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Ridicule on forum

steve said:
That’s pretty much what I would expect an AI bot to say…..

JUST KIDDING!
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You people must understand - I am 81 years old (albeit, a very young 81), and I don't understand in the slightest WHAT ON EARTH IS AN A.I.? Being from a farm background, A.I. always meant Artificial Insemination - which those without enough bulls, or bulls that were not of high enough quality to breed certain of a farmers very best cows - was used. Artifical Intelligence? How on earth can anything artificial fool a perfectly smart man. Anyone smart enough to start a great site like this surely cannot be fooled by anything artificial. Right!!! And what would something artificial understand about marriage, let alone Biblical Marriage? Huh???
 
Don't worry about the "real person" label, it doesn't change anything. It's just a way of showing readers that a decent portion of the people here have met each other in person, so we aren't a bunch of random basement dwellers making up fantasies about having lots of wives, this is actually real. It doesn't give you any extra privileges on the site.
PastorLarry said:
Artifical Intelligence? How on earth can anything artificial fool a perfectly smart man. Anyone smart enough to start a great site like this surely cannot be fooled by anything artificial. Right!!! And what would something artificial understand about marriage, let alone Biblical Marriage? Huh???
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More than you realise. I just went to ChatGPT and asked it "What does the law in the Bible say about polygamy?". This was its answer:
The Bible contains various references to polygamy, and its treatment of the practice reflects the cultural and historical context of the times. Here’s an overview of what the Bible says about polygamy:

  1. Old Testament Practices:
    • Historical Accounts: Many prominent figures in the Old Testament had multiple wives. For example, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3), and Abraham had Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah (Genesis 16, 25:1).
    • Regulations: While the Bible does not explicitly endorse polygamy, it includes regulations that address it. For example, Exodus 21:10 includes provisions for a man who has more than one wife, stating that he must not diminish the rights of his first wife.
    • Levitical Laws: Deuteronomy 21:15-17 provides guidance on inheritance rights if a man has two wives and favors one over the other, ensuring that the firstborn son of the unloved wife still receives a double portion of inheritance.
  2. New Testament Perspective:
    • Christian Teachings: In the New Testament, polygamy is not directly addressed in the same way as in the Old Testament. However, teachings from the New Testament emphasize monogamous relationships. For instance, Jesus refers back to Genesis, where marriage is described as a union between one man and one woman (Matthew 19:4-6). This is often interpreted as promoting monogamy as the ideal model for Christian marriage.
    • Church Leadership: Paul’s epistles, such as 1 Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1:6, instruct that church leaders should be the "husband of one wife," which suggests a preference for monogamy among those in leadership roles.
  3. Cultural and Theological Context:
    • Cultural Norms: Polygamy was common in the ancient Near East and was a norm among many societies at the time the Bible was written. The Bible's regulation of polygamy reflects the cultural context rather than a direct endorsement or condemnation.
    • Theological Evolution: Over time, Jewish and Christian interpretations of marriage have increasingly emphasized monogamy. Many Christian denominations and Jewish traditions today uphold monogamous marriage as the ideal.
In summary, while the Old Testament records instances of polygamy and provides regulations for it, the New Testament leans towards monogamy as the preferred model for marriage. The evolution of theological thought has generally moved towards a monogamous understanding of marriage in contemporary Christian and Jewish practice.
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Honestly, that's a pretty fair answer. Obviously it doesn't lean as heavily into polygamy as most of us would prefer - but it doesn't lean hard into monogamy either. It's balanced. It's actually a far better answer than you would get from almost any human, because it is not skewed by emotion.

