Why does the Husband Not Need Permission from his Wife?

[Edward]

The wife's "permission" is not required.

You are correct I don't need my wife's "permission", BUT in this Western feminist world, I value my wife's opinion, after all, she just might see something I missed.

Being a fundamentalist Mormon, I point to the Law of Sarah, which says a man does need his wife's permission.

I'm sorry but Abram did NOT go to Sarai and get permission to take Hagar, she did however...
Genesis 16:1-3 KJV Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. (2) And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. (3) And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

many man use the because I am a man

In my opinion, any man who whips out the "because I am a man" card is insecure about his manhood. He is not a man, he is just a male. I rule my house by example not by authority. Think of it this way, you are in the workplace and the boss is always whipping out the boss card and just being a pain in everyone's backside. After a while, nobody wants to go the extra mile for him. But a boss who leads, guides, and directs his employees and treats them like they matter, has employees who will go the extra mile for him. He rules by example not by authority.

 

[Raw Truth]

When the Creator gave instructions to the man on adding an additional wife - the one thing that is never mentioned is the man's current wife. She is not factored into the requirements (at all).

Matthew 6:10
May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

The Father in Heaven is the husband. His wife = the people of Israel. The Creator does not need permission from his wife when making decisions. In agreement, his wife says:

Psalm 115:3 NKJV
But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.

Imagine if salvation coming to the gentiles - the good news - was dependent on the Father in Heaven first receiving permission from his wife?

What if Israel said: “You don’t love us anymore.” “Are we not good enough for you?” “We will leave you.”

Would the gentiles have to continue to walk on this earth without knowing the Creator and without hope?

Likewise with the relationship between a husband and his wife. If the wife is against it - is she okay with sisters in Christ getting devoured physically and spiritually by the adversary? Plenty of Christian women end up in college instead of finding a husband (or none available) - so they follow the course set forth by the prince of this world - and today’s college is not for those weak in the faith.

On Earth as it is in Heaven:

Ephesians 5:22
22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. 24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.

My perspective-

The man is the head of the household according to Ephesians 5:23, which states, "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." This verse grants the husband the authority to decide whether or not to involve members of his household in his decisions. It is not a man's duty to consult with his wife for every decision. While a man may choose to seek his wife's input, he is not wrong if he ultimately makes decisions without her input, should he decide to do so.

Scripture instructs us that the man is the head of the household, but it also commands husbands to love their wives as they love themselves and to not be harsh with them. Ephesians 5:25 says, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her," and Colossians 3:19 warns, "Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them."

However, the Bible also warns of the consequences of tolerating sin, particularly in the case of a rebellious wife. Proverbs 21:9 states, "Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife," highlighting the disruption that a contentious spouse can bring. Moreover, Proverbs 22:10 advises, "Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended," indicating the importance of maintaining peace and righteousness in the household.

A wife threatening divorce, sabotage, or any other form of manipulation is not acting as one flesh with her husband, as described in Genesis 2:24, which says, "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh." Such behavior can be likened to a virus that needs to be addressed and removed to maintain the sanctity of marriage.

 

[Maia]

My perspective-
This verse grants the husband the authority to decide whether or not to involve members of his household in his decisions. It is not a man's duty to consult with his wife for every decision. While a man may choose to seek his wife's input, he is not wrong if he ultimately makes decisions without her input, should he decide to do so.

It might not be a man's duty, but it might be his obligation, especially if both husband and wife work, and pay for a house, and the title is in both names. It would also be in everyone self interest to ensure that checks and balances are in place.

However, the Bible also warns of the consequences of tolerating sin,

A wife threatening divorce, sabotage, or any other form of manipulation is not acting as one flesh with her husband, as described in Genesis 2:24, which says, "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh." Such behavior can be likened to a virus that needs to be addressed and removed to maintain the sanctity of marriage.

Well then if a husband turns to e.g. drinking or gambling it should be trivially true that the wife should not tolerate that sin, and instead eradicate it, like a virus.

 

[frederick]

Well then if a husband turns to e.g. drinking or gambling it should be trivially true that the wife should not tolerate that sin, and instead eradicate it, like a virus.

