-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
Justification by Law Keeping
- Thread starter Earth_is-
- Start date
- Status
Why not? You ignore the words in red. And EVERY OTHER PART of the 'text' that doesn't support a thesis that calls Him a liar.
The problem is - and it is clear at this point - you fell for exactly what Paul himself warned about in II Corinthians 11:3-4.
Before I say anything: we are saved by grace through faith in the Lord Yeshua the Messiah. No works can save us. We act out our faith (for faith without works is dead) by living our lives according to the standard set by God. We strive to be like Christ, and are empowered to keep the Law (aka not sin, as sin is the transgression of the Law).
The Spirit is the ministry of life.
Through the Law we understand our sin, and that we are dead. Through the Spirit we have new life, and we are given power to be sanctified. Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Yeshua.
Read the Law. None of it is that difficult to keep. So why is humanity incapable of it? The Law isn't too difficult for us to be able to keep. We are too evil to simply be good on our own.
Through the ministry of Death we understand that we are dead in our flesh, we cannot do it on our own. Through the ministry of the Spirit we are saved from our own sinful nature, and empowered to bear fruit.
We bear fruit by living life in accordance with God's instructions.
The Law is the ministry of death.
The Spirit is the ministry of life.
Through the Law we understand our sin, and that we are dead. Through the Spirit we have new life, and we are given power to be sanctified. Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Yeshua.
Read the Law. None of it is that difficult to keep. So why is humanity incapable of it? The Law isn't too difficult for us to be able to keep. We are too evil to simply be good on our own.
Through the ministry of Death we understand that we are dead in our flesh, we cannot do it on our own. Through the ministry of the Spirit we are saved from our own sinful nature, and empowered to bear fruit.
We bear fruit by living life in accordance with God's instructions.
A big part of the reason for that is that most of us who have RETURNED to an understanding that He IS Who He says He IS were brought up to believe that "law was done away with" BS.
Just like we were told to worship Monogomania, as the Only True Marriage.
Once you see the lie, it's impossible to UN-see it.
Anybody here ever "talked past" somebody who refuses to read Scripture-as-Written when it comes to whether a man may take a second wife?
In my experience, MOST come to that understanding only AFTER they realize He never "did away with" His other statutes, judgments, and commandments, either.
I don't think it's possible to get clear answers. Whenever we give scripture pertaining to a relaxation of certain things in the Mosaic Law (dietary, circumcision, feasts, and sabbaths) - immediately comes in the claims of following a different "different Jesus." I completely accept they follow the works of the law out of love for God - just like Paul, Peter, James, and many other Israelites did. But if these apostles of Christ never instructed the gentiles to follow the entire mosaic law - then why are people in the 21st century?
Teaching that the works of the law are necessary for salvation/justification becomes a major salvation issue. Because scripture says anyone that wants to be justified by the works of the law - they've been cut off from Christ. But if you're doing these things out of love for Christ - then that's between you and your own relationship with Christ.
I agree with your claims that about the churches (Catholic Protestant and Orthodox). But it's not because they don't require the keeping of the entire Mosaic Law. Many serve money. Many are fornicating with the governments for tax exempt status (prevents them from preaching about certain subjects). In order to become a pastor you have to go through college and read commentaries from men; which can severely taint the word of God.
I’m not arguing with this statement, but I think you and I might differ on how this is defined. What kinds of things would you define as good fruit? What things would you define as being God’s instructions for christians? I just want to clarify my understanding of your beliefs, because I really don’t want to just argue and speak passed one another.
Good grief. Did you actually READ this thread?
So: "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and NOT DO the things I say?" (Luke 6:46)
I can quote this to you the same as you can quote it to me. I don't think you do what the Lord says.
Based on your writing on this site, I've never heard anything that would indicate your 2500 hours worth of audio content would be worth listening to. I shouldn't waste time quarreling with you.
FWIW, I have listened to a substantial amount of TK Bible teaching online from guys like (PeteR, RevoltingMan, Joe Fox, and BearIndependent). Those guys might be right and they might be wrong, but I felt they were worth my time.
Apparently he did, because you never said that people were saved by grace alone, through faith alone, based on Christ and His saving Work alone, to the glory of God alone.
If you agreed on that, we could have an honest and fruitful discussion about the Law.
You didn't, and I don't believe you will.
