TO be clear, in case there's any confusion. I was 100% not accusing @FollowingHim of perpetrating any kind of Lashon hara against me or anyone else in this thread.
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Why Jews don't say the sacred name of G-d & Maybe nobody should
- Thread starter IshChayil
- Start date
What?! I saw this when you first posted it. I saw it had changed a few minutes later. Later in the day I saw it was different again. Anyone watching the thread would have seen that, and it is not unethical in any way to point out what any reader would see. I suppose I could try and figure out exactly how long you'd spent editing it, if I wanted to, and share that. But it would be serve no purpose, therefore I have not even considered doing so (I am not expressing an opinion on whether this hypothetical sharing of pointless data would be ethical). This is a ridiculous accusation @IshChayil.
Edit: Thankyou for confirming you were not accusing me of lashon hara.
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Well I don't know what could be the case there. Usually I'll post, then craft it a bit IMMEDIATELY after before anyone responds. Add colors, bold, whatever, see what it looks like. I'm a visual learner; when I study the bible I have all kinds of color pens out and highlighters it helps me think through stuff. I never edit a post after a single person has responded to it. If I do, I put ***** edit ***** underneath it to draw attention to the edit, kind of like what you did (correctly). Anyway, ridiculous or not, different personalities. Anyway to lighten the mood:
Don't EDIT SHAME ME BRO! Say no to edit-shaming
It's only shameful if you're ashamed!Don't EDIT SHAME ME BRO! Say no to edit-shaming
I have the same bad habit. I call it a bad habit because it catches me out. Compare this post of mine from just this morning to the same post quoted in @Joleneakamama's reply, that she made while I quickly made some immediate minor tweaks before anyone had a chance to read it and respond... but was too slow... I'm trying to break the habit and make sure I do all my edits before clicking "post" but it's so hard...
Maybe we can start Editors Anonymous and mutually support each other to break our addiction.
I did the same thing, so you aren't the only one.
Thanks AbassadorforChrist, you really added to the discussion about the sacred name and why Jews don't say it. Did anybody else notice edits before anyone had replied to the post? Apparently these are likeable comments in this thread now.I did the same thing, so you aren't the only one.
Fascinating stuff!
The ability to edit a post often allows us editors to soften statements for the purpose of peace in the community; in meatspace I make sure that I'm smiling when having a Torah disagreement with a brother, online this isn't possible and tones can seem sharper than intended. Thank G-d for the <edit> ability before others respond to a post. It comes from a good place in one's heart to want to put forth the best and it reduces the chillul Hashem out there by giving the spirit a chance to convict us when we're too harsh. I cherish the edit function; when used rightly it's a kiddush Hashem (thread relevant
So back to what we were discussing before all this edit stuff derailed the thread...
The Masorah. This is the tradition passed down by Jews that every single major bible translation trusts. By this tradition (imagine spooky music as I said that) of the Jews (imagine Ben Shapiro's voice how he says that phrase spookily) maintained what the words actually are in the "Old Testament" (70%+ of the bible). This tradition is essential in knowing how to read the Hebrew bible; especially the k'tiv (how it's written) qere (how it's read). Newbies in Biblical Hebrew often err in thinking that to read one only need to sound out the letters and the traditional (que spooky music) vowels which were added to the text by our rabbis. This, however, is not enough to fully read the text. The qere notation system preserved by the Masorah (fancy way to say the Hebrew text as maintained by Jewish tradition) tells us how the words should be read aloud as the text is intended to be read aloud (faith comes through hearing).
This includes places where the sacred name, denoted in English letters as Y-H and W-H is written. The tradition informs us how our ancestors who could not obtain a bible, had memorized the text. So when they come across the tetragrammaton being spoken by say Avraham (to whom Hashem "had not made my name Y-H ... W-H known to him"), the scribes who had those texts memorized but dared not alter them, indicate how to read that "word" in those cases. It's marked with the vowels for "Adonai"; King James correctly renders LORD or it's marked with the vowels for "Elohiym" GOD. The same tradition (spooky music) that we trust with ALL OF THE VOWELS IN THE ENTIRE HEBREW BIBLE, so that those words can be translated into English, Russian, German, whatever, that same tradition that tells us how to say every single word, also tells us how to say this word (written, Y-H .... W-H as "Adonai" or "Elohiym.")