A husband and wife must resolve sin in their relationship according to the instruction in God's Word. Please, stop advocating for rebellion and sin. This ministry is Biblical Families and we promote and instruct the biblical principles for marriage - and that definitely includes resolving sin issues.

 

[Maia]

A husband and wife must resolve sin in their relationship according to the instruction in God's Word. Please, stop advocating for rebellion and sin. This ministry is Biblical Families and we promote and instruct the biblical principles for marriage - and that definitely includes resolving sin issues.

Why is that just to my address and not Raw truth? I was just turning his own words around.

 

[Raw Truth]

Why is that just to my address and not Raw truth? I was just turning his own words around.

It might not be a man's duty, but it might be his obligation, especially if both husband and wife work, and pay for a house, and the title is in both names. It would also be in everyone self interest to ensure that checks and balances are in place.

Well then if a husband turns to e.g. drinking or gambling it should be trivially true that the wife should not tolerate that sin, and instead eradicate it, like a virus.

According to Scripture, a wife is indeed commanded to submit to her husband in everything, as unto the Lord. Ephesians 5:22-24 states, “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” This submission is not conditional on the husband's behavior, as 1 Peter 3:1-2 teaches: Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; while they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.” This means that even if a husband is engaging in sinful behavior like drinking or gambling, a wife does not have grounds to usurp his authority. Instead, she is called to maintain a meek and quiet spirit, showing reverence to her husband, which can lead to his transformation without her speaking a word.

Furthermore, as the Messiah is one with the Father, a wife is to remain one with her husband, revering him as her head. If a wife fails to fulfill this role, Scripture provides guidance on how a husband should respond. The wisdom of Solomon from the Book of Sirach supports the idea that a man may need to distance himself from a disobedient wife. Sirach 25:26 states, “If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go.” This underscores the importance of maintaining the sanctity and order established by Yah within the marital relationship.

 

[FollowingHim]

Why is that just to my address and not Raw truth? I was just turning his own words around.

Because it is not biblically correct to turn his words around in the way that you did.

 

[Maia]

According to Scripture, a wife is indeed commanded to submit to her husband in everything, as unto the Lord. Ephesians 5:22-24 states, “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” This submission is not conditional on the husband's behavior, as 1 Peter 3:1-2 teaches: Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; while they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.” This means that even if a husband is engaging in sinful behavior like drinking or gambling, a wife does not have grounds to usurp his authority. Instead, she is called to maintain a meek and quiet spirit, showing reverence to her husband, which can lead to his transformation without her speaking a word.

Sorry to to focus on that suggests such a level of aggressive in the individual I suspect a tenacity for violence. Now, these two posts are the first two things I have read from you, so it is possible that I do not have the full picture and it is possible that you are gentle in real life, but as of right now I view you more as hostile.

Furthermore, as the Messiah is one with the Father, a wife is to remain one with her husband, revering him as her head. If a wife fails to fulfill this role, Scripture provides guidance on how a husband should respond. The wisdom of Solomon from the Book of Sirach supports the idea that a man may need to distance himself from a disobedient wife. Sirach 25:26 states, “If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go.” This underscores the importance of maintaining the sanctity and order established by Yah within the marital relationship.

Because it is not biblically correct to turn his words around in the way that you did.

There are literally 1000s of topics one could discuss regarding biblical marriages, yet the most common topic here is finding scripture on how a man can subjugate a woman. Ephesians is probably the most quotes here. That is an unhealthy balance that makes be suspicious.

Furthermore, it comes across as a beta move. One of the things I have noticed is that people who constantly feel the need to explain why they have power do not really have any, or are in verge of losing it. It is my experience that people who do have power and influence do not need to point to scripture, or to the statues of a companies incorporation, to maintain that. People naturally view them as leaders.

 

[FollowingHim]

There are literally 1000s of topics one could discuss regarding biblical marriages, yet the most common topic here is finding scripture on how a man can subjugate a woman. Ephesians is probably the most quotes here. That is an unhealthy balance that makes be suspicious.

