Shared vs separate bank accounts?

[FollowingHim]

Samuel, farm families live with the reality of children putting more into the family business than an other kids.
How is that dealt with and maybe compensated nowadays?

I don't know how everyone else does it, but this is my approach.

I expect my children to help on the farm to some degree in the same way that I expect them to do the dishes - it's just part of life. And it's a key part of their education - they are learning specific skills that they can get jobs doing, and general work ethics that can be applied to any job. We don't pay children to go to school, and this is school. I will frequently ask a child to come with me to help with something, and their reward is simply the enjoyment they get from working with Dad and animals.

However, when there's a major job happening, such as shearing, and I get them to work for a solid day, I'll pay them something in proportion to the actual value of their work. That too is training - work is good, not just a chore, as you actually get rewarded for it. My eldest son has done quite well out of that recently, as he did a man's job shedhanding when we shore the lambs a couple of weeks ago and got paid accordingly.

Why do you ask?

 

[steve]

I don't know how everyone else does it, but this is my approach.

I expect my children to help on the farm to some degree in the same way that I expect them to do the dishes - it's just part of life. And it's a key part of their education - they are learning specific skills that they can get jobs doing, and general work ethics that can be applied to any job. We don't pay children to go to school, and this is school. I will frequently ask a child to come with me to help with something, and their reward is simply the enjoyment they get from working with Dad and animals.

However, when there's a major job happening, such as shearing, and I get them to work for a solid day, I'll pay them something in proportion to the actual value of their work. That too is training - work is good, not just a chore, as you actually get rewarded for it. My eldest son has done quite well out of that recently, as he did a man's job shedhanding when we shore the lambs a couple of weeks ago and got paid accordingly.

Why do you ask?

I see somewhat of a small parallel between what children contribute to a business without expecting full compensation, and a sister wife working with/for the family.

 

[Yan]

Love isn't even required scripturally for marriage to begin with

Love is implicit in saying that husband and wife are one flesh.

 

[steve]

A marriage should involve love, but the love that exists at the conception should be much different than the love that is being experienced 10-20 years down the road.

The initial love doesn’t have to be all fluttery romance, just a deep enough respect to commit to the other person/family.

 

[FollowingHim]

I see somewhat of a small parallel between what children contribute to a business without expecting full compensation, and a sister wife working with/for the family.

The difference is that the children are only in the home temporarily, and are preparing for a life of their own, for which they need to build their own asset base. While the wife is in the home permanently, so has no need for an independent asset base. So I would pay children money when their work merited it, but would not pay a wife - her payment is the same as my own. They get a portion, while she gets everything (shared with me).

 

[theleastofthese]

The difference is that the children are only in the home temporarily, and are preparing for a life of their own, for which they need to build their own asset base. While the wife is in the home permanently, so has no need for an independent asset base. So I would pay children money when their work merited it, but would not pay a wife - her payment is the same as my own. They get a portion, while she gets everything (shared with me).

It's not the same as your own or the same as your first wife's for the second or third wife, in the US, she would get absolutely nothing compared to the husband and first wife sharing 50/50...actually she would contribute to martial property of those two if she contributed to the household AND then be entitled to nothing which is even worse.

 

[FollowingHim]

It's not the same for the second or third wife, in the US, she would get absolutely nothing compared to the husband and first wife sharing 50/50...actually she would contribute to martial property of those two if she contributed to the household AND then be entitled to nothing which is even worse.

And here we go again. You're talking about what she gets if the marriage fails. I'm talking about what she gets if the marriage succeeds.

 

[theleastofthese]

And here we go again. You're talking about what she gets if the marriage fails. I'm talking about what she gets if the marriage succeeds.

So her well-being is only important if everything works out. I'm sure that's easy for you but she would be foolish to find that a reasonable agreement.

 

[NBTX11]

if everything works out.

Make it work out. Bottom line.

Be the world’s greatest wife and it WILL work out.

Any husband worth anything will never, ever get rid of a wife like that.