AI is not actually intelligent - it is code that is designed to make outputs that look intelligent, by copying the sorts of things that intelligent people would say. And it can most certainly do that. If someone posted that sort of content on this forum, the only thing that would make you really suspicious would be how well organised it is into bullet points - it doesn't sound like a forum post. So, I then asked ChatGPT "Please answer the last question in 3-5 paragraphs of text, not bullet points." And it gave me this, which is a perfectly reasonable forum post.
The Bible's treatment of polygamy is complex and reflects the cultural and historical context in which it was written. In the Old Testament, polygamy was relatively common and accepted in the ancient Near Eastern societies. Prominent figures such as King Solomon, who had 700 wives and 300 concubines, and Abraham, who had Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah, are examples of individuals with multiple spouses. The biblical text does not explicitly condemn polygamy but rather provides regulations to manage its implications. For instance, Exodus 21:10 outlines that a man with multiple wives must not diminish the rights or needs of his first wife, indicating a concern for fairness and justice within such family structures.
Deuteronomy 21:15-17 also addresses issues related to inheritance if a man has more than one wife, ensuring that the firstborn son of the less favored wife still receives his due inheritance. These regulations suggest an attempt to mitigate potential social and familial conflicts arising from polygamous arrangements. Despite these provisions, the Bible’s portrayal of polygamy is not without problems; various narratives highlight the tensions and difficulties that can arise from such arrangements.
In contrast, the New Testament shifts the focus towards monogamy. Although it does not explicitly address polygamy, it emphasizes monogamous marriage as the ideal. Jesus refers back to the Genesis account, where marriage is described as a union between one man and one woman (Matthew 19:4-6), reinforcing the concept of a monogamous relationship as a foundational principle. Additionally, Paul's epistles provide guidelines for church leaders, specifying that they should be the "husband of one wife" (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6), further promoting monogamy as the normative standard for Christian life.
Theological interpretations over time have increasingly emphasized monogamy as the ideal form of marriage. Modern Jewish and Christian traditions generally uphold monogamous marriage as the preferred model, reflecting a significant shift from the Old Testament practices. This evolution highlights how religious and cultural understandings of marriage have developed, moving from a context where polygamy was accepted to one where monogamy is often seen as the ideal.
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FollowingHim said:
Don't worry about the "real person" label, it doesn't change anything. It's just a way of showing readers that a decent portion of the people here have met each other in person, so we aren't a bunch of random basement dwellers making up fantasies about having lots of wives, this is actually real. It doesn't give you any extra privileges on the site.

More than you realise. I just went to ChatGPT and asked it "What does the law in the Bible say about polygamy?". This was its answer:

Honestly, that's a pretty fair answer. Obviously it doesn't lean as heavily into polygamy as most of us would prefer - but it doesn't lean hard into monogamy either. It's balanced. It's actually a far better answer than you would get from almost any human, because it is not skewed by emotion.

AI is not actually intelligent - it is code that is designed to make outputs that look intelligent, by copying the sorts of things that intelligent people would say. And it can most certainly do that. If someone posted that sort of content on this forum, the only thing that would make you really suspicious would be how well organised it is into bullet points - it doesn't sound like a forum post. So, I then asked ChatGPT "Please answer the last question in 3-5 paragraphs of text, not bullet points." And it gave me this, which is a perfectly reasonable forum post.
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Please understand that I ask these questions sincerely, though questions such as about A.I. are sincerely true. My son has started an internet business and talks about using A.I. all the time and he has not been successful in helping me understand it at all. Surely asking the internet a question merely brings up a series of articles on the subject. At least - that's what it has always done before. Anyway, I'm not hung up on the subject. I am really kind of "pulling your leg" a little with these little taunts. It truly does bother me A LITTLE BIT (I mean slightly) not to be considered a real person but without understanding this A.I. stuff, I understand that you want to be careful. So, it is no real hang up, it is just a friendly taunt from time to time. Thank you for the use of your site and allowing me to get to know people who are really ALREADY practicing poly while I am still looking for several poly women who have either lost their husband, or for a woman or two who would wish to "hang their hats on the same hook" as this old geezer (albeit, really young looking geezer - lol)
 
PastorLarry said:
It truly does bother me A LITTLE BIT (I mean slightly) not to be considered a real person but without understanding this A.I. stuff, I understand that you want to be careful.
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Oh, it's not that we think you're AI. It's that we think you could be some loser living in his mother's basement and spending all his time online making up fake profiles on social media sites and pretending to be a pastor here. Is that better? ;-)
Seriously, those labels have nothing to do with AI, we introduced them long before that was even a thing.
 
