, disobedience and rebellion, then I do have a problem with them being judgmental and disrespectful.

True Biblical families are families who:

1. FEAR THE LORD
2. LOVE THE LORD
3. FOLLOW THE LORD
4. HATE/ABHOR SIN AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS
5. HATE/ABHOR SINNERS AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS
--> See Proverbs 6:16-19, Psalm 5:4-6 and Psalm 11:4-6 how THE LORD does not only hate sin, but also hate the person committing the sin
6. RESPECT THE LORD
7. WALK IN THE SPIRIT
8. HAVE THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
9. LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR ONE ANOTHER
10. HAVING ALL THINGS COMMON TOGETHER WITH ONE ANOTHER
11. LOVE ONE ANOTHER
12. LOVE THEIR ENEMIES
13. ABSTAIN FROM ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL
14. DISRESPECT SINNERS AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS
15. RESPECT SAINTS AND THE RIGHTEOUS
16. SEPARATES THEMSELVES FROM THIS WORLD
17. FORGIVE CONDITIONALLY BASED ON REPENTANCE AND TURNING FROM SIN
18. WALK BY FAITH
19. PURSUE HOLINESS
20. DO RIGHTEOUSNESS

etc.

There was a wise and understanding King called Asa.

King Asa had a perfect heart before THE LORD and did that which was right before THE LORD.

You agree with the scripture concerning this?

King Asa destroyed his mother's idol and removed his mother from being queen.

So disrespectful and judgmental toward a woman, right?

Idolatry is a sin, which many people are living in for the moment.
Idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God, acording to the scripture.

Can you believe and trust in this?

You obviously, clearly and evidently do not respect me for my questions sake, and you want me to respect you?

Respect is earned, right? Do you consider yourself to be earn my respect when you are not taking me seriously and neither showing me any respect for my questions?

Honest and sincere questions are not welcome?

I am showing questions on how people can interpret the passage in 1 Corinthians 9:22 to mean something that it does not say, as well as other passages can be used in order to twist and interpret in a way it does not say.

Whether you believe it or not and whether you trust me or not, I do wonder if she is is agreeing with those who has come to this conlusion concerning 1 Corinthians 9:22.

She calls herself a ''lutherangirl'' which I take as she is a Lutheran and therefore going after the doctrines of Martin Luther.

I know very much what Lutherans believe and think as I have dealt with Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminians, Catholics and Orthodox many times before.

These people are pretty much speaking about the same things. They all believe in works based salvation in one way or another, even though Lutherans, Arminians and Calvinists may claim it is not works based salvation.

You know perfectly, if you have read and studied the scripture and if you have listened and read to what people believes in nowadays, that people can twist and misinterpret the scripture and make it say what it does not say.

Of course my questions needs to be answered just as I do answer the questions coming from others who are mocking me and hating me.

Just because you do not like what I ask that does not mean you are right in disrespecting me for my questions sake. My questions are sincere and honest.

You may see these questions as ridiculous, absurd and stupid, but these questions are important and necessary to be responded.

Are you socially correct and socially inclined? Jesus Christ was not socially correct, socially inclined, at all.

Anyone can interpret scriptures and come to weird conclusions. You do not know and understand this?

I truly hope you change your attitude and behavior, and repent from your judgmental and disrespectful attitude and behavior.

I should show respect to people who do not respect me?

Jesus Christ did not respect sinners and unbelievers always.

Jesus Christ confronted, rebuked, corrected, exposed and judged people according to their words, thoughts and actions. This needs to be established as a truth in your life, in your heart and in your mind.

 

[Pacman]

I was trying to stay out of this one but I can't take it anymore. @Johan Paulsson you need to lighten up.

You have presented false doctrine here and have also been rude and judgmental of other believers here. Then when you are challenged about both of those things you retort by claiming victim status and lashing out in judgment of those who challenged you.

Get over yourself you are not perfect no one is.