 

[FollowingHim]

So her well-being is only important if everything works out.

Never said that. I'm consistently saying the best way to ensure her wellbeing is to plan for success.

 

[theleastofthese]

Make it work out. Bottom line.

Be the world’s greatest wife and it WILL work out.

Any husband worth anything will never, ever get rid of a wife like that.

That is simply not true...first off there is no world's greatest wife, we're all flawed. Second, many good women and men have been left and divorced, it's not nice to assume they didn't try their best at something because things didn't work out in their favor.

 

[FollowingHim]

Maybe an illustration is in order. Imagine you're a builder, and you have a contract to build a house. It's a tough job, you're not sure if you should have taken it on as you've never built a house quite that ambitious before, but you think you can probably do it. Do you:
1: Throw all of your effort and resources into building that house?
Or
2: Siphon off as many building materials as you can into your own garage so if the whole project fails and you don't get paid at least you'll have a few things you kept for yourself that you can sell off and not be completely broke?

Which option is most likely to achieve the greatest wellbeing for you? Particularly given that if you follow option 1, you'll probably complete the job and get paid for it, while if you follow option 2 it will be far less likely for the house to succeed and far more likely that you'll be falling back on your little stash to buy bread.

 

[FollowingHim]

Luke 9:62
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Edit: This is a similar illustration. Ploughing with an ox team is a difficult job requiring constant attention. If you look back you're more likely to have a disaster.

 

[frederick]

That is simply not true...first off there is no world's greatest wife, we're all flawed. Second, many good women and men have been left and divorced, it's not nice to assume they didn't try their best at something because things didn't work out in their favor.

Perhaps the men here are looking at the likely success of the marriage from a sound biblical perspective(?) If all parties involved, husband and each wife, are saved and growing in sanctification then planning for success is quite reasonable. Stand steadfast in the truth of God's Word, trust Him implicitly; He will never leave you or forsake you, and you can be confident in a blessed future. Shalom

 

[theleastofthese]

I'd prefer not to quote every single comment I'd like to respond to; therefore, I'll summarize my stance once again and most likely leave it at that because I feel as though i'm beating a dead horse at this point

If anyone can scripturally point me in the direction of where love is a prerequisite for marriage, I'd be interested to see it. My feeling is that two people become one flesh when they have sex. Humans don't need to love one another to have sex; we also don't need to love one another to make a commitment. Many marriages began for reasons other than love, and to me, those marriages aren't any less valid than anyone else's simply because love wasn't the initial motive.

Back to the subject, there is absolutely no legal protection for a second or third wife when entering into an already established marriage. A second or third wife will never have the built-in safety net of a court siding with her or the comfort of knowing that she is entitled to 50/50 of the martial assets. Even in the case of a trust or a prenup, I have a feeling that all it would take is a scorned first wife crying to the right judge that her cheating husband invited his mistresses to live in their martial home against her wishes, and then he proceeded to distribute their martial property however he saw fit amongst them. In a society that already frowns upon polygany, this would surely gain sympathy for the first wife.

That not only means that a woman seeking to join a family has to vet her husband, she also has to vet her sister wife. I don't think women should be required to do such a thing; i'm not entirely convinced we're even capable of doing such things or that it's even our place to do so. Therefore, I proposed what I see as a simple solution: allow the second and third wives to have savings accounts that only they can access.

I'd like to clarify that when I suggest this, I'm not speaking about hoarding an immense amount of money for an escape-net. I'm suggesting an amount that will not deplete the family resources and will not cause any debt or strain on the family. For example, in my personal situation, I'll enter into the family with no children, no future children, and no debt. I would likely contribute $2,500 to $3,500 per month to the family funds (depending upon the state in which my family is located). Taking $75 per month into my own savings account would only equate to $2,700 over the course of 3 years...

That is not a lot of money; where i'm from, that's not even enough to cover two months worth of bills. It's just enough to rent a place for a month and start over at the very bottom. It's certainly not enough to throw three years of marriage away for. I don't feel as though it's too much to ask for.

