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Torah vs Grace?

Thank you so much for the explanation... I guess I have some reading to do on the subject! It makes sense to me.
The Revolting Man said:
@Pacman said it as well as it could be said. Sometimes we’ll call ourselves Torah observant or Hebrew Roots and we have some similarities with Messianic Jews and even some branches or Seventh Day Adventist’s. It’s a very broad movement and sometimes those on the fringes can stray in to some extreme weirdness so you have to be careful.

If I had to put it in to a nutshell we believe that God’s Words are eternal and that for the most parts the Commands He gave us in the Old Testament are still in effect. After that there’s not one definition.
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thank you this is something I would like to look into, do you have websites or books you could recommend?
 
Jopi said:
Thank you so much for the explanation... I guess I have some reading to do on the subject! It makes sense to me.


thank you this is something I would like to look into, do you have websites or books you could recommend?
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There’s a YouTube channel that does a pretty good job, I can’t think of it’s name but again @Pacman probably does know. I’m actually not aware of a good, simple source. It’s a complex subject. We talk a lot about it here though. Feel free to ask all the questions you have.
 
Watching the first video and something jumps out at me. The question is asked about absolute truth, whether it was really absolute. I am reminded when Dr. Ross visited our church and I challenged his premise about the Starlight problem, which he harps on all the time as it is his main argument that the universe must be billions of years old, and that when Scripture says "day" or "Yom", it could possibly mean "epoch". He doesn't hold to the notion that constants can change. Well, by definition, they can't, but the real question is whether the things identified as constant, are really constant to begin with, or is there a formula related to another non-constant, that theses things that are thought to be constant, are related to and based upon?
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
It also brings up the law being perfect. A quick search on Google brings me this: https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/Hebrews_7.19.php
and this: https://bittersweetend.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/covenant-theology-and-gods-perfect-law/
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The Law is perfect, always was, always will be. The problem is we are not and we can never match that perfection, so in God's Love and Mercy He gave us His Son and through our faith in His promise to save us we up hold the Law through Christ.
 
Cap said:
What's the difference between eternal destruction or eternal torment, except maybe a justified conscience in those who view it from the outside.
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It's the difference between having the sticky plaster pulled very slowly over an incredibly long time to maximise the sensation of pain, and then when it's finally gone sticking on another one and starting again, on and on for eternity. Or just whipping it off in one quick movement and being done.
 
FollowingHim said:
It's the difference between having the sticky plaster pulled very slowly over an incredibly long time to maximise the sensation of pain, and then when it's finally gone sticking on another one and starting again, on and on for eternity. Or just whipping it off in one quick movement and being done.
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Either way doesn't sound like a loving God who promised that He would restore all to it's proper order.
 
What matters most is what Scripture teaches, regardless of how nice God may seem.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
What matters most is what Scripture teaches, regardless of how nice God may seem.
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It's not about being nice, it's about justification.

In Isaiah it speaks of God who blinds people and makes them deaf. Where is the justification if He doesn't deal with His creation to make things right.
 
God never needs to be justified. Only sinners need justification.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
God never needs to be justified. Only sinners need justification.
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God doesn't need to justify Himself to us, but He does need to operate in just measures to be God.

Think of it as a mathematical equation, the solution must justify the problem, or the formula fails.
 
Cap said:
God doesn't need to justify Himself to us, but He does need to operate in just measures to be God.

Think of it as a mathematical equation, the solution must justify the problem, or the formula fails.
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Just measures according to whose standard of justice? We don't stand in judgement of God. God is God because He is. And He decides what justice is not us.
 
rockfox said:
Just measures according to whose standard of justice? We don't stand in judgement of God. God is God because He is. And He decides what justice is not us.
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But He did provide scripture so we could figure out what His justice is so we could understand and apply it to our lives towards others.
 
I would say that mostly applies to our lives, and secondarily to others, not to God, but to other people, particularly those whom Jesus warned would be false prophets, when He said, "You shall know them by their fruit".
 
It's obvious you didn't get the quasi shadow ban memo, but it's all good we can still continue. I think you are a relatively down to earth, practical kind a person and I agree, most of what we are to learn about God is really for us to apply to each other.
 
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