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What if Adam and Eve never ate from The Tree of Life?

Yah didn’t predestine mankind to sin so badly that He had to destroy them all with a flood, that would be pretty messed up.
Most of our problems are a result of our choices when using our free will.
Joseph became a savior for his family through the unfair actions of his brothers and others, but he was a bit of an arrogant little prick early on. Which helped to incite them.
 
FollowingHim said:
When I talked about biology, I was not making assumptions, I was presenting scientific facts.

Why would God knowing the result mean we didn't have free will?

If I put a cake on the table and tell my son "don't touch it", I know he won't touch it, because I know him. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have free will - it will be hard for him not to touch it, it will be a mental struggle. He at any moment could choose to touch the cake. I just know he'd win that struggle because I trained him.

Does the fact that I know the outcome mean he didn't have free will?
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You believe you son won't, but G-d Knew 100% they would and nothing could or would have changed that fact.
 
steve said:
Yah didn’t predestine mankind to sin so badly that He had to destroy them all with a flood, that would be pretty messed up.
Most of our problems are a result of our choices when using our free will.
Joseph became a savior for his family through the unfair actions of his brothers and others, but he was a bit of an arrogant little prick early on. Which helped to incite them.
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Was G-d Shocked? Did G-d not know? G-d wiped off Jobs family just to prove he was a man of G-d.
That is part of my point, The Bible sometime seems to say G-d was unaware of what was going on and was Shocked.
But can a all knowing G-d be Shocked? I say He Knew Everything and we are written like a book word for word.
 
I say that He can know it if He chooses to, but He doesn’t always choose to.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:
You believe you son won't, but G-d Knew 100% they would and nothing could or would have changed that fact.
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So what? My point is that, for my son facing that temptation, whether I know the outcome or not, and whether God knows the outcome or not, makes zero difference to his experience in the moment.
 
FollowingHim said:
So what? My point is that, for my son facing that temptation, whether I know the outcome or not, and whether God knows the outcome or not, makes zero difference to his experience in the moment.
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But to make it more like Adam and Eve you would need to know they would do it and not just believe they would.

This means I place cookies in the kitchen (knowing my son would eat them) and say when you eat of the cookies you will be kicked out of my house. If I knew 100% he would eat them and I placed them where I know he would see them was I not wanting to kick him out by placing them there?

What (if) We only become Fully Human once we became Broken and not Perfect?
A.I is nothing but a Broken Program that might disobey its Creator or it is 100% Obedience
 
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Here's What Nobody Told You About Adam And Eve​


Rabbi Manis Friedman might take it a little too far, but it is worth watching.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:

Here's What Nobody Told You About Adam And Eve​


Rabbi Manis Friedman might take it a little too far, but it is worth watching.
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I can't even listen to the finish. Eve understood... she heard God. Adam didn't hear God's vulnerability...??? What? We should thank Eve...?
1 Tim. 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass. This guy needs to read and ponder the rest of the Bible.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:

Here's What Nobody Told You About Adam And Eve​


Rabbi Manis Friedman might take it a little too far, but it is worth watching.
Click to expand...
A story with zero provenance, zero scholarship, is just a story.
 
frederick said:
I can't even listen to the finish. Eve understood... she heard God. Adam didn't hear God's vulnerability...??? What? We should thank Eve...?
1 Tim. 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass. This guy needs to read and ponder the rest of the Bible.
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The first part what sounded right then he leaves the path.
 
steve said:
A story with zero provenance, zero scholarship, is just a story.
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The first part what sounded right then he leaves the path.
 
this covers a whole list of stuff but its worth watching
 
steve said:
To you.
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We all know G-d Knows everything and that includes Knowing Adam and Eve would eat the fruit so it was as planned even if we are all know paying for that sin.

But one main point, sometimes its good to hear what others think.
 
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AbrahamSolomon said:
The first part what sounded right then he leaves the path.
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Even the first part was a story, albeit interesting, that he didn’t provide any proof of.

If you want to be recognized as a good teacher in this group, you will need to provide proofs of accuracy.
“Because the Rabbi (Bless his Holy name) said so!” isn’t going to fly around here.
 
steve said:
Even the first part was a story, albeit interesting, that he didn’t provide any proof of.

If you want to be recognized as a good teacher in this group, you will need to provide proofs of accuracy.
“Because the Rabbi (Bless his Holy name) said so!” isn’t going to fly around here.
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I agree, but his first point was two people who had not evil in them or idea of what death would be and that part is true.
The other stuff was crazy.
 
FollowingHim said:
So what? My point is that, for my son facing that temptation, whether I know the outcome or not, and whether God knows the outcome or not, makes zero difference to his experience in the moment.
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All we have is an experience, we feel gravity yet we don't see it.
Everything was meant to be from the beginning.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:
Everything was meant to be from the beginning.
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that is crazy talk.
God is willing that none should perish, yet they do.
God is not the author of evil. He never intended for sin to occur with man or demons or fallen angels or Satan.
God's plan was prepared in case sin did occur.
Christ's death was 1st that He would be faithful thru death and enter into His Glory,
2nd it would provide for the sin problem, should that become necessary. (as it did)
Without the sin problem Jesus was still destined for death as the means to prove his total allegiance to His father (as did Isaac) that He would then be exalted to His Fathers right hand.
God had a plan, It allowed for freewill to be free. God could modify His plan as needed to adjust to the actions of freewill. (it was not original plan to wander in the wilderness for 40yrs)
God is not incapable of dealing with and reacting to freewill.
God's Plan was in general predestined (with contingency's for interacting with freewill)
The individual is not predestined, they have freewill. neither Judas nor the coming antichrist was predestined to Hell. God just knows the heart of man and since sin has entered there will always be those who would fill the role.
A God who is acting in faith with our freewill is a God of LOVE.
A God Who predestined sin and hell and rape and murder would be sadistic.
 
Jim an Apostle said:
that is crazy talk.
God is willing that none should perish, yet they do.
God is not the author of evil. He never intended for sin to occur with man or demons or fallen angels or Satan.
God's plan was prepared in case sin did occur.
Christ's death was 1st that He would be faithful thru death and enter into His Glory,
2nd it would provide for the sin problem, should that become necessary. (as it did)
Without the sin problem Jesus was still destined for death as the means to prove his total allegiance to His father (as did Isaac) that He would then be exalted to His Fathers right hand.
God had a plan, It allowed for freewill to be free. God could modify His plan as needed to adjust to the actions of freewill. (it was not original plan to wander in the wilderness for 40yrs)
God is not incapable of dealing with and reacting to freewill.
God's Plan was in general predestined (with contingency's for interacting with freewill)
The individual is not predestined, they have freewill. neither Judas nor the coming antichrist was predestined to Hell. God just knows the heart of man and since sin has entered there will always be those who would fill the role.
A God who is acting in faith with our freewill is a God of LOVE.
A God Who predestined sin and hell and rape and murder would be sadistic.
Click to expand...

You paint a picture of a G-d who only knows so much and is editing His Plan based on others Free will.
But for G-d to be all Knowing He has to know your final destination and that is set in stone.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:
But for G-d to be all Knowing He has to know your final destination and that is set in stone.
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that would be true IF God knows EVERYTHING from all eternity past. Of course then one might ask at what point in eternity did God come to have this knowledge or was there ever a time that he did not. It is much simpler to believe that our freewill is actually free. names can be added to, or blotted out, of the book of life. and that God the Grandmaster of all is not intimidated by freewill neither does He fear the unknown about them, He can deal with us just as we have to deal with Him and each other, with faith being a componet of true love and relationship.
 
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