I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can hold the belief that a woman who has spent years in a marriage, years submitting to her husband, years adapting to her new family, years loving her sister wife, years loving her sister wife and husband's children, as well as being a wife who also joyfully contributes thousands of dollars per month to her family fund, would suddenly wake up one day and throw it all away for a mere one month's salary because, boo-hoo, marriage is hard sometimes

Another point: I've known many good men; they all have differences of opinions on various topics, and they all run their households differently. I do not hold the belief that a few good men have the power to speak for all good men.

I also don't hold the belief that speaking of the negatives or planning for the worst will cause them to happen. Yes, we're to have faith, but we're not limited by Yah to only faith.

I also do not subscribe to the belief that planning for the worst stems from fear or insecurities. It comes from using logic instead of your heart, and as women, we're very much prone to leading with our hearts. When entering into a lifelong commitment, i'm choosing to lead with my brain first and follow my heart after. I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong, and while what i'm saying may not be pleasing to the ears, I don't believe I'm doing anything that is prohibited scripturally, and if I am, i'd be interested in seeing the proof.

 

[steve]

I'd prefer not to quote every single comment I'd like to respond to; therefore, I'll summarize my stance once again and most likely leave it at that because I feel as though i'm beating a dead horse at this point

If anyone can scripturally point me in the direction of where love is a prerequisite for marriage, I'd be interested to see it. My feeling is that two people become one flesh when they have sex. Humans don't need to love one another to have sex; we also don't need to love one another to make a commitment. Many marriages began for reasons other than love, and to me, those marriages aren't any less valid than anyone else's simply because love wasn't the initial motive.

Back to the subject, there is absolutely no legal protection for a second or third wife when entering into an already established marriage. A second or third wife will never have the built-in safety net of a court siding with her or the comfort of knowing that she is entitled to 50/50 of the martial assets. Even in the case of a trust or a prenup, I have a feeling that all it would take is a scorned first wife crying to the right judge that her cheating husband invited his mistresses to live in their martial home against her wishes, and then he proceeded to distribute their martial property however he saw fit amongst them. In a society that already frowns upon polygany, this would surely gain sympathy for the first wife.

That not only means that a woman seeking to join a family has to vet her husband, she also has to vet her sister wife. I don't think women should be required to do such a thing; i'm not entirely convinced we're even capable of doing such things or that it's even our place to do so. Therefore, I proposed what I see as a simple solution: allow the second and third wives to have savings accounts that only they can access.

I'd like to clarify that when I suggest this, I'm not speaking about hoarding an immense amount of money for an escape-net. I'm suggesting an amount that will not deplete the family resources and will not cause any debt or strain on the family. For example, in my personal situation, I'll enter into the family with no children, no future children, and no debt. I would likely contribute $2,500 to $3,500 per month to the family funds (depending upon the state in which my family is located). Taking $75 per month into my own savings account would only equate to $2,700 over the course of 3 years...

That is not a lot of money; where i'm from, that's not even enough to cover two months worth of bills. It's just enough to rent a place for a month and start over at the very bottom. It's certainly not enough to throw three years of marriage away for. I don't feel as though it's too much to ask for.

I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can hold the belief that a woman who has spent years in a marriage, years submitting to her husband, years adapting to her new family, years loving her sister wife, years loving her sister wife and husband's children, as well as being a wife who also joyfully contributes thousands of dollars per month to her family fund, would suddenly wake up one day and throw it all away for a mere one month's salary because, boo-hoo, marriage is hard sometimes

Another point: I've known many good men; they all have differences of opinions on various topics, and they all run their households differently. I do not hold the belief that a few good men have the power to speak for all good men.

I also don't hold the belief that speaking of the negatives or planning for the worst will cause them to happen. Yes, we're to have faith, but we're not limited by Yah to only faith.