Most here myself included are perfectly willing to engage in conversation with folks we disagree with and when presented with objective scriptural truth I am willing to change my stand on things. But your contentious style of interacting with people is not going to aid anyone in changing their mind on things or edifying the believers.

 

[Mage]

@Johan Paulsson, I wish I had the time this morning to point out your logical fallacies and your doctrinal inconsistencies. Maybe I will tonight.

Right now you come across as someone that is trying to justify their treatment of others and hoping to find someone that will validate your suffering. You seem to have set up a sheild around yourself, and understandably given your history, that is making it difficult for your brothers in Christ to help guide and teach you.

 

[Mojo]

Friends,
I'm generally a nice guy, but in this instance, I would say that you're all wasting your time. Johan was insincere from the beginning. He claimed to want to hear and be open to others' counsel but in reality, he is open to nobody's wisdom but his own. This is primarily a site dedicated to helping others understand about the doctrines of family and polygyny. Our friend is interested in talking about.....himself. He's not as perfect as he claims because he is a deceiver, just looking to get a rise, not a reasoned response. Claiming himself to be wise, he is showing himself to be a fool.

Don't answer his questions, don't expect him to answer yours without a manifesto in each response. @mystic is correct in that Those long responses help to mask some of the more outlandish things, drawing you further into his trap.

He's a sad and lonely man who can't keep a woman or a wife. Judging by his temperament, the only women he can almost keep are ones he interacts with on the Internet....if they even really are women.... He may even be masking his secret desire to talk to men pretending to be women. We don't know if his internet romances are even real. That's definitely not the qualities of a polygynous patriarch.

Johan needs prayer mare than anything else. Ignore his questions, and he'll leave you alone. If he was a real "patriarchal" man, he would have no problem interacting on the rest of the forum in an educated and wise fashion. He won't, because he can't. The only things he can add are his single note rantings.

Peace

 

[Phillip]

To lighten the mood...

I shared the squirrel phrases with my adult daughters. They loved it.

 

[lutherangirl]

"And they will know we are Christians by our love by our love..." This is a song that I learned in Sunday school, being raised Lutheran. Martin Luther was human that erred just like the rest of us; however, his Reformation movement was remarkable! I believe if he wasn't on the run for his life, he would have made even more changes for the better. It's not what you say it's how you say it saying it being led by the Spirit.

 

[Phillip]

What an arrogant, rude, judgmental, unloving, hateful and disrespectful response to what I have said and asked.

Ya, you are correct, I’m not showing you respect. So far, there’s no reason to. Respect us earned. 9 years working in Uraq and Afghanistan with the military and State Department taught me much about respect. When I worked on the Titan II ICBM’s, the leader in a given task was the most knowledgeable, not the highest rank. So, respect for you, nope, I don’t have any.

You have told us that you are judging and disrespectful when you Demi necessary, which appears to be pretty much a constant. The Bible says in Mathew 7:

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

You get angry with others for judging you and you openly confess you judge others. Verse 5 describes your inconsistency best in this manner. By the way, there are dozens of other scripture regarding how we should not judge.

BTW, lutherngirl, I liked your post. Ya done good.

You wrote a question, ‘Respect is earned, Right?’ Yes it is, so far you haven’t earned it.

I don’t have time to respond to your most recent book, but in this current response I wanted to be judgmental toward you about your judging others. I am such a hypocrite and I’ll do five Our Fathers and 10 Hail Mary’s later on. Until then, just being like you brother.

 

[Johan Paulsson]

I was trying to stay out of this one but I can't take it anymore. @Johan Paulsson you need to lighten up.

You have presented false doctrine here and have also been rude and judgmental of other believers here. Then when you are challenged about both of those things you retort by claiming victim status and lashing out in judgment of those who challenged you.

Get over yourself you are not perfect no one is.

Most here myself included are perfectly willing to engage in conversation with folks we disagree with and when presented with objective scriptural truth I am willing to change my stand on things. But your contentious style of interacting with people is not going to aid anyone in changing their mind on things or edifying the believers.

You prove unwillingness to change as you are falsely accusing me of false doctrine.
What you have said about yourself is false and untrue.

You see me talking here and now with people who I definitely do not see as Christians and Believers in Jesus Christ. I do not want to justify the wicked.

You better read and study the scripture and what I have already said.

Be like a good Berean who study and read the scripture and can take corrections.

You are not a Believer in Jesus Christ and has never been a Believer in Jesus Christ.
You accused me of false doctrine and has never proven me wrong.

False accusations will not work on the day of judgment.

Brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ are those who are doing the will of THE LORD.

You are not doing the will of THE LORD while being/coming against moral and sinless perfection.

You come with pride and rebellion, not with a humble spirit.

Your actions and words proves the opposite of what you have said about yourself.

This is what often happens when your lifestyle is not according to the scripture and someone comes and destroys your false religion and false belief system.

What is happening in a person who has been confronted for his sins and unrighteousness?
Getting defensive and continue in his pride or humble himself and take corrections?

I have given scriptures for what I stand for and behind.

Read my words and you see I use scriptures and being consistent with the scripture.

You do not love these scriptures that I have brought up.

This proves your hatred for the scripture and your hatred for me as a person.

It is clear and evident that you are the one who is denying and rejecting the scriptures that I have already shown for you and all who read this.

You can better than this. I believe in you to do good works done by faith perfectly.

I do not want you to disobey THE LORD by coming against me.

Use common sense. Use your free will to do what is right and good and your conscience.

Stop misusing your free will. Use your conscience. Stop searing your conscience.

Sinners, unbelievers, the unrighteous, evildoers, the ungodly and workers of iniquity are condemned by the scripture, and you are obviously, clearly and evidently not a believer in Jesus Christ based on your false accusations.

There are plenty of scriptures that speaks against sinners, the unrighteous, evildoers, the ungodly, unbelievers, and workers of iniquity. And you are clearly a sinner based on your words to me.

Of course you are uneducated and unlearned as long as you are speaking without knowledge, without wisdom and without understanding.

You say ''You have presented false doctrine here'', but you have not proven me wrong in anything I have said so far.

I have accepted the challange and responding according to the scripture with confronting you for your sins and unrighteousness.

I have given scriptures, but you deny and reject these scriptures or twisting/changing these scriptures.

This is not sinful and neither unrighteous what I am saying to you.

I am sinless and morally perfect, as I have repented from all sin and from all unrighteousness and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all sin and from all unrighteousness.

I am morally perfect and sinless as long as I am not committing and practicing sin against:

- THE WILL OF THE LORD
- THE SCRIPTURE
- THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD
- THE LAW OF THE LORD

Get over your belly. You are serving your own belly, not serving THE LORD.

If you are not morally perfect then you are disobeying THE LORD, and then you are unrighteous and the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of THE LORD.

Humble yourself before THE LORD. Stop your pride.

Just because you call my doctrines as false does not mean my doctrines are false.
I can prove you wrong by scriptures.

And also, if you have no experience with street preaching then you have no credibility whatsoever to teach anyone anything.

 

[Johan Paulsson]

"And they will know we are Christians by our love by our love..." This is a song that I learned in Sunday school, being raised Lutheran. Martin Luther was human that erred just like the rest of us; however, his Reformation movement was remarkable! I believe if he wasn't on the run for his life, he would have made even more changes for the better. It's not what you say it's how you say it saying it being led by the Spirit.

Lutherans do not love THE LORD and neither their neighbour and nor their enemies.

Lutherans hate THE LORD. Lutherans hate consistency with the scripture.

According to Lutherans they are sinners. Sinners are sinful.

Sinners are not loving THE LORD.

Martin Luther was a heretic, a hypocrite and an idolater.

