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How should I go about this?

dtt said:
I would not mind reading the Quran with a Muslim wife (if I was her husband) so long as she is willing to read the Bible with me.
Same here, except for one problem...
2 Corinthians 6:14 NKJV (14) Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
Of course, if a man had married a Muslim wife before he became a born-again Christian, that admonition would not mean that the believing husband must put her away, because of what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15.

But it is not likely that a Muslim woman would marry a non-Muslim man anyway. Her father (or her brothers, if her father is dead) would be obligated to kill her for such rebellion.
 
PolyDoc said:
dtt said:
I would not mind reading the Quran with a Muslim wife (if I was her husband) so long as she is willing to read the Bible with me.
Same here, except for one problem...
2 Corinthians 6:14 NKJV (14) Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
Of course, if a man had married a Muslim wife before he became a born-again Christian, that admonition would not mean that the believing husband must put her away, because of what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15.

But it is not likely that a Muslim woman would marry a non-Muslim man anyway. Her father (or her brothers, if her father is dead) would be obligated to kill her for such rebellion.

You can't kill what you can't find, can you? She could run away, because she would always have to watch her back anyway if she had a father like that who knew where she lived anyway. And besides all that her husband could keep Sura 4:34 anyway, so she would be much happier with a nice Christian man, don't you think.

As I understand it Christian men are not allowed to refuse sex whenever their wive(s) request it (at least not to the point where it makes the wives tempted or uncomfortably burning with passion) except for when a stronger rule over-rides that rule, etc. unlike Sura 4:34 where Muslim men are allowed to refuse sex for the express purpose of punishing their wives with misery.

Also Christians are not allowed to beat their wives except maybe to pull them out of a burning building, etc. but Sura 4:34 allows wife beating.

By the way I heard that some Sunni fathers would rather have their daughter marry a Christian than a practitioner of shia (I do not know how to spell that if it is shi'ite or what?)

And 2 Corinthians 6:14 does not forbid Christians from marrying non-Christians in all circumstances from how I understand it. In fact as I understand it, it does not pertain to marriage or even avoiding non-believers. As I understand it, it has to do with not letting people have a unequally stronger yoking or interconnected influence on you such that they influence you to sin, more than if you were not yoked with them or than if you were yoked with them in a different way.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
You can't kill what you can't find, can you? She could run away, because she would always have to watch her back anyway if she had a father like that who knew where she lived anyway. And besides all that her husband could keep Sura 4:34 anyway, so she would be much happier with a nice Christian man, don't you think.


So, according to you DTT, because she could [possibly] marry a man allowed to beat her and refuse sex to punish her, she would be not only be WILLING but actually better off risking the wrath of her family, exile from them and possibly a life lived in fear from possible homicide, just for the benefit of living with you….

Excuse me but I find this difficult to understand.

B
 
Isabella said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
You can't kill what you can't find, can you? She could run away, because she would always have to watch her back anyway if she had a father like that who knew where she lived anyway. And besides all that her husband could keep Sura 4:34 anyway, so she would be much happier with a nice Christian man, don't you think.


So, according to you DTT, because she could [possibly] marry a man allowed to beat her and refuse sex to punish her, she would be not only be WILLING but actually better off risking the wrath of her family, exile from them and possibly a life lived in fear from possible homicide, just for the benefit of living with you….

Excuse me but I find this difficult to understand.

B

Will she would have to risk homicide from her family if she married a Muslim man anyway. I mean if her parents are willing to kill her for the smallest thing, she is safer if she does not see her family anymore.

Which is better exile, from her family or exile from the entire non-Muslim world?

Why would she want any daughters she will have to risk getting killed if they marry non-Muslims and risk being beat by their husbands?

Wouldn't it be better to break the cycle by marrying a non-Muslim? Unless there is no cycle of violence in which case, there would be no problem with violence in marrying a non-Muslim.

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
[c] 1 Corinthians 5:11 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a believer, whether man or woman, as part of God’s family; also in 8:11, 13.
1 Corinthians 5:9-11 NIV 2011

Christians are allowed to associate with non-Christians without being killed by their father.

34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”
Mark 8:35 The Greek word means either life or soul; also in verses 36 and 37.
Mark 8:34-38 NIV 2011

29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
Mark 10:29-31 NIV 2011

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”
[c] Matthew 10:36 Micah 7:6
Mathew 10:32-42 NIV 2011

5 Do not trust a neighbor;
put no confidence in a friend.
Even with the woman who lies in your embrace
guard the words of your lips.
6 For a son dishonors his father,
a daughter rises up against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies are the members of his own household.
7 But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD,
I wait for God my Savior;
my God will hear me.
Micah 7:5-7 NIV 2011
 
Funny that their seems to be more people converting TO Islam, than converting FROM it really, in that case.....
 
Isabella said:
Funny that their seems to be more people converting TO Islam, than converting FROM it really, in that case.....

In that case what?