I also do not subscribe to the belief that planning for the worst stems from fear or insecurities. It comes from using logic instead of your heart, and as women, we're very much prone to leading with our hearts. When entering into a lifelong commitment, i'm choosing to lead with my brain first and follow my heart after. I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong; I don't believe I'm doing anything that is prohibited scripturally, and if I am, i'd be interested in seeing the proof.

I feel that you have taken a very reasonable stance.

 

[NBTX11]

Many marriages began for reasons other than love

Make sure yours begins with love.

allow the second and third wives to have savings accounts that only they can access.

This is going to be up to your potential husband, but I probably wouldn’t allow this personally. God has entrusted me to run my family and that includes family finances. I can’t do that if I can’t access all family funds. There shouldn’t be funds hidden from the husband or funds he can’t access. If he agreed to a separate joint account, then possibly it might work. I prefer management my family finances from one account, but other men may differ. I’m going to provide safety nets for my wives in the event I pass and I won’t divorce them…ever, short of them committing adultery and I have a 32 year track record to back it up.

 

[frederick]

I'd like to clarify that when I suggest this, I'm not speaking about hoarding an immense amount of money for an escape-net. I'm suggesting an amount that will not deplete the family resources and will not cause any debt or strain on the family. For example, in my personal situation, I'll enter into the family with no children, no future children, and no debt. I would likely contribute $2,500 to $3,500 per month to the family funds (depending upon the state in which my family is located). Taking $75 per month into my own savings account would only equate to $2,700 over the course of 3 years...

Excellent! Thank you for the clarification which helps my understanding a lot. I'm from outside of the USA so have different circumstances and therefore do things differently sometimes. And I know some on the forum here will disagree with me because of their own situations, which is fine.

It is an unfortunate reality that emergencies occur and when they do, they can create financial stresses. Because of that, in my relationships each of us has an emergency fund that can be accessed if there is a sudden need. For example, in the case of an unexpected death joint bank accounts might be frozen or services might be stopped. Having the ability to survive financially for a couple of months is sensible, and that's for each person in our polygynous marriage. We're not planning on failing in our relationship but we are prepared for an emergency.

Far too many people live from paycheck to paycheck and get into major difficulty if an emergency occurs. People borrow money unnecessarily, max-out their credit cards, and are totally unprepared for even the cost of replacing a blown tyre on their car. That's not a wise situation to be in. Again, plan and work hard for success but be prepared in case of an emergency. Shalom

 

[steve]

Make sure yours begins with love.

This is going to be up to your potential husband, but I probably wouldn’t allow this personally. God has entrusted me to run my family and that includes family finances. I can’t do that if I can’t access all family funds. There shouldn’t be funds hidden from the husband or funds he can’t access. If he agreed to a separate joint account, then possibly it might work. I prefer management my family finances from one account, but other men may differ. I’m going to provide safety nets for my wives in the event I pass and I won’t divorce them…ever, short of them committing adultery and I have a 32 year track record to back it up.

I’ve seen women who couldn’t keep an extra ten bucks in their account if their life depended upon it. A woman that can hold on to some should be a blessing.
The small amount that she is talking about wouldn’t change anything about the family budget and could possibly be a blessing down the road if something happened (main account hacked) and she had that extra.
Please realize that the amount that she is talking about contributing to the family should be an actual net gain for the family, and you are hung up over not having control of a pittance?

 

[NickF]

I don’t have time to type out a worthy response right now but the small amount you’re describing was not what it sounded like in earlier posts. That’s why I suspected we were all speaking at cross purposes.

It would be a small and easy thing for a woman in that kind of situation to contribute enough to a family to not be a financial burden for 6 months to a year while living with them getting to know everyone before marrying. During that time socking away far more in her own savings would be an easy thing. So the concerns about financial matters is moot.

Building a rainy day fund would be easy and reasonable in that kind of situation.

It’s probably pointless to discuss hypotheticals when it comes to matters of relationships. If you found a good man to marry I’m sure your fears of possible abandonment would be alleviated. Love does a tremendous amount of fear dispelling.