Bartato: You're either a liar, or a fool. Because NO ONE here is doing this, and everyone who has read it at ALL knows that:
Fine, you don't want to listen to me: great. You don't read either, so no loss. After all, "If ye believe not His Writings, how shall ye believe My Words?"
As for this:
One, and I won't repeat it again. It's not about "the Law," it's His Instruction. Even those here who don't agree at least have the integrity to admit THAT distinction has been made.
More importantly, you have proven one thing. You worship a different god than the Son of Yah Who Wrote His Word for us, and said He wouldn't change "one yod or tiddle of it."
Quite frankly, you keep calling Him a liar, and you just plain piss me off. And then you have the gall to prattle about the "glory of God."
==================================================
For anyone else still actually interesting in "rightly dividing the Word of Truth":
Have you ever tried to talk to a TNKH-literate believing Jew about "Jesus"? I have, many times. (But I start by making the distinction, as I will explain.) And I can guarantee those of you who have not, that if you approach them with "grace alone, by faith alone" in a "jesus, who did away with the Law" - you will RIGHTFULLY see their backside. They will know what the (idiot? liar?) here won't admit: That such a "jesus" is a FAKE, and 'the Truth is not in him.' No wonder they changed the Name.
A 'jesus' who did away with ANY of His Torah is disqualified from being even a crappy 'messiah.' Much less the Son of YHVH. There's no debate. And those who start there, finish before they start, with ANYONE who actually knows that "OLD Testament."
And we didn't even get to Deuteronomy 13. Much less Paul, 'as twisted.'
What I find "funny," albeit disgusting, is that Torah-observant Jews who literally HATE the crap they've taken from "Jesus-pushers" invariably, after a more fruitful discussion than THIS has been, will readily admit that they see a BIG difference between the Yahushua that saved ME and a "jesus" that they've heard about all of their lives, and detest with vehemence, because they KNOW that one is a lie. And most I've talked to could do a better job than the last few posters here of quoting Scripture to prove why.
Were this a real discussion, people might begin to see why the Whore Church and Whore Synagogue, both whoring wives, both STILL in rebellion to Him, and thus exile, have been literally killing each other for centuries.
Fine, you don't want to listen to me: great. You don't read either, so no loss. After all, "If ye believe not His Writings, how shall ye believe My Words?"
As for this:
No, for several reasons. You don't 'discuss', you don't read what you don't want to see; you don't even address the issues.
One, and I won't repeat it again. It's not about "the Law," it's His Instruction. Even those here who don't agree at least have the integrity to admit THAT distinction has been made.
More importantly, you have proven one thing. You worship a different god than the Son of Yah Who Wrote His Word for us, and said He wouldn't change "one yod or tiddle of it."
Quite frankly, you keep calling Him a liar, and you just plain piss me off. And then you have the gall to prattle about the "glory of God."
==================================================
For anyone else still actually interesting in "rightly dividing the Word of Truth":
Have you ever tried to talk to a TNKH-literate believing Jew about "Jesus"? I have, many times. (But I start by making the distinction, as I will explain.) And I can guarantee those of you who have not, that if you approach them with "grace alone, by faith alone" in a "jesus, who did away with the Law" - you will RIGHTFULLY see their backside. They will know what the (idiot? liar?) here won't admit: That such a "jesus" is a FAKE, and 'the Truth is not in him.' No wonder they changed the Name.
A 'jesus' who did away with ANY of His Torah is disqualified from being even a crappy 'messiah.' Much less the Son of YHVH. There's no debate. And those who start there, finish before they start, with ANYONE who actually knows that "OLD Testament."
And we didn't even get to Deuteronomy 13. Much less Paul, 'as twisted.'
What I find "funny," albeit disgusting, is that Torah-observant Jews who literally HATE the crap they've taken from "Jesus-pushers" invariably, after a more fruitful discussion than THIS has been, will readily admit that they see a BIG difference between the Yahushua that saved ME and a "jesus" that they've heard about all of their lives, and detest with vehemence, because they KNOW that one is a lie. And most I've talked to could do a better job than the last few posters here of quoting Scripture to prove why.
Were this a real discussion, people might begin to see why the Whore Church and Whore Synagogue, both whoring wives, both STILL in rebellion to Him, and thus exile, have been literally killing each other for centuries.
So we're back to yet another thread covering the same old argument, which is a distraction from the focus of this ministry.
I'm just going to lock it. There is zero profit in this for anybody.
I'm just going to lock it. There is zero profit in this for anybody.
- Status