Furthermore, it comes across as a beta move. One of the things I have noticed is that people who constantly feel the need to explain why they have power do not really have any, or are in verge of losing it. It is my experience that people who do have power and influence do not need to point to scripture, or to the statues of a companies incorporation, to maintain that. People naturally view them as leaders.

Yes, I've already pointed out that some people have a lack of balance, just a page back in this very conversation. My criticism at the time was directed to you, but it most certainly applies to others also.

Actually, the biggest problem is when people are focussed on what the other person is commanded to do rather than what they are commanded to do.

Men who focus on submission are in serious error, because it is WOMEN who are commanded to submit. Men don't need to be told to take charge, we naturally assume command, to a reasonably healthy level, provided this is not denied by others. So a man who is over-focussed on submission is at risk of becoming a totalitarian dictator - he is focussed on something that was not directed at him, because he did not need it to be directed at him. And he doesn't need to focus on this because it's a choice women need to make, and he cannot change their minds, he can only change himself.

Men are commanded to love their wives. This is what a man needs to reflect on, because it comes less naturally. And he needs to think "how can I do this", not make excuses for why he can't.

While women who focus on love, and are scared of submission, are in serious error, because it is MEN who are commanded to love. Women don't need to think about this much, it comes naturally to them. A woman who is not taught otherwise will naturally love her husband (seriously, it's true even in the extreme - women who are captured violently even end up falling in love with their captors, it's called Stockholm syndrome, that's not a good thing but it shows how deep this tendency is ingrained into the heart of a woman). Women who focus on "my man needs to love me and not force me to do things" have entirely the wrong focus, as they are focussing on what he needs to do, not what she needs to do. She cannot change him, she can only change herself.

Women are actually commanded to submit. This is what a woman needs to reflect on, because it comes less naturally and is difficult for her. As evidenced by the many posts by @Maia above, and other women previously, finding this difficult. But she needs to ponder "how can I accept and do this", not "how can I find excuses to avoid doing it".

Focus on what God says to you, not what God says to someone else.

 

[Earth_is-]

Genesis 16:6-9
Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her. 7 The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”

“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.

9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

---------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 3:16
To the woman he (Creator) said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

Men shouldn't fool around with any woman that divorced her own husband. If she does choose to leave her husband (women these days initiate most of the divorces) - she is to remain un-married, or go back to her husband (even if he already has a new wife - she can be the 2nd).

If her husband is struggling with sin - she is supposed to be his helper. Pray to the Father in Heaven. Try and do what you can to help him deal with his sin. But don't remove the authority the Most High gave him. If the person in authority is not treating you fairly - you can turn the other cheek - and take note how the "Angel of the LORD" promised to bless Hagar for her trouble. Also:

Matthew 5:10
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

So if you suffer for righteousness' sake (Creator's definition of righteous is in Isaiah 51:7) - there is a promise of reward.

I think a man that mis-treats his wife - is asking for trouble - because he also has a Master. Also, if his current wife (or wives) are being mis-treated - which good wife would want to join his household? So polygyny pushes men to exceed. To stay in shape. To provide. To be a leader. It's also a self-sacrifice, because it doesn't leave the man time for self-interests that so many men get involved in today (sports obsession, video games, etc).

If a husband is mis-treating his wife and the wife can't handle the mis-treatment; she can leave him, and remain un-married. Not to say there will be mis-treatment! Husbands are instructed to love their wives - as the Messiah loves his church.

 

[Raw Truth]

Sorry to to focus on that suggests such a level of aggressive in the individual I suspect a tenacity for violence. Now, these two posts are the first two things I have read from you, so it is possible that I do not have the full picture and it is possible that you are gentle in real life, but as of right now I view you more as hostile.




There are literally 1000s of topics one could discuss regarding biblical marriages, yet the most common topic here is finding scripture on how a man can subjugate a woman. Ephesians is probably the most quotes here. That is an unhealthy balance that makes be suspicious.

Furthermore, it comes across as a beta move. One of the things I have noticed is that people who constantly feel the need to explain why they have power do not really have any, or are in verge of losing it. It is my experience that people who do have power and influence do not need to point to scripture, or to the statues of a companies incorporation, to maintain that. People naturally view them as leaders.

