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Daniel DeLuca said:
One possible explanation for the disappearance of Mormons who come to realize that this is not a Mormon group, is the very threat they get from their own religion. Though not as serious as a JW might face, there have been Mormon families broken up by the LDS church. Wives are often told that they will not be able to become a goddess, if their husband continues to question his faith. This particular Mormon I interacted with, did ask me if we accept people who are diverse, and I assured her that we do. I suppose I should come back with a caveat and made sure that she understands that while she is welcome here, Mormon doctrine is not. Interestingly enough, she expressed dismay about trying to find another husband (required to reach the third level), because of her plural gods belief, or as she put it, non-Trinitarian beliefs. I responded that this is one of the core beliefs that I hold, but I didn't press it. I am focusing more right now on her salvation. She seems pretty certain she will attain the second level of glory, but her belief that she will, is not based on any Scripture. She believes that she will get there, because she feels like the Holy Spirit tells her so. I am inclined to go back to that verse Steve referenced, namely I John 4:1, which as I posted here, is a verse that people who have embraced the lies of Mormonism, need to understand that not every spirit comes from God.
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My take on people look Mormons or any religious group that claim acceptance of the Son of God is that they have thier theology all in a mess and they just need help straightening it out. We are all like that to a certain degree and certain levels. Some of thier doctrines are interesting to look at to see how they could come up with thier reasoning.
 
Cap said:
The so called church of today has failed. You are confusing them and how they handle the world as apposed to how true followers of Christ should respond and interact with them. Not in fear but in love.
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Just out of curiosity, what group/s do you see as the model in living out the Truth?
 
Cap said:
Ones that follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and are a light to the world.
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I didn’t ask for a description.
 
Cap said:
Find a group that fits that description and you will have your answer.

Why do you ask? (Out of curiosity)
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Because I am interested in knowing if any group matches what you espouse.
Evidently not but don’t let that be a problem, there is no group that embraces all of my walk either.
 
Frank S said:
@steve - you just sang my song - and accurately too! - but it's such a sad song that I've often wished I could have a better one. Sigh
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It can be lonely and even dangerous on the far outskirts of the herd, that’s why we all need each other in spite of our differences.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
n. She seems pretty certain she will attain the second level of glory
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I know nothing of the mormon doctrine there, but if you read 1 Cor 11 you see that a woman being under the headship of a man is very much wrapped up in glory in a very spiritual way.

Cap said:
I agree %110.
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Me too. I don't expect this to be a place of lock-step agreement on doctrine, even in large matters. That's not what's most useful about here. I've generally found that every sect has a bit of the truth that others have lost and none get it 100% right.
 
rockfox said:
And if I was a Mormon I'd take that as Mormons not being welcome here. Just as if you had said "Baptist doctrine isn't welcome here" Baptists wouldn't feel welcome to discuss the Bible here as the rest of us do.
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I can see why they might think that and why you would say that (and Steve can speak for himself), but I think he just means they would get an argument, not that they would be deleted and banned (up to a point. Obviously if it became a large distraction to the ministry action would need to be taken).

BF is a classic Christian site. I would not expect to go into a Muslim site (they advocate and have experience with polygamy too!) and be welcomed with open arms either. I would expect even in a friendly Muslim site I would get a debate if I advocated for a Christian specific doctrine. We are not the same and there is no sense pretending that we are.

There is no reason that we can not be friendly and respectful, which I think we are. If they can find value in what we do and want to stay, that is great. If they prefer to spend their time with others who have similar beliefs, then God bless them.
 
rockfox said:
I know nothing of the mormon doctrine there, but if you read 1 Cor 11 you see that a woman being under the headship of a man is very much wrapped up in glory in a very spiritual way.
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They believe in three levels of paradise that you can attain. When I asked her if she knew for certain that if she died in 14 days, whether she thought she would go to heaven, she said that she doesn't believe in heaven, so I let it go, as I didn't find it worth arguing. I just wanted to keep the main thing, the main thing, so I have pressed her on why she thinks she will get to the second level. Of course she really wants to attain the third level, but Mormon doctrine, or rather AUB doctrine teaches that she must be a part of a celestial (plural) marriage in order to attain that. While I did challenge her on eternal marriage, again, I refocused on keeping the main thing, the main thing, namely the salvation of her soul.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
They believe in three levels of paradise that you can attain. When I asked her if she knew for certain that if she died in 14 days, whether she thought she would go to heaven, she said that she doesn't believe in heaven, so I let it go, as I didn't find it worth arguing. I just wanted to keep the main thing, the main thing, so I have pressed her on why she thinks she will get to the second level. Of course she really wants to attain the third level, but Mormon doctrine, or rather AUB doctrine teaches that she must be a part of a celestial (plural) marriage in order to attain that. While I did challenge her on eternal marriage, again, I refocused on keeping the main thing, the main thing, namely the salvation of her soul.
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You know what's interesting about that is the common Christian understanding isn't exactly on either. If you read the NT close you see we go to paradise (sheol, Abrahams bosom) not heaven until the judgement, and then it's to the new heaven. And there are various mentions of multiple levels of heaven (Enoch, Paul speaking of a third heaven).
 
rockfox said:
You know what's interesting about that is the common Christian understanding isn't exactly on either. If you read the NT close you see we go to paradise (sheol, Abrahams bosom) not heaven until the judgement, and then it's to the new heaven. And there are various mentions of multiple levels of heaven (Enoch, Paul speaking of a third heaven).
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Yeah! She referenced Paul's remark about the third heaven. I didn't get the sense that it was worth debating with her. My main concern, is how she has the certainty that she will make it there. or at least to heaven 2.0.
 
rockfox said:
You know what's interesting about that is the common Christian understanding isn't exactly on either. If you read the NT close you see we go to paradise (sheol, Abrahams bosom) not heaven until the judgement, and then it's to the new heaven. And there are various mentions of multiple levels of heaven (Enoch, Paul speaking of a third heaven).
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I've heard the Pauline explanation of levels of heaven being explained in 1) atmosphere, 2) universe (outside Earth's atmosphere) and 3) God's domain.

They're not necessarily levels we attain in the afterlife.
 
Mojo said:
I've heard the Pauline explanation of levels of heaven being explained in 1) atmosphere, 2) universe (outside Earth's atmosphere) and 3) God's domain.

They're not necessarily levels we attain in the afterlife.
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I've heard that, but it strikes me as a post hoc pastorism, the kind of which are often wrong.

The scripture doesn't talk about heaven like that; just read the creation account to see an example. Several ancient documents mention multiple levels of heaven; most notably 2nd Enoch specifically documents 10 levels of heaven (of which level 3 has Sheol divided between paradise and hades).

I'm not of the impression that it is not a case of different levels of attainment; though I haven't studied it in depth.
 
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