Wasn't thinking anything was private - of course it wouldn't be. But was responding to something that even I have no idea what it was now.
-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
What is valuable on this forum?
- Thread starter MemeFan
- Start date
The fact that you stated and that you seem to continue to state that Torah Keepers somehow do not fall into one of these 45,000+ Christian denominations is the issue. This has nothing to do with trying to convert anyone. You are basically saying Torah Keepers are someone you do not consider worthy to fellowship and have this unity which you speak of with as they are not Christian.
That may be you're assumption but not true. Those comments were sarcasm and full of frustration. Wear whatever label you wish.
Please don't "basically" twist words or meanings to play a victim card. No one is a victim in this conversation. The original post was concerning the many differences and direction the group is "not" going in.
I will gladly have fellowship with anyone. But im not afraid to point out every group in this forum has their own greater goods, morals and goals. Each group views BF as something different and that's my issue. Without clear directions or goals or unified beliefs it will go nowhere besides the direction of the loudest/most numerous group.
I would like to point out that the original post was made almost 11 months ago and discussion has done nothing but increased since then.
The retreat that just ended was 125 oddlings from various walks that greatly enjoyed each other’s company.
There were some in this group awhile back that demanded a more monolithic approach, they were encouraged to leave and start their own. Which they promptly did.
I’ll bet that you cannot find it.
My original post*
Encouraged to leave or heckled out by group effort and guilt tripping harassment?
Wow! so each group that wants their own thing should go start their own ministry instead building a unified Christian ministry here?...such an original thought.
Don’t be an idiot with your assumptions.
You aren’t even close to guessing what really happened.
Wow Ad hominem attacks. I have not named called anyone during this conversation.
Please inform me of what happened concerning your claim of monolithic approach and people being encouraged to leave.
Those comments may have been sarcastic but your initial post, where you called out Torah keepers as being a religion other than Christian based was by appearance sincere. Responding to it in that assumption of sincerity is not being a victim. Any Christian denomination called out in that way would respond in like manner to correct a misrepresentation of their core belief system. Shalom.
I didn’t call you one, I said don’t be one. There is a difference, if you weren’t aware.
I am not going to bother with a history lesson for you, I’m just telling you that it was attempted and didn’t work out well for the perpetrators. Don’t feel bad, not many know the details.
There is no statement you can make about Torah keepers that can no be contradicted by almost all of us.
Some of us reject the term “Christian”, and some of us (like me) embrace it. There is no possible way to approaching the New Testament that some Torah keeper doesn’t take. The “Jews who believe in Jesus” approach is mostly know and Messianic Judaism. It is a minority among Torah keepers who accept Biblical marriage but is probably a majority of the movement.
But if you need a higher degree of doctrinal conformity than the Apostle’s Creed then you’re the one who needs to examine your expectations. We’re focused on Biblical marriage and Jesus. Everything else is just interesting details in the background for our purposes.
Okay, that’s just funny!
Obviously most Hebrew Roots believers are Christians, technically speaking, and some use this term about themselves (as @HomesteadWife has done above). I am not insinuating anything else.
Having said that, it is very common for some Hebrew Roots believers to refuse to call themselves "Christians". I don't see why it would be wrong for @Con8 to notice this, when people take such great pains to point it out themselves. And of course this will cause distance between them and other Christians, that was their intent.
Surely if we are accepting of Hebrew Roots believers, we should take each of them as they describe themselves?
People who consider themselves "Hebrew Roots" exist on a very broad spectrum. The spectrum obviously begins with people who would not call themselves Hebrew Roots, only Christian (Catholic -> Anglican -> Protestant). Then you get the people who call themselves both Christian and Hebrew roots. These range from people who are basically regular Protestants who honour the feasts but are otherwise indistinguishable in their views from any other mainstream Protestant, to people who are a serious sect of Christianity with entirely different customs and beliefs to other denominations but still follow the same scriptures as everyone else and would be happy joining with other Christians in city-wide ministry work etc. Then you get those who do not call themselves Christian, which range from people who still follow Messiah but in some cases are beginning to doubt the authority of the writings of Paul, to on the extreme certain individuals who are in various stages of rejecting the identity of Messiah himself and are in danger of converting to Judaism - which some actually do. They are not a singular identity by any stretch of the imagination, every individual is unique, so just because someone calls themselves "Hebrew Roots" really doesn't tell you much about what they believe. And although there is much truth in the Hebrew Roots movement, there is also danger insomuch as some of them do end up rejecting Messiah (which we have seen in people we know). At the first extreme of this spectrum - Catholicism - lies idolatry. But at the other extreme lies apostasy. And the language someone uses is an indicator as to where people lie on this spectrum - once someone says "I'm not a Christian", then it is obvious others will be concerned that they're falling off the "apostasy" end of that spectrum.
So the worry that the forum is being dominated by people who are not Christians is certainly a misunderstanding - but it is a misunderstanding that exists solely because of Hebrew Roots believers themselves self-identifying as not-Christian. It's not @Con8's fault for noticing it and being concerned by it. Don't shoot the messenger. It could only be corrected by those who have given this impression in the first place.
Having said that, it is very common for some Hebrew Roots believers to refuse to call themselves "Christians". I don't see why it would be wrong for @Con8 to notice this, when people take such great pains to point it out themselves. And of course this will cause distance between them and other Christians, that was their intent.
Surely if we are accepting of Hebrew Roots believers, we should take each of them as they describe themselves?