Ephesians 5:25-33 (KJV) teaches, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it... Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." This statement encapsulates the balance within marriage: a man loves his wife as he loves himself, and the wife reverences her husband. To view my statements as promoting violence is to overlook the fact that I am a man who follows Yah, and as men, we are commanded by Yah to love our wives. Submission to a man doesn't imply violence for a woman; it means experiencing perfect love when both partners adhere to the commandments of The Most High.

 

[Maia]

Text

I do not have any issue with you. Your posts are more or less balanced.

As someone who has an administrative role on this forum, please consider the following. There are many men, who are not followers of God. They exploit scripture for their own personal agendas. This might be monetary, this might be political, or it might be predators using scripture in an attempt to gain essentially a submissive sex slave.

Ephesians 5:25-33 (KJV) teaches, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it... Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." This statement encapsulates the balance within marriage: a man loves his wife as he loves himself, and the wife reverences her husband. To view my statements as promoting violence is to overlook the fact that I am a man who follows Yah, and as men, we are commanded by Yah to love our wives. Submission to a man doesn't imply violence for a woman; it means experiencing perfect love when both partners adhere to the commandments of The Most High.

Yes, I read that. To be frank it comes across as a husband needs to love his wife "BUT." In fact, when Paul wrote Ephesians, I wonder if upon review he thought ahhhhh that comes across as a tad bit aggressive, so let me add in a few lines about a husbands love to his wife.

Like I said I have never met you, the only thing I know about you are the last few post, and that did not impress me.

Advice: If you are courting woman, do not ever mention those verses.

 

[frederick]

Advice: If you are courting woman, do not ever mention those verses.

For a Christian man, those verses are foundational to a relationship with a godly woman. Not only do we mention them, we teach them diligently just as we teach all the other relevant verses. In fact, I start in Genesis and read and teach the whole Bible to any potential women. If they don't like it, it's an indication they don't love the God who has revealed Himself in His Word. Such a woman won't be a godly wife.

 

[Maia]

For a Christian man, those verses are foundational to a relationship with a godly woman. Not only do we mention them, we teach them diligently just as we teach all the other relevant verses. In fact, I start in Genesis and read and teach the whole Bible to any potential women. If they don't like it, it's an indication they don't love the God who has revealed Himself in His Word. Such a woman won't be a godly wife.

How many wives did the purported author of Ephesians have?

I hear a lot of talk about woman in Ephesians. Where was the talk of his own wife in that cypher? Cause all I hear is talk about woman from a man who was celibate, First of the Catholics, last of his lineage. Shaka, when the walls fell.

It just occurred to me it all fits in beautifully. Paul. The Catholic Church. Whos Priests are celibate, and declared to be authorities on marriage and raising children. They do know there pomp and circumstance however, I have to give them that. There is no better place to spend Christmas Eve then in a Roman Catholic Cathedral with Adeste Fideles thundering of the walls, the candle lights of the Christmas tree reflecting of the likely kilograms of gold spread throughout the nave.

 

[FollowingHim]

As someone who has an administrative role on this forum, please consider the following. There are many men, who are not followers of God. They exploit scripture for their own personal agendas. This might be monetary, this might be political, or it might be predators using scripture in an attempt to gain essentially a submissive sex slave.

I am probably more aware of that than you are. And one of the great things about this ministry is that we get to speak to such men and actually help them to become better men, which then benefits every woman who comes into contact with them. This ministry exists to help both men and women become better husbands and wives, to achieve lasting and happy marriages.

 

[frederick]

I hear a lot of talk about woman in Ephesians.

I pray that perhaps one day, you might have the wisdom to listen to that talk as it is from the Word of God.

There is no better place to spend Christmas Eve then in a Roman Catholic Cathedral with Adeste Fideles thundering of the walls, the candle lights of the Christmas tree reflecting of the likely kilograms of gold spread throughout the nave.

For those who, like yourself, prefer religion and pomp over Truth, I am not surprised you reject what is written in God's Word about men and women in marriage relationships. There are only two possibilities: Truth or error. The more you reject the Truth the further into error you must go. Religion and pomp cannot save a sinner from eternal condemnation, but faith in Jesus Christ does save. Jesus Christ said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

 

[Maia]

I pray that perhaps one day, you might have the wisdom to listen to that talk as it is from the Word of God.

