So... I told my pastor that I believe a man having more than one wife is not a sin

[Mojo]

Hi,

I never bring up any controversial subject in a group setting unless it has gotten to the point where truth must be defended. That goes for any subject. Not that it helps, but I try to do it from the "You might want to consider" concept while reminding the group that God's word is most important. Opinions are just that. Church doctrine comes about as man's idea of what scripture taught, but is sometimes modified over the generations. Some doctrines are based on a bad translation.

There was a while when I wondered if "Ask Me About Polygyny" was written on my forehead. Of several instances the one that stands out the most was in the hospital in Nashville. I am standing at the foot of my Dad's hospital bed. Mom was there as well as three nurses and my wife. Dad couldn't talk and Mom was in the beginnings of Alzheimer's. The conversation had been about Dad's progress. One of the nurses looked at me and asked, "What do you think about polygamy?". I quickly told her it was scriptural and fine. She was satisfied and left the room. Never saw her there again.

The worst I have ever seen was a little church in North Carolina where I suggested that Gomer didn't run away. Scripture says nothing about that. My wife and I had studied it out that week. We really hadn't noticed it before. So we suggested that God directed Hosea to take as wife a friend of Gomer's. It all works when you consider the two houses of Israel. An older gentleman across the room got so mad he started spitting trying to talk. He literally couldn't form words after that. That was a learning experience to me that any one could get that upset over an idea. Of course no one could prove that Gomer ran away, but they preferred the lie to what scripture said there. Who knows maybe years later someone who had been there was helped by that?

Personally I don't usually tell the preacher anything. There is no scriptural precedent that the preacher is some sort of go between between man and Christ or man and the church. The position of Elders come closer to that, but usually they don't know any more than anyone else. There are always exceptions of course. Eventually after enough helpful comments in Bible class one of them might approach you. I answer anything they ask, but I still have yet to meet any who were interested in what the scripture said. Their main goal was to protect the status quo and church doctrine. Breaking the status quo can upset grandma, split the church and ruin a nice paying job for the preacher.

Sure wish I had known about the Greek behind 1 Corinthians 7:2 more than a couple years ago.

Tim

Holy smokes! Hosea is buying another wife, not buying her back? Whoa, never saw it that way, but it makes total sense in light of the nation being split. Jehovah would have to marry Israel and Judah, to still be their God (master, servant, husband). When did you see this? Did someone else show you?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Ah, thank you. That is a very significant piece of information.

 

[lutherangirl]

Now that is fascinating (Hosea 3:1 and context). We're always told Gomer ran away, but you're right that scripture never says that at all. It really does suggest that he might be marrying her friend, why else would the word "friend" be even mentioned? A second wife would fit the prophetic narrative very neatly. Although we're not told who the wife's "friend" was, she may have been friends with someone other than Gomer, that may even refer to a male friend she would go and commit adultery with because we are also told she would be an adulteress. We've got a tiny reference that could be read in multiple ways, the possibilities are endless. Lots to ponder.

I've pursued Hosea and can't find the word "friend"? I'm I missing something?

 

[FollowingHim]

Just a translation issue. It is Hosea 3:1, but not all translations use the word "friend".
KJV: Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.
WEB: Yahweh said to me, “Go again, love a woman loved by another, and an adulteress, even as Yahweh loves the children of Israel, though they turn to other gods, and love cakes of raisins.”

The WEB seems to make it clearer that this "friend" is the man the woman will commit adultery with.

 

[Mojo]

Hence the "Go again" in this version...marry again.
Still marveling on this one. NEVER saw it before. Thanks for posting this.

 

[ke4ke]

Hi,

Here is another aspect about the listings for elder and deacon. "Must have one wife" is a positive statement. There are several positive and negative statements in the list. If one views the word one as a limiting factor then the phrase is no longer positive and it's intent has been changed. "Must have a first wife" is a possibility, but personally I go with the concept "must be married".

