Why does the Husband Not Need Permission from his Wife?

[Maia]

True, but the structure needs to be solid.

I always tend to push back on these topics since In my experience in many every day life situations many man use the because I am a man statement and they seem to believe this gives them authority when often they have not proven themaelves, or have proven themselves to be failures. Happens quite often in school. Recently we assigned a group project, we a bunch of girls and one boy. Unfortunately this boy has poor grades. He tried to take control of the project and he literally used "I am a man" as an attempt validate himself. I told him that he is not a man he is a failure, and that I will not tolerate that he will sabotage our grades as well. I ended up having to literally push this clown out of the way. This happens quite often, and woman in the workplace also often have to deal with this. In fact I have placed 50% of teenage boys into the clown category.

 

[steve]

True, but the structure needs to be solid.

I always tend to push back on these topics since In my experience in many every day life situations many man use the because I am a man statement and they seem to believe this gives them authority when often they have not proven themaelves, or have proven themselves to be failures. Happens quite often in school. Recently we assigned a group project, we a bunch of girls and one boy. Unfortunately this boy has poor grades. He tried to take control of the project and he literally used "I am a man" as an attempt validate himself. I told him that he is not a man he is a failure, and that I will not tolerate that he will sabotage our grades as well. I ended up having to literally push this clown out of the way. This happens quite often, and woman in the workplace also often have to deal with this. In fact I have placed 50% of teenage boys into the clown category.

This is why a female must be extremely careful in her choice of a leader to follow. She doesn’t have the right to withdraw her support from her husband. Make the right choice and live with decision.
It’s why the father should have the right and the responsibility to make the final decision.

 

[frederick]

True, but the structure needs to be solid.

The Word of God is solid, in fact, The Rock. Don't build on sand, and that includes your future relationship. As @steve has said, ...

This is why a female must be extremely careful in her choice of a leader to follow. She doesn’t have the right to withdraw her support from her husband.

Keep clear in your mind God has an order of authority in the home and, whether you agree with a decision or not, the final say is the husband's. Shalom

 

[NBTX11]

I cannot claim to have been part of the military but that was told to me by someone I trust who considered it a huge problem in Afghanistan that many * Officers are not qualified to lead troops into combat. I guess the good ones keep up their proficiency.

Generals are not expected to maintain proficiency in any day to day job. Ever. Other higher ranking officers are not required to either. Their job is to lead large numbers of people. They certainly don’t have time to be running around learning every job and skill. All they get is an overview. The big picture. And from that they make decisions. They rely on enlisted and lower ranked officers to run the day to day minutiae. They have many organizations under their command and in many cases hundreds of different jobs being worked under their command. They set policy and are briefed daily on how things are going. I’ve sat in on many of those meetings.

Lower ranked officers such as lieutenants and maybe captains do take on more of a hands on leadership role as they build competency as officers, but even then, their job is to lead enlisted, not do their jobs.

 

[paterfamilias]

Easy to say in the abstract, in everyday life it leads to difficulties.

Not some sort of virtue signal but I feel fairly confident that I have a good handle on the how to of the dynamic and an easy path through a potential marital minefield which need not exist

First and foremost is thst everyone treats each other with respect and consideration at All times.
That you get on the same page eith respect to major issues from the very outset and you try to learn each others strengths and weaknesses as soon as possible. Quite a process but necessary.

By way of using your example of a wife being an MD and the husband not and we have a sick kid. Seems obvious that the wife will be more equipped to understand the terminology and potentially the background of a diagnosis.
There is nuance however. If she were a radiologist for example and the husband had significant experience with first aid and the child is hurt and tye parents need to deal with significant bleeding or broken bones, who is better suited? Who knows, honestly not that important. You work together to care for the child.
Have loads of doctors and other medical professionals in tye family but did not go that direction myself. Can tell many a story about being able to or actually correcting them on medical issues which were outside their specific area but they assumed their credentials raised the level of their judgment.

My point is that it should be about all cylinders firing together and Everyone working for each others success in a selfless fashion.
Certainly egos will occasionally get in the way, humans and whst not. Occasionally a lay person will have quite good judgment when compared to a theoretical expert. More import though is their cooperation when it is anything to do with the family and marriage.

My own goals are for hand in glove cooperation within a family.
The expectation being that I am ultimately in charge and that big decisions...especially if they turn out to be bad ones... fall on me. That it is my burden and my place to stand between my family and the world. If things go bad, it is not on them.
In exchange for that, I get the last word...big whoop, meaning I an not particularly nathered about that sort of thing as an ego boost. Seems small and pointless.

Ideal world is everyone is pulling together and while I Could give orders...blah. No thanks. Give me hand in glove working together any day over having to play boss and what not constantly.

To my mind, that is the formula for plyg-life .

 

[paterfamilias]

"True, but the structure needs to be solid.

I always tend to push back on these topics since In my experience in many every day life situations many man use the because I am a man statement and they seem to believe this gives them authority when often they have not proven themaelves, or have proven themselves to be failures."