The prophet Jesus said,
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Mathew 7:13-14 NIV 2011
 
The prophet Jesus said,
he better have been more than a prophet, or we is in a heap-o-trouble :D
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Isabella said:
Funny that their seems to be more people converting TO Islam, than converting FROM it really, in that case.....

In that case what?

The case that it runs contrary to the notions that you were stating, if the practical benefits are so great, we should have a wealth of converting brides, but in every case I have known, it is the husband who has converted TO Islam rather than visa versa. This suggestion, the insistence, that you can marry a Muslim whilst still remaining a strict Christian as been discouraged in so many ways, but you still persist in this illusion.

B
 
dtt said:
And 2 Corinthians 6:14 does not forbid Christians from marrying non-Christians in all circumstances from how I understand it. In fact as I understand it, it does not pertain to marriage or even avoiding non-believers. As I understand it, it has to do with not letting people have a unequally stronger yoking or interconnected influence on you such that they influence you to sin, more than if you were not yoked with them or than if you were yoked with them in a different way.

The context of the verse is Paul's instructions to a troubled church, and is not about marriage specifically. It is wise advice about not entangling oneself in worldly affairs with non-believers. We can't avoid contact with non-believers if we are to share the Gospel, but we should avoid getting entangled with them in many circumstances. For example, it would be extremely unwise to become partners in a business with a non-believer, but it is certainly permissible do business with non-believing business owners. (We all do that frequently; it is doubtful that every business we patronize is owned by Christians!)

Bels claims (she is probably correct - hope my agreeing with you doesn't cause your head to explode! :D ) that, in most cases where Christian men marry Muslim women, the men convert to Islam more often than the women convert to Christianity.

There are a couple of examples in the OT of men taking pagan wives.

Solomon allowed his foreign wives to lead him away from the Lord. That, of course, is an extreme situation - it's rather doubtful that anyone reading this forum will have 1,000 women, many of whom are daughters of pagan kings!

The other example is during the rebuilding of the Temple and the walls of Jerusalem after the Babylonian exile, found in Ezra chapters 9 and 10. The Jewish men put away their pagan wives. Doing that averted the disaster that befell Solomon.

However, in both cases, the men involved went against direct commandments of God. Kings were not to multiply wives, which Solomon did. And the Jewish people were not to give their daughters to pagan men nor to take the daughters of pagans as wives.

Having said all that, I don't believe that the injunction against intermarrying with pagans as given to the Jewish people in Deuteronomy chapter 7 applies to Christians. That was not a general prohibition - they were told specifically not to intermarry with those whom the Lord would drive out of the Promised Land:
Deuteronomy 7:3 NKJV Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son.

That was because God's judgment was about to fall on those inhabitants.

We as born-again Believers have come out of the world, we are not going in and possessing a land from which God will drive out the present inhabitants.

According to the false marriage doctrine that the Church now teaches, it is wrong for a man to have more than one wife. Marriage is taught to be more-or-less egalitarian, meaning there is some ambiguity about who is really head of the family. (In some cases, there is no doubt: a wimpy man with a domineering wife... :lol: ) Under those circumstances, it would be foolish for any believer, man or woman, to marry a non-believer.

But if the Church would teach true Biblical Marriage (Christian patriarchy) and we men will act as men, there would be only a small danger for a believing man to marry a non-believing woman. And in some cases, God might call a Godly man to do just that - especially if he already has another wife who is a strong Christian. That might be the only means of leading some non-believing women to the Lord, an opportunity missed by the Church due to false marriage doctrine. Evangelism via marriage? Just a thought...and it's not a good idea unless you really are sure that the Lord is leading in that direction.

If a man has problems walking with the Lord (that is, he is not a strong Christian), he should not get married at all. Not to even one wife, not even to a woman who is a strong Christian.

And if many of us on this forum have the right idea about widows and orphans, there is no shortage of women who are at least nominally Christians from whom we could potentially choose wives.

To sum up MHO: it is always a mistake for a Christian woman to marry weak Christian or a non-Christian, because such a man is not equipped to be the spiritual leader that the Bible says he should be. This applies to those who still believe the false marriage doctrine that is taught by the Church as well as those who believe and practice what the Bible really teaches about marriage. It may not be a sin to do so, but it will be likely to lead you into sin. For those Christian men who still believe the false marriage doctrine taught by the Church, it is always a mistake to marry a non-Christian. (Same comments about sin apply.) And for those of us who believe and practice what the Bible teaches about marriage, it is usually (but not always) a mistake for a Christian man to marry a non-Christian. But it is not necessarily a sin to do so, and if you are the spiritual leader that you are supposed to be, it probably won't lead you into sin.
 
PS- my last post is an admission that I was wrong :oops: , and resulted from a combination of what others said in this thread in response to my first post about believers marrying non-believers, reflection on things I had already studied, and some new study.