Just me but I don't believe that what we call artificial intelligence is quite there yet.

People think it is AI to ask a question about health care, for instance, and the AI comes back with an answer on that topic.

Actual artificial intelligence would take your question about healthcare and return related or logically downstream commentaries on things that would not be obviously connected to healthcare. AI is not making those logical or intuitive leaps yet so to me it is not truly intelligent.
 
Have you seen the videos on asking AI how many 'r's are in the word strawberry? Yeah, it's not really intelligent yet.
 
As someone that uses the frontier AI models, I would have to disagree. I am constantly up close and personal with it (retail versions, mind you) and am routinely astonished. For example, if I need to turn a mockup into a website it will do so, but also go ahead and code out the "details" that would just be nice. ...color schemes that work, onhover changes, etc. If programming, your result will be that of an expert programmer, if you explained the problem correctly. This carries for about everything I throw at it, except where the censorship starts to encroach. For instance, it has the logic for health topics, but has had its hands tied behind it with censorship. Still, if you walk it there the right way, it is insightful and with infinite patience.

Most people that are not that impressed are using older free models or not explaining their needs in the right way. For example, while capable, it needs you to break your needs down into smaller tasks rather than drop the whole project on it at once. For example, it can develop the plan to do X and then carry it out step by step....but not all in one button press. That's further down the line.

The strawberry issue is not a logic problem, it is a tokenization problem. Or, how it "see"s what you have written. It's not seeing letters, or even words. It's taking in chunks at a time, usually a word-ish....sometimes more, sometimes less. It's an issue, but it's not a logic issue.

We are in for a rapidly and wildly changing world. It should be good (overall), but wild.
 
Ugh...why is it always up to me to cut to the heart of the issue

You want ridicule, fine

Clearly it is time to speak some hard truths







 
FollowingHim said:
Oh, it's not that we think you're AI. It's that we think you could be some loser living in his mother's basement and spending all his time online making up fake profiles on social media sites and pretending to be a pastor here. Is that better? ;)
Seriously, those labels have nothing to do with AI, we introduced them long before that was even a thing.
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A basement? A basement? Ohhhhh to have a basement here in Iowa where the occasional tornado blows though. Instead, I just sit in my recliner, watching some inane TV show and figure when it's my time, it's my time. Speaking of basement - I've been watching shows recently on OLD TIME crimes and murders. The one I watched last evening was about a woman in the 1920's who kept a man in the attic of their house for the soul purpose of sex. Finally the husband caught the guy (I think this was after 8 years of him living up there) and the poor husband was shot. The astounding thing was that this guy and her claimed that they would have sex 6 to 10 times a day??? How does a man find a woman like that? I think I would be willing to live in an attic for that. So - maybe I am just a basement (or attic) dweller at heart. Yes, I think maybe I am.
 
HUH !!!!???? WHATS GOING ON ???

@Mark C has been banned ? Why?
What happened?
Is it permanent or temporary?
What was the offending post or the straw that broke the camels back?

First @Keith Martin seems to have left the building now Mark has been booted out...

I left you guys for a week and now look!
 
JudahYAHites said:
HUH !!!!???? WHATS GOING ON ???

@Mark C has been banned ? Why?
What happened?
Is it permanent or temporary?
What was the offending post or the straw that broke the camels back?

First @Keith Martin seems to have left the building now Mark has been booted out...

I left you guys for a week and now look!
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He's not permanently banned, he's temporarily blocked from posting for 48 hours for reasons as per the site rules, he'll be back.
 
JudahYAHites said:
HUH !!!!???? WHATS GOING ON ???

@Mark C has been banned ? Why?
What happened?
Is it permanent or temporary?
What was the offending post or the straw that broke the camels back?

First @Keith Martin seems to have left the building now Mark has been booted out...

I left you guys for a week and now look!
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Keith left ages ago. He hasn't posted on here since January.
 
FollowingHim said:
He's not permanently banned, he's temporarily blocked from posting for 48 hours for reasons as per the site rules, he'll be back.
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Maybe we need a little bit lighter banner in that case.
BANNED carries a very strong message.

Restricted would be a suggestion.
 