People who consider themselves "Hebrew Roots" exist on a very broad spectrum. The spectrum obviously begins with people who would not call themselves Hebrew Roots, only Christian (Catholic -> Anglican -> Protestant). Then you get the people who call themselves both Christian and Hebrew roots. These range from people who are basically regular Protestants who honour the feasts but are otherwise indistinguishable in their views from any other mainstream Protestant, to people who are a serious sect of Christianity with entirely different customs and beliefs to other denominations but still follow the same scriptures as everyone else and would be happy joining with other Christians in city-wide ministry work etc. Then you get those who do not call themselves Christian, which range from people who still follow Messiah but in some cases are beginning to doubt the authority of the writings of Paul, to on the extreme certain individuals who are in various stages of rejecting the identity of Messiah himself and are in danger of converting to Judaism - which some actually do. They are not a singular identity by any stretch of the imagination, every individual is unique, so just because someone calls themselves "Hebrew Roots" really doesn't tell you much about what they believe. And although there is much truth in the Hebrew Roots movement, there is also danger insomuch as some of them do end up rejecting Messiah (which we have seen in people we know). At the first extreme of this spectrum - Catholicism - lies idolatry. But at the other extreme lies apostasy. And the language someone uses is an indicator as to where people lie on this spectrum - once someone says "I'm not a Christian", then it is obvious others will be concerned that they're falling off the "apostasy" end of that spectrum.
So the worry that the forum is being dominated by people who are not Christians is certainly a misunderstanding - but it is a misunderstanding that exists solely because of Hebrew Roots believers themselves self-identifying as not-Christian. It's not @Con8's fault for noticing it and being concerned by it. Don't shoot the messenger. It could only be corrected by those who have given this impression in the first place.
Last edited:
I'm fairly certain the mass majority of Christianity would not consider ANY of us Christians due to the forum's support of patriarchy and polygyny.
Any of us trying claim that title have an uphill battle ahead of us. Most of the other denomination descriptors barely mean anything worthwhile anymore.
Any of us trying claim that title have an uphill battle ahead of us. Most of the other denomination descriptors barely mean anything worthwhile anymore.
@Ruth Elizabeth
Apologies for my sarcastic & rude remark. I was caught up in the moment and did not read your post fully. Thank you for your insight and opinions. I reread all your comments and without the grumpy mindset. Again, my apologies
Those are fantastic! Again those were his words not mine!
I even asked for clarification and he said it was because I showed my ankles, and my wrists (I rarely wear short sleeved shirts because I don't find them comfortable,) and wore trousers, which as I may point out was part of the school's dress code.
Therefore, according to him I dressed like a slutty Amish.
Speaking of the school dress code. It was so bad it was funny. In order to make an attempt at being prestigious seeming you were required to wear black pants that were of any material but jean, and shirts that went to your collar bone. So everyone there wore T-shirts and yoga pants. I thought it was pajama day the first day I walked into that school... Honestly I never obeyed the code and just wore what I wanted because I knew that if I looked more classy than everyone else I could get away with it.
A common problem here on the forum is how easily we misunderstand what is being communicated because we can't hear the tone or inflection of voice. We miss the message because the words don't, in themselves, tell us, hey, that is sarcasm, or it is meant as a joke! This is where the meet-ups prove to be far superior in building meaningful relationships with one another. We can also get to know better the person behind the remarks here on the forum.
In the meantime we try to avoid thinking badly of one another through misinterpreting what is written here, out of love thinking good and not evil of the person writing the comment. Shalom brother.
Honestly there's not a problem. It's fine. I was also a little sharper than usual and vented a bit about things that have been bothering me in my first response which I kind of regret, but don't think it was bad enough to warrant editing...
I'm glad someone broached the subject though as I was a bit confused with some of the things I would read
Haha! True that but still sometimes inflections can still be off or someone can have a resting b* face as it's termed. I always thought I looked fine because my sister has a natural glare until I lived with roommates and some of them mistook my tired and drowning from school-work face and voice as I was cold and looking down on them.
Just my own uninformed and humble contribution here:
We're Christian and somewhat observant of Jewish and Hebrew (different things, I've learned) traditions.
We observe Passover. We acknowledge other Jewish Holy Days (also known as holidays).
We have a mezuza on our doorposts. We have a menorah. More than one.
We observe communion with matzoh. I don't exactly make kosher matzoh. I add a pinch of salt to the water so technically it's still flour and water. I am not worried about kosher flour but I prefer Bob's Red Mill whole wheat flour which happens to be kosher so that works out well. What's left of our fellowship likes the tradition with the matzoh.
I could go on but the point is we observe some of the old traditions to connect us to and to make sense of the modern traditions.
Old saying: Tradition is why we do things when we no longer remember why we do things.
I like knowing why we do things. Thus we observe and practice things that connect to what we do now.
We're Christian and somewhat observant of Jewish and Hebrew (different things, I've learned) traditions.
We observe Passover. We acknowledge other Jewish Holy Days (also known as holidays).
We have a mezuza on our doorposts. We have a menorah. More than one.
We observe communion with matzoh. I don't exactly make kosher matzoh. I add a pinch of salt to the water so technically it's still flour and water. I am not worried about kosher flour but I prefer Bob's Red Mill whole wheat flour which happens to be kosher so that works out well. What's left of our fellowship likes the tradition with the matzoh.
I could go on but the point is we observe some of the old traditions to connect us to and to make sense of the modern traditions.
Old saying: Tradition is why we do things when we no longer remember why we do things.
I like knowing why we do things. Thus we observe and practice things that connect to what we do now.
Last edited: