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Polygyny and Male Attraction

To have a relationship with God one most understand who He is and to do that one has to know His Laws so that one can understand His forgiveness. Repentance is all a part of it. No one is denying that. We are all at various states of sin, some more than others, we all learn through the lessons we learn in life and the forgiveness God gives is as we go. There is no end to a God's Mercy. If you want to say that His Mercy ends at our physical death and you want to preach fire and brimstone. Knock yourself out. But I believe Gods Mercy never ends and I believe in the power of the New Covenant that God Himself is going to do what He said and save people, some through fire, but nevertheless He will find away to save His Creation in the end. I prefer to focus on the Love of God and let the pains of life lead one to Christ, showing were there is hope in a fallen world. There is enough pain in this world to teach people the error of not having a relationship with God.

Anyway, leading someone to repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit, we just have to follow His lead.
 
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  • You could not convince the rich man in Lk 16 the error of not having a relationship with God, his life seemed pretty good to him. Yet he is in hell. Not all sinners live a life of pain. and according to you it does not matter anyway they will all be saved in the end. why did Paul and others suffer such for a gospel that really does not matter in the realm of eternity free salvation for all even if you don't want it. lets go fishing!
 
Because there is hell but it's not everlasting.

Sir, you must jump over and explain away a lot of plain scriptures to arrive a that conclusion. or you must be reading a different Bible.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Same Greek word for everlasting and eternal in this same verse. if the Life is eternal then so is the second death.



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Ellicott's Commentary on the Whole Bible

Matt. 25:46: Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word (aionion) aionios -- it must be admitted (1) that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and an ending (Rom. 16:25), where the Greek is "from aeonian times;" our version giving "since the world began." (Comp. 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:3)--strictly speaking, therefore, the word, as such, apart from its association with any qualifying substantive, implies a vast undefined duration, rather than one in the full sense of the word "infinite."

The Encyclopedia Dictionary of the Bible (Catholic Bible Dictionary), p. 693

ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gn. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as "forever," means in itself no more than "for an indefinitely long period." Thus, me olam does not mean "from eternity" but "of old" (Gn. 6:4, etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam.

Dr. F.W. Farrar, The Eternal Hope, p. 198

That the adjective is applied to some things which are "endless" does not, of course, for one moment prove that the word itself meant "endless," and to introduce this rendering into many passages would be utterly impossible and absurd.

Dr. F.W. Farrar, Mercy and Judgment, p. 378

Since aion meant "age," aionios means, properly, "belonging to an age," or "age-long," and anyone who asserts that it must mean "endless" defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant "eternity," which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek-- aionios could still mean only "belonging to eternity" and not "lasting through it."

Hasting's Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. 1, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels

There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or in the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity.

(Vol. III, p. 369) Eternal, everlasting--nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come into the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes.

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. IV, p. 643

Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life;" then "age," "lifetime." It is, however, also used generally of a (limited or unlimited long space of time. The use of the word aion is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means "long distant uninterrupted time" in the past (Luke 1:10), as well as in the future (John 4:14).

Lange's Commentary American Edition, Vol. V, p. 48

On Ecclesiastes 1:4. The preacher, in contending with the universalist, or restorationist, would commit an error, and, it may be, suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological or historical significance of the words, aion, aionios, and attempt to prove that, of themselves, they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration.

Dr. MacKnight

I must be so candid as to acknowledge that the use of these terms, "forever," "eternal," "everlasting," shows that they who understand these words in a limited sense when applied to punishment put no forced interpretation upon them.

The Parkhurst Lexicon

Olam (aeon) seems to be used much more for an indefinite than for an infinite time.

G. Campbell Morgan, God's Methods With Men, pp. 185-186

Let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how we use the word "eternity." We have fallen into great error in our constant usage of that word. There is no word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our "eternal," which as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end.

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol. XII, p. 96

Under the instruction of those great teachers, many other theologians believed in universal salvation; and indeed the whole Eastern Church until after 500 A.D. was inclined to it. Doederlein says that "In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more did he cherish and defend the hope of the termination of future torments." Many more church historians could be quoted with similar observations.

Philippson, Israel Religionslehre (11:255)

The Rabbi teach no eternity of hell torments; even the greatest sinners were punished for generations.

Dr. Alford Plumer, An Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, pp. 351-352

It is often pointed out that "eternal" (aionios) in "eternal punishment" must have the same meaning as in "eternal life." No doubt, but that does not give us the right to say that "eternal" in both cases means "endless."

Dr. Edward Plumptre (Eschatologist)

I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited.

The Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 15, p. 485

It is possible that "aeonian" may denote merely indefinite duration without the connotation of never ending.

G. T. Stevenson, Time and Eternity

(Page 63) Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time, it appears very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term.

(Page 72) In 1 Cor. 15:22-29 the inspired apostle to the Gentiles transports his readers' thoughts far into the future, beyond the furthest point envisaged elsewhere in holy writ. After outlining the triumph of the Son of God in bringing all creation under His benign control, Paul sets forth the consummation of the divine plan of the ages in four simple, yet infinitely profound words, "God all in all." This is our God, purposeful, wise, loving, and almighty, His Son our Lord a triumphant Savior, Who destroys His enemies by making them friends.

Jeremy Taylor, author of Systematic Hellology, which advocates the common belief in eternal torment, later writes a modified view in Jeremy Taylor's Works, Vol. III, p. 43.

Though the fire is everlasting, not all that enters it is everlasting . . . . "The word everlasting signifies only to the end of its period.

Dr. Nigel Turner, Christian Words, p. 457

All the way through, it is never feasible to understand aionios as everlasting.

Dr. (Prof.) Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament, Vol. IV

(Page 59) The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting." aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Out of the 150 instances in the LXX (Septuagint), four-fifths imply limited duration.

(Page 291, about 2 Tim. 1:9) "Before the world began" (pro chronon aionion) Lit. Before eternal times. If it is insisted that aionion means everlasting, this statement is absurd. It is impossible that anything should take place before everlasting times.

Charles H. Welch, editor of The Berean Expositor, wrote in An Alphabetical Analysis, Vol. I

(Page 52) What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation.

(Page 279) Eternity is not a Biblical theme.

Dr. R.F. Weymouth, The New Testament in Modern Speech, p. 657

Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.
 
Ellicott's Commentary on the Whole Bible

Matt. 25:46: Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word (aionion) aionios -- it must be admitted (1) that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and an ending (Rom. 16:25), where the Greek is "from aeonian times;" our version giving "since the world began." (Comp. 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:3)--strictly speaking, therefore, the word, as such, apart from its association with any qualifying substantive, implies a vast undefined duration, rather than one in the full sense of the word "infinite."

The Encyclopedia Dictionary of the Bible (Catholic Bible Dictionary), p. 693

ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gn. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as "forever," means in itself no more than "for an indefinitely long period." Thus, me olam does not mean "from eternity" but "of old" (Gn. 6:4, etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam.

Dr. F.W. Farrar, The Eternal Hope, p. 198

That the adjective is applied to some things which are "endless" does not, of course, for one moment prove that the word itself meant "endless," and to introduce this rendering into many passages would be utterly impossible and absurd.

Dr. F.W. Farrar, Mercy and Judgment, p. 378

Since aion meant "age," aionios means, properly, "belonging to an age," or "age-long," and anyone who asserts that it must mean "endless" defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant "eternity," which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek-- aionios could still mean only "belonging to eternity" and not "lasting through it."

Hasting's Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. 1, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels

There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or in the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity.

(Vol. III, p. 369) Eternal, everlasting--nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come into the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes.

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. IV, p. 643

Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life;" then "age," "lifetime." It is, however, also used generally of a (limited or unlimited long space of time. The use of the word aion is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means "long distant uninterrupted time" in the past (Luke 1:10), as well as in the future (John 4:14).

Lange's Commentary American Edition, Vol. V, p. 48

On Ecclesiastes 1:4. The preacher, in contending with the universalist, or restorationist, would commit an error, and, it may be, suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological or historical significance of the words, aion, aionios, and attempt to prove that, of themselves, they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration.

Dr. MacKnight

I must be so candid as to acknowledge that the use of these terms, "forever," "eternal," "everlasting," shows that they who understand these words in a limited sense when applied to punishment put no forced interpretation upon them.

The Parkhurst Lexicon

Olam (aeon) seems to be used much more for an indefinite than for an infinite time.

G. Campbell Morgan, God's Methods With Men, pp. 185-186

Let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how we use the word "eternity." We have fallen into great error in our constant usage of that word. There is no word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our "eternal," which as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end.

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol. XII, p. 96

Under the instruction of those great teachers, many other theologians believed in universal salvation; and indeed the whole Eastern Church until after 500 A.D. was inclined to it. Doederlein says that "In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more did he cherish and defend the hope of the termination of future torments." Many more church historians could be quoted with similar observations.

Philippson, Israel Religionslehre (11:255)

The Rabbi teach no eternity of hell torments; even the greatest sinners were punished for generations.

Dr. Alford Plumer, An Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, pp. 351-352

It is often pointed out that "eternal" (aionios) in "eternal punishment" must have the same meaning as in "eternal life." No doubt, but that does not give us the right to say that "eternal" in both cases means "endless."

Dr. Edward Plumptre (Eschatologist)

I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited.

The Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 15, p. 485

It is possible that "aeonian" may denote merely indefinite duration without the connotation of never ending.

G. T. Stevenson, Time and Eternity

(Page 63) Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time, it appears very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term.

(Page 72) In 1 Cor. 15:22-29 the inspired apostle to the Gentiles transports his readers' thoughts far into the future, beyond the furthest point envisaged elsewhere in holy writ. After outlining the triumph of the Son of God in bringing all creation under His benign control, Paul sets forth the consummation of the divine plan of the ages in four simple, yet infinitely profound words, "God all in all." This is our God, purposeful, wise, loving, and almighty, His Son our Lord a triumphant Savior, Who destroys His enemies by making them friends.

Jeremy Taylor, author of Systematic Hellology, which advocates the common belief in eternal torment, later writes a modified view in Jeremy Taylor's Works, Vol. III, p. 43.

Though the fire is everlasting, not all that enters it is everlasting . . . . "The word everlasting signifies only to the end of its period.

Dr. Nigel Turner, Christian Words, p. 457

All the way through, it is never feasible to understand aionios as everlasting.

Dr. (Prof.) Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament, Vol. IV

(Page 59) The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting." aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Out of the 150 instances in the LXX (Septuagint), four-fifths imply limited duration.

(Page 291, about 2 Tim. 1:9) "Before the world began" (pro chronon aionion) Lit. Before eternal times. If it is insisted that aionion means everlasting, this statement is absurd. It is impossible that anything should take place before everlasting times.

Charles H. Welch, editor of The Berean Expositor, wrote in An Alphabetical Analysis, Vol. I

(Page 52) What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation.

(Page 279) Eternity is not a Biblical theme.

Dr. R.F. Weymouth, The New Testament in Modern Speech, p. 657

Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.

It is often pointed out that "eternal" (aionios) in "eternal punishment" must have the same meaning as in "eternal life." No doubt, but that does not give us the right to say that "eternal" in both cases means "endless."

So we may not say that eternity is without end or heaven and our reward is without end either!

I agree that in some cases the idea of forever in the Bible must be understood in a limited sense often conditioned upon obedience or a change in dispensation. There is usually other scripture that confirms the limit or the change i.e. the limit on the Law and change to the New covenant.

HOWEVER, you have not responded with any scripture which shows a limit to our reward or the sinners punishment!

Please bring more than man's opinions about words. please bring scripture to show the uses of words in context.
I have shown that Hell continues even into the New age of the New Heaven and the New Earth. There is NO scripture showing an end to the punishment or the reward!

YOU (AND MANY OTHERS) HAVE FALLEN FOR THE OLDEST LIE IN THE BOOK!

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: [/QUOTE]
 
My friend, all I do is bring out different viewpoints. I look at everything and I hope others do the same. I am not here to convince you of anything. My truth and your truth will always be different from the Real Truth, but it is our job to try and understand. Through much trial and error and prayer hopefully God will grant us an opportunity to see His backside, just a little bit. You said that, I and MANY OTHERS have fallen for a lie, I am honored to be included in with those names I listed who question the norm. Is it better to love God or fear Him?

I know where you will go with the last statement so I will go ahead and just include this here,

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love.

I do not fear, and I am trying to fear less everyday, because I am trying to learn how much I am loved by the one who created me. Fearing God is were we all start, and is well needed in the beginning, but over time, when one learns about the Love of God that fear should lessen. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, is the command I try to follow.
 
My friend, all I do is bring out different viewpoints. I look at everything and I hope others do the same. I am not here to convince you of anything. My truth and your truth will always be different from the Real Truth, but it is our job to try and understand. Through much trial and error and prayer hopefully God will grant us an opportunity to see His backside, just a little bit. You said that, I and MANY OTHERS have fallen for a lie, I am honored to be included in with those names I listed who question the norm. Is it better to love God or fear Him?

I know where you will go with the last statement so I will go ahead and just include this here,

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love.

I do not fear, and I am trying to fear less everyday, because I am trying to learn how much I am loved by the one who created me. Fearing God is were we all start, and is well needed in the beginning, but over time, when one learns about the Love of God that fear should lessen. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, is the command I try to follow.