JudahYAHites said:
Yeah I realised, I reached out to him earlier this year.
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Keep meaning to give him a shout. I owe him a couple of beers and a meal. Been a crap friend lately. Life is busy but not an excuse
 
JudahYAHites said:
HUH !!!!???? WHATS GOING ON ???

@Mark C has been banned ? Why?
What happened?
Is it permanent or temporary?
What was the offending post or the straw that broke the camels back?
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It should be no secret. Zec wants me to leave the platform.

And in the "offending thread" - in the Ghetto, no less! - I asked a question that everyone who considers polygyny to be what it is - His Word concerning marriage - should be able to answer to their own satisfaction. The thread was deleted, for "Advocating for Torah keeping, and just stupid." And the "left foot of fellowship" followed.

And you aren't even allowed to know what it was. (But - it was, if I say so myself, perhaps the best argument for 'consistency' in our approach to Scripture, that I have seen. And thus 'verbotten' - even in that ghetto.)

Let me repeat: I have no problem with honest discussion, even disagreement, because "iron sharpens iron." But censorship, particularly when it is "arbitrary and capricious," just because Power, is corrupting of what BF should be about.

I appreciate that "something" may eventually be done. BUT:

I hope those who fostered the malignancy will finally take notice.
 
Mark C said:
It should be no secret. Zec wants me to leave the platform.
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IF that is true then at least you are aware of his intentions. You guys have a history that stretches far back and the nuances and issues have probably built up over time. Don't let it affect how you present what you contribute.


Mark C said:
And in the "offending thread" - in the Ghetto, no less! - I asked a question that everyone who considers polygyny to be what it is - His Word concerning marriage - should be able to answer to their own satisfaction.
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Okay

Mark C said:
The thread was deleted, for "Advocating for Torah keeping, and just stupid." And the "left foot of fellowship" followed.
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As a relative newbie, I will say from an independent position as a spectator of this whole fracas, having observed many discussions turning sour and being part of some their is a definite anti torah slant, HOWEVER, the responses I have seen on here are mirrored in real life conversations where those in opposition to torah do get into their feelings quite quickly entering into adhominem rhetoric. So, I personally don't think it is essentially a BF isolated issue and whatever issue you have with Zec seems to be outside of the torah issue.


Mark C said:
And you aren't even allowed to know what it was. (But - it was, if I say so myself, perhaps the best argument for 'consistency' in our approach to Scripture, that I have seen. And thus 'verbotten' - even in that ghetto.)
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I recall you stating something with regards to letting people know that the feasts are YAH's feasts etc as a way to get to an understanding that his laws / instructions on marriage still stand today, but cannot find it.
If that was it I didn't get to respond to it, but I see the value in that angle for those who are really searching for truth I just hadn't looked at it from that perspective.

Mark C said:
Let me repeat: I have no problem with honest discussion, even disagreement, because "iron sharpens iron." But censorship, particularly when it is "arbitrary and capricious," just because Power, is corrupting of what BF should be about.

I appreciate that "something" may eventually be done. BUT:

I hope those who fostered the malignancy will finally take notice.
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Again IF that truly is the case or even if it is just how you feel about the situation, I believe the best thing to do is to make "the getto" a beautiful place to visit.
If you keep getting into it with Zec it diminishes and distracts from whatever your initial point and premise was.
We already know that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, so whether one is a Torah keeper or one is a free gracer at least let's try to keep discussions focused on finding and walking the straight and narrow way.

I came to BF hoping to find like-minded men with mainly edifying discussions, sadly that hasn't been the case in the main with a few exceptions, but it doesn't change my life and I'm sure it doesn't change yours.

I mentioned that Keith left the building and I miss his contributions even though we didn't always agree.

This is not your house or my house it is BF house. I don't know what BF "should be about", BUT, what if the way it is, IS how it is meant to be ?

What then ?

It's not what I thought it would be, it is what it is.

You have too much to contribute to be gaslighted into getting permanently banned.

I don't agree with everything you say but I appreciate your perspective as I do some others.

As far as I see it this is biblical families NOT biblical friends and most families have issues.
 
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