Adultery is adulteration or mixing. Specifically in the case of marriage it is the mixing of a man's seed in a woman who is someone else's wife. There must always be a married woman involved or there is no adulteration.

The word divorce in only found in three verses in the new testament. Each time is has a phrase similar to "writing of divorcement". Most all of the other times you see the word divorce it should be understood as separated only, as in separated, but still married. I say most of the time because I believe there is once or twice where the phrase put away is used as a short cut phrase being the final act of divorce and put away.

Tim

 

[ke4ke]

Holy smokes! Hosea is buying another wife, not buying her back? Whoa, never saw it that way, but it makes total sense in light of the nation being split. Jehovah would have to marry Israel and Judah, to still be their God (master, servant, husband). When did you see this? Did someone else show you?

I don't really remember for sure. We knew ahead of time that the subject would be Hosea 3 so my wife and I studied it during the week. One of us saw it. I don't think we had seen that before that study? This was the end of 1998 or early 1999 at a small church on the South side of Greenville, NC. Hehe, Needless to say we didn't feel welcome in that class again and visited elsewhere.

By the way, not to divert the subject, but you might find this interesting and hopefully not judmental. http://oraclesofyah.org/tet.php

Tim

 

[WLS78]

As a Pastor myself I know well the pressure of the office & the challenges of it. I run into many fellow Pastors that know many true doctrines that aren't taught in the churches they serve, when we discuss issues they avoid with the body I often press them to why they don't take a stand. Usually the response is something along the lines of fear of losing their churches or they think it's just not worth the fight. I've never been that guy & it's cost me members, friends and my name's been drug through the mud in the little rual area I live in a lot. This January I'm stepping down and my family & I are going to begin home church for a season, your Pastor is either cowardly and can't admit he's ignorant on this, truly unlearned or maybe not not called by God to Pastor. It's a sad day for the churches in America, we have gotten so far from the Bible that when it's actually used to guide the church people rebel and think some strange thing is happening . I'm sorry you're facing this, I've made it crystal clear polygamy is scriptural, the body at the church I Pastor rejects it almost unanimously , what does a Christian do? I sought God's answer for my family, for us it was to Home Church & moving.

 

[Mojo]

I don't really remember for sure. We knew ahead of time that the subject would be Hosea 3 so my wife and I studied it during the week. One of us saw it. I don't think we had seen that before that study? This was the end of 1998 or early 1999 at a small church on the South side of Greenville, NC. Hehe, Needless to say we didn't feel welcome in that class again and visited elsewhere.

By the way, not to divert the subject, but you might find this interesting and hopefully not judmental. http://oraclesofyah.org/tet.php

Tim

Totally not offended, and totally aware of the concepts and principles behind the Tetragrammaton and the names of God. I agree with the article and think it is not a sin or a blasphemy to utter His name, since even in Hebrew, it's always there as El, Elohim, Tetragrammaton, etc. I do hope you won't be offended if I don't always follow the rules according to this article, though. I don't mean to be purposefully iconoclastic, but I think being dogmatic about this is not where I want to establish my battle flag. I generally just use generic God, GOD, or Lord, but if I'm typing fast and Jehovah just pops in my head, I just go with it. If others are offended, I guess I can change that habit.

 

[NetWatchR]

If others are offended, I guess I can change that habit.

Your intentions are in the right place; however, I would disagree with that in general. I would recommend using what you feel led to do UNLESS you are speaking directly with someone who you know is offended by a specific name/phrase/act. Too often i see Romans 14 (?) taught to prohibit nearly every allowable thing because it might offend someone. I don't believe that's the intent. If you are feeling led to use a specific phrase at a specific time, there very well may be a spiritual reason for it.

 

[Mojo]

Your intentions are in the right place; however, I would disagree with that in general. I would recommend using what you feel led to do UNLESS you are speaking directly with someone who you know is offended by a specific name/phrase/act. Too often i see Romans 14 (?) taught to prohibit nearly every allowable thing because it might offend someone. I don't believe that's the intent. If you are feeling led to use a specific phrase at a specific time, there very well may be a spiritual reason for it.