Anyone standing for and behind Martin Luther is a fool and a child of the devil.

Here do you see why Lutherans are not the children of God, but the children of the devil:

1 John 3:6-18 King James Version (KJV)

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
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Martin Luther was not a good man, neither a Christian man and neither a Believing man.

Martin Luther was a sinner.

You better repent from Lutheranism if you want to save your own life.

The scripture says this in Acts 2 which proves you can save your own life:

Acts 2:40 King James Version (KJV)
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Anyone telling you that you can not save yourself is a liar and the truth is not in him.
Stop your rebellion and disobedience and come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Johan Paulsson]

Friends,
I'm generally a nice guy, but in this instance, I would say that you're all wasting your time. Johan was insincere from the beginning. He claimed to want to hear and be open to others' counsel but in reality, he is open to nobody's wisdom but his own. This is primarily a site dedicated to helping others understand about the doctrines of family and polygyny. Our friend is interested in talking about.....himself. He's not as perfect as he claims because he is a deceiver, just looking to get a rise, not a reasoned response. Claiming himself to be wise, he is showing himself to be a fool.

Don't answer his questions, don't expect him to answer yours without a manifesto in each response. @mystic is correct in that Those long responses help to mask some of the more outlandish things, drawing you further into his trap.

He's a sad and lonely man who can't keep a woman or a wife. Judging by his temperament, the only women he can almost keep are ones he interacts with on the Internet....if they even really are women.... He may even be masking his secret desire to talk to men pretending to be women. We don't know if his internet romances are even real. That's definitely not the qualities of a polygynous patriarch.

Johan needs prayer mare than anything else. Ignore his questions, and he'll leave you alone. If he was a real "patriarchal" man, he would have no problem interacting on the rest of the forum in an educated and wise fashion. He won't, because he can't. The only things he can add are his single note rantings.

Peace

You have proven no openness to change your doctrines and lifestyle. Repent.

 

[Phillip]

You call me a sinner. You betcha I’m a sinner, forgiven, saved by grace, thru faith, in Christ Jesus.

As for my saying you have ‘false doctrines’, nope. Never said that. Do you always add things that people neve said to argue your case? Kinda sounds like a lie to me and you said liers will not enter the kingdom of God. Or they’re going to hell or something like that.

You say you give scripture. Some, but in this latest rant of yours no scripture was used.

You say I am uneducated and unlearned. “Golly gee bubba, I’m studyin to get my degree now. Momma always said I could get my 8th grade degree if I worked at it!” Kinda condescending of you to say I am uneducated and unlearned.

I would suggest, if you do not have thick enough skin, refrain from saying aggressive words and responses and people would react in a more kindly manner.

 

[FollowingHim]

Ok, I've had about enough of this nonsense now. I've been trying to actually discuss your theology @Johan Paulsson, but you've stopped responding to me.
Are you going to respond to my latest post?

Read your own words. You see this in others simply because it is who you are yourself:

You come with pride and rebellion, not with a humble spirit.

You better read and study the scripture and what I have already said.
Be like a good Berean who study and read the scripture and can take corrections.

Humble yourself before THE LORD. Stop your pride.

Johan, to be completely frank, you just look like a monkey throwing his own shit at people. You can do what you like, but we have absolutely no obligation to provide you a tree to perch in and throw it from. So, start talking politely, or you'll lose access to the forum.

And then you'll think "they hate me just like the police hate me, whenever I preach on the streets I get arrested, and these guys are just the same because they're not true Christians and are filled with hate to true and perfect Christians like me". Which is complete nonsense, but you'll think that anyway because of your arrogant victim mentality. Sadly I have no idea how to get through your thick head and show you that we love you.

So get back on-track, start talking about theology rather than insulting your elders and insulting our wives, choose to humble yourself willingly, or force those elders to forcibly put you in your place so we can continue to "feed the flock of God" that is here and actually want to sincerely learn from each other (1 Peter 5:1-7).