Both my comments are going to be the same basic content but with different words so be patient as I think it is valid analysis.

Adult males... as to me a man is discreet from being an adult male, will have this sort of attitude entirely too frequently while not understanding that if one takes or is ceded power in a group or relationship that he by extension is the one who is responsible for the success or failure of the group. All on his head. If he is not up to it then he screwed up everyone. Doesn't seem like many are aware or have internalized this idea.

I would point to a lot of factors for why but it all boils down to poor or nonexistent fathers shaping boys into men.



"Happens quite often in school. Recently we assigned a group project, we a bunch of girls and one boy. Unfortunately this boy has poor grades. He tried to take control of the project and he literally used "I am a man" as an attempt validate himself. I told him that he is not a man he is a failure, and that I will not tolerate that he will sabotage our grades as well. I ended up having to literally push this clown out of the way. This happens quite often, and woman in the workplace also often have to deal with this. In fact I have placed 50% of teenage boys into the clown category."

Can't comment on teenage boys much beyond watching content online where they are giving romper room reject tier political opinions.

In the work environment I can comment a bit more. It is definitely not just men who are a problem but very much woman as well. Just in different ways.

Every corporate environment will have bottom feeders as well as blue ribbon badasses of both sexes. Just the way of the world.

I again tend to point at lack of good or not present at all fathers to explain many of the bottom feeders.

In re physically putting a modern teenage boy out physically...you are apt to be more an expert with respect to their attitudes and likely responses if you are at school with them but I would be cautious.

I get the impression that with the amount of poor emotional regulation, crap time preference, apparent prevalence of narcissism as well as low levels of testosterone (counterintuitively low T means worse temper and more prone to violent outbursts per studies) that a guy could go from just unpleasant to swinging on a woman in a blink of an eye.
Not saying it was bad idea, just urging caution.

 

[Earth_is-]

I agree, but the risk is still there. Plus they are things that some woman would except simply because they have no skills to support themselves.

But yes, both sides should really vet the other.

There’s blessings for obedience and curses for dis obedience. It’s part of putting your faith in Him and His ways.

Christian husbands make the mistake that being submissive to your wife shows love. It’s actually rebellion against the Most High. A man can only have one master.

What has men being submissive to their wives gotten them? Rebellious wives that resent them. That divorce them. It’s not a blessing - it’s a curse. Here’s just one high profile example of it:

Justin Bieber 'miserable' as wife Hailey blows millions of his fortune

Performing at a lavish pre-wedding party for the billionaire son of India's richest man earlier this month, Justin Bieber looked haggard, strung out and stressed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How do we fulfill the 1st Greatest Commandment our Master gave us? To love the Father in Heaven:

Joshua 22:5
But be very careful to obey all the commands and the instructions that Moses gave to you. Love the Lord your God, walk in all his ways, obey his commands, hold firmly to him, and serve him with all your heart and all your soul.”

To walk in his ways. He says that husband shall be the ruler of his household, and a man cannot have two masters. It’s the sin that got Adam kicked out - submitted to his wife instead of his Creator.

 

[paterfamilias]

Justin Bieber 'miserable' as wife Hailey blows millions of his fortune

Performing at a lavish pre-wedding party for the billionaire son of India's richest man earlier this month, Justin Bieber looked haggard, strung out and stressed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ack!
Justin sodding Bieber reference !?!
I know it is the weekend but are you after driving us to drink?

 

[FollowingHim2]

Have not even read it, but please take anything you read about celebrities with a grain of salt. Unless you hear it straight out of their mouth, it's probably not true and just made up for clickbait.

 

[Earth_is-]

A house divided can not stand. It's perfectly fine to have discussions. But there needs to be one in final authority, and leadership position. If that does not exist - it usually leads to trouble. We see plenty of trouble in today's marriages. Many are ending up in divorce, and many are initiated by the women. So there needs to be clear discussions before marriage - rules and expectations - to prevent mis-understandings after already becoming one flesh together.

 

[MemeFan]

Then in that case both sides will need a heart to heart to and come to some understanding.

If the woman uses the courts to push through her will (she would win), or the man tries to use his state as head of the family to push through his will, then there is a severe risk that the marriage will fail. I am not sure either side can forgive the other for what they perceive as having allowed a child to die/undertaken a risky procedure.

You will always someone more dominant in relationship. It should be man by nature and Lord's law.

Althought, judging by your comments, you have meet enough who demand leadership and contribute nothing.

 

[Maia]

This is why a female must be extremely careful in her choice of a leader to follow. She doesn’t have the right to withdraw her support from her husband. Make the right choice and live with decision.
It’s why the father should have the right and the responsibility to make the final decision.

Yes the choice needs to be very well though out.

Keep clear in your mind God has an order of authority in the home and, whether you agree with a decision or not, the final say is the husband's. Shalom

So if the husband tells me to jump off a cliff, I should jump off a cliff? If he wants Anal Sex should I just submit to a questionable act? Nah. God would demand competency from everyone, I doubt he would accept fools.

Also, and I know that this was not your intent, but statement such as those come across as condescending. Look at it from a woman's point of view. Here is your hat. It says 2nd class citizen on it. It It is for 2nd class citizens.

Christian husbands make the mistake that being submissive to your wife shows love. It’s actually rebellion against the Most High. A man can only have one master.

Same as above.

So there needs to be clear discussions before marriage - rules and expectations - to prevent mis-understandings after already becoming one flesh together.

Yes, I and a potential husband, will likely both have lists. There are certain areas where I would actually prefer that the man takes the lead. There are certain things that a non negotiable for me.

My worry concerns what is missed, and the actual interpretation.

Sex for example. I have never had sex, so I do not know what the dynamic is like. I do agree with the principle that if I marry a man that I consent to sex. I also understand that he will not ask me to re-affirm my consent every time he wants to enter me, it is just there. I guess I can accept that a husband calls me to bed like my parents call me to the dinner table. I can also accept that he can tell me what to do " take off your clothing, spread your legs etc." Outright rape would be intolerable, but where does one draw the line? To get back to my comparison with dinner, if my parents call me to the dinner table, and I do not appear in a reasonable amount of time, my father will gently, but firmly, grab me, and bring me to the table. Would it be acceptable that a husband - should I ignore a call for sex - grab me and force me to the bed room? Is it acceptable that he spank me? Where is the line drawn? Also anal sex, nope nada nothing doing.

You will always someone more dominant in relationship. It should be man by nature and Lord's law.

Althought, judging by your comments, you have meet enough who demand leadership and contribute nothing.

I agree that the average woman is less dominant, however there are certainly exceptions. The former German Chancellor Angela Merkel, or UKs Margaret Thatcher for example. These were Alpha-woman who absolutely annihilated men who opposed them. Usually for good reason. Golda Meir from Israel is likely another example though I do not know enough about her.

 

[frederick]

I doubt he would accept fools.

The advice doesn't change; be very careful who you marry. If you marry a fool, expect foolish outcomes.

 

[frederick]

but statement such as those come across as condescending.

No condescension intended. Cheers

 

[Maia]

The advice doesn't change; be very careful who you marry. If you marry a fool, expect foolish outcomes.

I guess in that regard it is easier being the 2nd wife (or I guess 3,4 etc) of a man since can can study the result. Or perhaps talk to the existing wife, with the danger that they are preconditioned.

 

[steve]

I guess in that regard it is easier being the 2nd wife (or I guess 3,4 etc) of a man since can can study the result. Or perhaps talk to the existing wife, with the danger that they are preconditioned.

It should be, but, for reasons, some will give a false report.

 

[MelissaE]

I think even the idea that a first wife would need to give permission or even to be consulted stems largely from our monogamous cultural construct. Biblically, with Leviarite marriage, there is an expectation that some men will take additional wives. There are polygamous families throughout the Old Testament. This may not have been a cultural expectation, but happened often enough that it was not an anomaly.

I'll give an example which was presented to me recently which has shifted my understanding.

I know a Fundamentalist Mormon woman (I know many) who is a fairly young first wife. She told me that in her particular tradition's culture, that it's expected that a man marry additional wives. In their culture (and biblically), she is accepting and prepared for this. She would like to be in on as to who is to be added in and would like to develop a relationship ahead of time, however she is aware that if her husband just shows up with another wife, that she is to submit to the decision and has hope that her husband will consider all of the family in making his choice. She has generations of example to trust in this.

I was shocked until I realized that the idea of adding wives based on the will of a first wife is based in a monogamy only feminist leaning culture which is the anthesis of living Biblically.

If a first wife truly understands her place Biblically, although she may not like it, the decision isn't hers to make and she can be a helpmeet to her husband instead of in rebellion.

That said, as a second wife, I would be very hesitant to join a family in this culture if the first wife was not completely on board.

 

[NBTX11]

So if the husband tells me to jump off a cliff, I should jump off a cliff? If he wants Anal Sex should I just submit to a questionable act? Nah. God would demand competency from everyone, I doubt he would accept fools.

As long as your husband is not telling you to sin (breaking one of God’s laws, violating an actual biblical command, not man’s made up laws), then you have to do it. Yes, you can refuse, but then you in turn are sinning and are not submitting.

Submission can be hard for a woman, but it’s absolutely required.

 

[Maia]

As long as your husband is not telling you to sin (breaking one of God’s laws, violating an actual biblical command, not man’s made up laws), then you have to do it. Yes, you can refuse, but then you in turn are sinning and are not submitting.

Submission can be hard for a woman, but it’s absolutely required.

It sounds like you are saying that marriage is only for the week? That seems like an odd stance to have.

 

[NBTX11]

It sounds like you are saying that marriage is only for the week? That seems like an odd stance to have.

What did I say that you disagree with, and why?