I agree that for the believer we are to walk in Love for our Father and that we are not to be afraid of Him as long as we are in faith/obedience our Love should be the primary motivator. However just as we are to love our earthly father and yet honor and reverence him, yes and in their prime never lose the respect for the power thy can wield; our Heavenly Father will never lose His power and strength and we must always respect/fear that. As a believer we have an Abba/Daddy in Him.​
However Just as He Loves with perfect Love, He can Hate with perfect hatred those who reject Him and His Son. True that is not for us to do! we are to Hate the Sin NOT the Sinner! I am not the judge but God will bring appropriate punishment but those who hate him with an eternal hatred He will punish with an eternal punishment.​

2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If we err on the side of misunderstanding of the proper role of his Love or His Judgment we still err.

The proper balance is essential.

All judgement is surly error But Love without proper judgment is surely error as well. Love and Peace
 
He can Hate with perfect hatred those who reject Him and His Son. True that is not for us to do! we are to Hate the Sin NOT the Sinner! I am not the judge but God will bring appropriate punishment but those who hate him with an eternal hatred He will punish with an eternal punishment.

Any scripture for this?

I think you are placing your own ideas of how God should act in His dealings with His Creation. If you understand the argument then those who "hate" God will in time learn to love God, by His Mercy and Promise.

God does not "hate" people. God died to "save" people.

I kinda feel bad for those in your congregation if that is what you still do.
 
Any scripture for this?

I think you are placing your own ideas of how God should act in His dealings with His Creation. If you understand the argument then those who "hate" God will in time learn to love God, by His Mercy and Promise.

God does not "hate" people. God died to "save" people.

I kinda feel bad for those in your congregation if that is what you still do.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

This may be specific to Adam but it contains a principle that applies to all for:

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Its funny you accuse me of injecting my thoughts into scripture yet I contienue to bring scripture to support my thoughts and it is plain for anyone to read. You on the other hand give me opinions and few scriptures.

 
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

This may be specific to Adam but it contains a principle that applies to all for:

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Its funny you accuse me of injecting my thoughts into scripture yet I contienue to bring scripture to support my thoughts and it is plain for anyone to read. You on the other hand give me opinions and few scriptures.

The verses you bring remind me of the verses @The truth brought to justify his view against polygamy. They are verses in the bible but they don't seem to match the intended discussion. Unless anyone else wants to jump in I say we call a truce and move on to something else. You can have the last word, if you like.
 
The verses you bring remind me of the verses @The truth brought to justify his view against polygamy. They are verses in the bible but they don't seem to match the intended discussion. Unless anyone else wants to jump in I say we call a truce and move on to something else. You can have the last word, if you like.

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Really? This is a promise if I have ever heard one, God says, "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'", which I take to mean that EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND ACKNOWLEDGE GOD. So, Judas will, Hitler will, Nebuchadnezzar will, everyone will. What is hard for me to accept is that once someone says this, then it is assumed that they go straight to Hell right after saying it, if they have lived a unrepentant life before that confession. That's a cruel God.
All these people will be resurrected for judgement. Where they will be standing before God. How could you see God and not "acknowledge" that He clearly exists because He's right in front of you? Of course they'll recognise He's real. How could you stand in His presence without falling on your face, even if only in terror? Of course they'll at least bow.

But the time for repentance will be past. This is not talking about universal salvation.
 
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Rev 21:4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.

How does this happen for you if your son, or daughter, or mother, or father, dies an unbeliever?
All sorrow, however great (and that is the greatest sorrow imaginable), fades with time. And with God all things are possible.
 
I made those comments while reading through, but I now see you've called a truce and don't intend to restart the debate at this point since you've reached a conclusion. I'll leave my posts standing though as they may be of use for other readers looking to understand various perspectives on this issue.
 
Starting out with a poly relationship is far better, IMO, but it seems that what most people here want to do is the hardest and most dangerous, which is add another wife downstream. There is plenty of evidence that adding a second wife isn't an easy task and there are problems with that.

What I don't see is any realistic discussion of quite a number of issues as to why it's so difficult.

I do not think anyone is against starting out polygamous per se. In fact there is much to gain by being up front with this when starting your family.

However, finding one good wife is difficult. Finding one wife who is also open to polygamy is very difficult in our culture. Finding two good women at the same time who are interested in polygamy virtually impossible.

So there is that.

But if you can do it, go for it!
 
I do not think anyone is against starting out polygamous per se. In fact there is much to gain by being up front with this when starting your family.

However, finding one good wife is difficult. Finding one wife who is also open to polygamy is very difficult in our culture. Finding two good women at the same time who are interested in polygamy virtually impossible.

So there is that.

But if you can do it, go for it!

All true. But for the record Eristhophanes did exactly that. Though IIRC it happened after this old thread initially aired.
 
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