For those who, like yourself, prefer religion and pomp over Truth, I am not surprised you reject what is written in God's Word about men and women in marriage relationships. There are only two possibilities: Truth or error. The more you reject the Truth the further into error you must go. Religion and pomp cannot save a sinner from eternal condemnation, but faith in Jesus Christ does save. Jesus Christ said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

There is a guy here who made the choice to throw out the entire New Testament, I presume because it did not fit with his world view. I feel like you are holding me to a different standard.

Interestingly religious forums have a great deal of overlap with Star Trek forums, with regard to the discussion of what is canon.

Regarding "The truth" and the Word of God. Well, ideally God would communicate directly to individuals. Some people claim God does talk to them directly. Maybe he does, maybe he does not. There is not any way to prove it either way. I find that there were a few moments in my life where I had complete clarity where potentially perhaps I was guided. My family and myself I feel are entirely blessed, so my interpretation is that God is cool with me.

What makes me speciousness is when people claim to speak for God. The most annoying are the Jehovas Witnesses. "We speak for God" No you don't.

Regarding scripture; the problem is that God himself did not pick up a fountain pen, everything is via agents. One cannot rule out the possibility that certain people committed the horrible crime of misinterpreting, or outright falsifying what God intended. Ephesians is especially problematic. I deliberately used the terminology "purported author" since the authorship is not entirely clear. It has the prose of Paul, but there is not proof that he wrote it. If it cannot even be determinierend who the author is, how can anyone claim that it is "The Word of God" with no debate?

Now, as a man it is not in your interest to question certain doctrine. The doctrine gives you all of the trump cards. It is a theological reason for man to quench his thirst for lust and power, and greed. And no man is going to question a document that is the foundation of his power. Don't deny that. Don't even try.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

There is a guy here who made the choice to throw out the entire New Testament, I presume because it did not fit with his world view. I feel like you are holding me to a different standard.

Interestingly religious forums have a great deal of overlap with Star Trek forums, with regard to the discussion of what is canon.

Regarding "The truth" and the Word of God. Well, ideally God would communicate directly to individuals. Some people claim God does talk to them directly. Maybe he does, maybe he does not. There is not any way to prove it either way. I find that there were a few moments in my life where I had complete clarity where potentially perhaps I was guided. My family and myself I feel are entirely blessed, so my interpretation is that God is cool with me.

What makes me speciousness is when people claim to speak for God. The most annoying are the Jehovas Witnesses. "We speak for God" No you don't.

Regarding scripture; the problem is that God himself did not pick up a fountain pen, everything is via agents. One cannot rule out the possibility that certain people committed the horrible crime of misinterpreting, or outright falsifying what God intended. Ephesians is especially problematic. I deliberately used the terminology "purported author" since the authorship is not entirely clear. It has the prose of Paul, but there is not proof that he wrote it. If it cannot even be determinierend who the author is, how can anyone claim that it is "The Word of God" with no debate?

Now, as a man it is not in your interest to question certain doctrine. The doctrine gives you all of the trump cards. It is a theological reason for man to quench his thirst for lust and power, and greed. And no man is going to question a document that is the foundation of his power. Don't deny that. Don't even try.

So back to the original topic of discussion: If your husband chooses to take an additional wife, do you believe it is your right to tell him "NO!"? I personally believe it is one thing for a man who marries his wife with the understanding of "forsaking all others", to go back on his promise, much like it is wrong for the wife who promises to "love, honor, and obey" him to go back on her promise. OTOH, if the wife marries her husband with the understanding of biblical marriage, she CANNOT go back on that. I think most of the men here agree that they should not pursue a second wifem until they obtain permission from their first wife IF she married him under the understanding of the unbiblical restriction of monogamy. I think you have somewhat derailed this thread though in the direction of patriarchy vs egalitarianism, and that topic has been thoroughly discussed and debated elsewhere.

I do not disagree.