Also, one clarification: that last post was intended for those who enter into marriage after becoming a Believer, not necessarily someone who becomes a born-again Believer after marriage. If you became a Believer after marriage, and have a spouse who is not yet a Believer (or as a Believer, you married a non-believer), stay married unless the non-believing spouse says goodbye or refuses to live in peace. (See 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 for Paul's instructions on that.)
 
Isabella said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Isabella said:
Funny that their seems to be more people converting TO Islam, than converting FROM it really, in that case.....

In that case what?

The case that it runs contrary to the notions that you were stating, if the practical benefits are so great, we should have a wealth of converting brides, but in every case I have known, it is the husband who has converted TO Islam rather than visa versa. This suggestion, the insistence, that you can marry a Muslim whilst still remaining a strict Christian as been discouraged in so many ways, but you still persist in this illusion.

B

I think it fully confirms what I have been saying all along. The men converted because they were not Christians.

It shows how widespread fake Christianity is and how it is better to marry a woman with a Muslim upbringing so you can be sure you are not marrying a fake Christian.
said:
if the practical benefits are so great, we should have a wealth of converting brides,
We should indeed. ;)

Christianity has not been tried and found hard, but found hard and left untried.


said:
The case that it runs contrary to the notions that you were stating,
Which notions? Be specific please? Thank you for answering
 
said:
And 2 Corinthians 6:14 does not forbid Christians from marrying non-Christians in all circumstances from how I understand it. In fact as I understand it, it does not pertain to marriage or even avoiding non-believers. As I understand it, it has to do with not letting people have a unequally stronger yoking or interconnected influence on you such that they influence you to sin, more than if you were not yoked with them or than if you were yoked with them in a different way.
said:
But if the Church would teach true Biblical Marriage (Christian patriarchy) and we men will act as men, there would be only a small danger for a believing man to marry a non-believing woman. And in some cases, God might call a Godly man to do just that - especially if he already has another wife who is a strong Christian. That might be the only means of leading some non-believing women to the Lord, an opportunity missed by the Church due to false marriage doctrine. Evangelism via marriage? Just a thought...and it's not a good idea unless you really are sure that the Lord is leading in that direction.

said:
And for those of us who believe and practice what the Bible teaches about marriage, it is usually (but not always) a mistake for a Christian man to marry a non-Christian. But it is not necessarily a sin to do so, and if you are the spiritual leader that you are supposed to be, it probably won't lead you into sin.

Well I suppose if we are talking about non-Biblical Biblical marriage I would be wrong, but I was talking about Biblical Biblical marriage.

Hope I did not mangle the quotes
 
Romantic_Rebel said:
Life is good and God gives people a lot in life. God has provided me with knowledge at my finger tips. I believe I have a great idea to group people of Jewish, Christian, Islamic faith to teach and come to understand our faiths together. I know a lot of the differences and similarities between the three faiths. Nothing makes me feel happy to teach about the three faiths. Do any of you guys think it would be good to start up a group for Jews, Christians, and Muslims to get together and have fun together growing in faith for god? I have a copy of the Jewish Bible, KJV Christian Bible and the Quran on my bed side. For some reason I always locate the text promoting harmony between man.

One way to start such a group

Marry a Christian woman :D a Jewish woman :D and a Muslim woman :D . And have a family Bible reading time.
 
DTT wrote.
Who are "them"

"Them" are listed in verse 1, the occupants of the land that God is dispossessing as He gives the land to Israel.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
It shows how widespread fake Christianity is and how it is better to marry a woman with a Muslim upbringing so you can be sure you are not marrying a fake Christian.

Step aside, Isabella...it is now time for my head to explode !!!! :lol:
Really unbelievable logic here.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Fairlight said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
It shows how widespread fake Christianity is and how it is better to marry a woman with a Muslim upbringing so you can be sure you are not marrying a fake Christian.

Step aside, Isabella...it is now time for my head to explode !!!! :lol:
Really unbelievable logic here.

Blessings,
Fairlight

Opponents of crazy logic...unite!!!! :lol:
 
John Whitten said:
DTT wrote.
Who are "them"

"Them" are listed in verse 1, the occupants of the land that God is dispossessing as He gives the land to Israel.

You mean them is not a metaphor for "non-Christians" but it is actually people who inhabit certain nations?

Some of the people in some or all of the nations listed practiced child-sacrifice

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices.
Leviticus 18:1-3 NIV 2011

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’”
Leviticus 18:24-30 NIV 2011

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:21 NIV 2011

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. 3 I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, 5 I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.
Leviticus 20:1-5 NIV 2011

22 “‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.
Leviticus 20:22-24 NIV 2011

4 After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, “The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness.” No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 6 Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.
Deuteronomy 9:4-6 NIV 2011
 
Caution: Lowflying Random Thoughts!

now that you have been oroperly warned;
if some things were printed on rice paper, would we have discovered a digestive cleansing gold mine?
 
steve said:
if some things were printed on rice paper, would we have discovered a digestive cleansing gold mine?

Steve...that's awesome! I think it deserves it's own thread! :lol:

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
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