Thanks. I don't have a lot of experience on this site, so I wasn't sure if it was a BF de facto preference for staying away from certain terms. I wanted to be gracious to the whole body of posters...."when in Rome..."

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Wait a minute, are you calling us romans? I'm offended!

 

[Mojo]

Ha ha! Good one.

"When in the land of Biblical Families posters..."

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Well, you papered over that one rather well, haha.

 

[ke4ke]

Totally not offended, and totally aware of the concepts and principles behind the Tetragrammaton and the names of God.

Hi, No offense here either. We all use the generic titles. There is controversy about the sacred name spelling even as I'm sure you know. I've received a number of emails from people telling me what they felt was correct and then promptly get very mad and send me to their hell when I told them that we needed to be patient with those who didn't know or that their spelling might not be the only way to spell the name. I would really appreciate someone who could validate the "hovah" idea. I've never seen it any where else.

Tim

 

[The Revolting Man]

You know, He's going to give each of us a name only He knows. Maybe we'll have a private name for Him. The thing about names is that it allows us to define and classify, things that we can't do with God anyway. We can't give Him an accurate name and even if we could we would blaspheme by letting it come out of our filthy mouths. This might be something we just can't know yet. It certainly isn't made clear in scripture.

 

[Mojo]

Hi, No offense here either. We all use the generic titles. There is controversy about the sacred name spelling even as I'm sure you know. I've received a number of emails from people telling me what they felt was correct and then promptly get very mad and send me to their hell when I told them that we needed to be patient with those who didn't know or that their spelling might not be the only way to spell the name. I would really appreciate someone who could validate the "hovah" idea. I've never seen it any where else.

Tim

I don't know where it came from either. The simplest explanation I've heard is that people just tried to join the known (or what they think is known) consonants with logical vowels for English....and voila! Jehovah. Simple, I know, but I'm not gonna get my BVDs in a wad over it. There so much we don't know of the Almighty as it is!

 

[ke4ke]

I don't know where it came from either. The simplest explanation I've heard is that people just tried to join the known (or what they think is known) consonants with logical vowels for English....and voila! Jehovah.

Hi, I believe is that in the case with Yahweh or a variant of that. The only difference here with the word jehovah is that the "hovah" part does have a Hebrew meaning of ruin or destroy with a root meaning of failing. In that case the name takes on a dark or negative meaning.

Anyway enough of that. It has been fun chatting.

Tim

 

[FollowingHim]

I understand that "Yahuah" or "Yahovah" is what you get with a reading of the consonants alone and the vowel sounds they imply, depending whether you pronounce the vav as a u or a v, ignoring the Masoretic vowel points. And "Jehovah" is what you get when you spell it with a "J" back when that used to be pronounced "I" or "Y" (as it was at the the time of the KJV translation) and then later the sound of the letter is changed. So I think there is an understandable logic behind it. I have seen equally strong criticism of "Yahweh" being completely wrong.

But it really isn't an issue to get upset about. The point is, in any case, the speaker is trying to honour Him by using His name. They might have the pronunciation wrong, through their own fallibility and the fallibility of their human teachers. But the intent of the heart is what matters. I don't think the precise pronunciation is something to get upset about. Nor is the use of the words "God" or "Lord" for that matter. Study to be fully convinced in your own mind, then do whatever that is.

 

[Mojo]

Hi, I believe is that in the case with Yahweh or a variant of that. The only difference here with the word jehovah is that the "hovah" part does have a Hebrew meaning of ruin or destroy with a root meaning of failing. In that case the name takes on a dark or negative meaning.

Anyway enough of that. It has been fun chatting.

Tim

Is it possible that it's coincidental? I mean, the English translators may have not realized the significance of hovah and did their best to Anglicize the Tetragrammaton?