I personally find I get along well with them, ok obviously I know nothing of how one would be as a husband. Also, I am aware that I might have difficulties submitting to a man in areas where even I would agree I need to. I am afraid that an inexperienced boy in my age might just get absolutely frustrated if I do not obey in bed, and the end result might be ugly. An older man might handle me better, spank me if necessary, but nothing that would injure me. I suppose there are also downsides such as difference in interests, but that could also be the case with someone my age. In the end we can both have our own projects.

Oooo! Spanking!!! Man! Dadgum! Not sure what to say there!

 

[Maia]

So back to the original topic of discussion: If your husband chooses to take an additional wife, do you believe it is your right to tell him "NO!"? I personally believe it is one thing for a man who marries his wife with the understanding of "forsaking all others", to go back on his promise, much like it is wrong for the wife who promises to "love, honor, and obey" him to go back on her promise. OTOH, if the wife marries her husband with the understanding of biblical marriage, she CANNOT go back on that. I think most of the men here agree that they should not pursue a second wifem until they obtain permission from their first wife IF she married him under the understanding of the unbiblical restriction of monogamy. I think you have somewhat derailed this thread though in the direction of patriarchy vs egalitarianism, and that topic has been thoroughly discussed and debated elsewhere.

Oooo! Spanking!!! Man! Dadgum! Not sure what to say there!

I do not think I have entirely crystallized my own understanding with regards to this.

I will say that if a man is interested in adding me as a 2nd but the 1st disapproves of me, then that would be an absolute no go for me.

If the situation is reversed; I suppose if the man made it clear as part of the marriage discussion/negotiations that he will make the decision and that I will have no say in that, and I agree to that, then I will be beholden to that. I would expect a loving husband ™ to read me, and if he knows that I consider the other girl to unacceptable then to at least take that into consideration. It is possible that in that case it might be better that I and the other are in different houses, even if I do not like that constellation in general.

I might compare it to parents and children. Parents do not ask their children if they are cools with more siblings, even though it affects the other children greatly.

 

[julieb]

There is a guy here who made the choice to throw out the entire New Testament, I presume because it did not fit with his world view. I feel like you are holding me to a different standard.

Interestingly religious forums have a great deal of overlap with Star Trek forums, with regard to the discussion of what is canon.

Regarding "The truth" and the Word of God. Well, ideally God would communicate directly to individuals. Some people claim God does talk to them directly. Maybe he does, maybe he does not. There is not any way to prove it either way. I find that there were a few moments in my life where I had complete clarity where potentially perhaps I was guided. My family and myself I feel are entirely blessed, so my interpretation is that God is cool with me.

What makes me speciousness is when people claim to speak for God. The most annoying are the Jehovas Witnesses. "We speak for God" No you don't.

Regarding scripture; the problem is that God himself did not pick up a fountain pen, everything is via agents. One cannot rule out the possibility that certain people committed the horrible crime of misinterpreting, or outright falsifying what God intended. Ephesians is especially problematic. I deliberately used the terminology "purported author" since the authorship is not entirely clear. It has the prose of Paul, but there is not proof that he wrote it. If it cannot even be determinierend who the author is, how can anyone claim that it is "The Word of God" with no debate?

Now, as a man it is not in your interest to question certain doctrine. The doctrine gives you all of the trump cards. It is a theological reason for man to quench his thirst for lust and power, and greed. And no man is going to question a document that is the foundation of his power. Don't deny that. Don't even try.

Why are you on this Forum @Maia? You said you wanted to learn about "these topics" which I am assuming is Biblical Marriage which may include plural wives. I think you might have been surprised that most people on this Forum also believe in Patriarchy as a foundation for marriage. If you don't want to have a marriage like that then there are many other Forums and websites that will support your views on partnership marriage. We are just NOT one of them. So again, why are you here? You said you were 17 years old on the Ladies Chat last Tuesday, I am finding it very hard to believe that that is a true statement from your postings. So, why are you here? You don't seem to be in a very learning mood, you are more in the mood to share your opinion and then criticize other's opinions. Just to let you know, that if you truly are a woman, most men here would not consider your attitude very attractive. I am sure you could find many other "Christian" sites where it would be, but not here. Again, why are you here?