So the bible might have written originally: tsgdrncstrsprsrvdthtxtfrs
Then comes the Masorah (our tradition) and informs us using only Jewish tradition: it's good our ancestors preserved the text for us
adding clarity while not harming the sacred text. This same thing happens when the divine name is not supposed to be read as the divine letters are supposed to be read "Adonai" or "Elohiym." So imagine YH WH The same Masorah that we trust to tell us how to say every single other word in the "Old Testament" also tells us how to say this word, i.e.: Vowels from Adonai yield YaHoWaiH teaching us this word is pronounced "Adonai" here despite being written by a scribe as the Tetragrammaton; in other places Vowels from Elohiym yield YeHoWiyH teaching us this word is pronounced "Elohiym" here.
**** note: this post has received zero edits ****
The Masorah. This is the tradition passed down by Jews that every single major bible translation trusts. By this tradition (imagine spooky music as I said that) of the Jews (imagine Ben Shapiro's voice how he says that phrase spookily) maintained what the words actually are in the "Old Testament" (70%+ of the bible). This tradition is essential in knowing how to read the Hebrew bible; especially the k'tiv (how it's written) qere (how it's read). Newbies in Biblical Hebrew often err in thinking that to read one only need to sound out the letters and the traditional (que spooky music) vowels which were added to the text by our rabbis. This, however, is not enough to fully read the text. The qere notation system preserved by the Masorah (fancy way to say the Hebrew text as maintained by Jewish tradition) tells us how the words should be read aloud as the text is intended to be read aloud (faith comes through hearing).
This includes places where the sacred name, denoted in English letters as Y-H and W-H is written. The tradition informs us how our ancestors who could not obtain a bible, had memorized the text. So when they come across the tetragrammaton being spoken by say Avraham (to whom Hashem "had not made my name Y-H ... W-H known to him"), the scribes who had those texts memorized but dared not alter them, indicate how to read that "word" in those cases. It's marked with the vowels for "Adonai"; King James correctly renders LORD or it's marked with the vowels for "Elohiym" GOD. The same tradition (spooky music) that we trust with ALL OF THE VOWELS IN THE ENTIRE HEBREW BIBLE, so that those words can be translated into English, Russian, German, whatever, that same tradition that tells us how to say every single word, also tells us how to say this word (written, Y-H .... W-H as "Adonai" or "Elohiym.")
So the bible might have written originally: tsgdrncstrsprsrvdthtxtfrs
Then comes the Masorah (our tradition) and informs us using only Jewish tradition: it's good our ancestors preserved the text for us
adding clarity while not harming the sacred text. This same thing happens when the divine name is not supposed to be read as the divine letters are supposed to be read "Adonai" or "Elohiym." So imagine YH WH The same Masorah that we trust to tell us how to say every single other word in the "Old Testament" also tells us how to say this word, i.e.: Vowels from Adonai yield YaHoWaiH teaching us this word is pronounced "Adonai" here despite being written by a scribe as the Tetragrammaton; in other places Vowels from Elohiym yield YeHoWiyH teaching us this word is pronounced "Elohiym" here.
**** note: this post has received zero edits ****
And therein lies the rub. The trust factor of every single major Bible translation today is completely dependent on what someone told them was the most accurate text.
Check out the original introduction to the King James. Check out the issues Jerome had when attempting to translate the Old Testament. Jerome became convinced by the Hebrew scribes of his day that the Masoretic text was of course the most accurate because a Hebrew text was more apt to be accurate to the language and original thought than a Greek translation of the same text. They presented the Masoretic as the Original Hebrew. It was not. And so, Jerome became the first of Christianity to get suckered into a text that all the previous Christians rejected. For good cause.
Obviously, its not all bad. But its definitely been tampered with, by the Masoretics. Along with a whole laundry list of other actions that are deliberately and decidedly Anti Christ.
Justin Martyr quotes removed passages from Ezra, Jeremiah, Psalms and Deuteronomy. (Discourse with Trypho, LXXI-LXXIII) From the statements, then, which Esdras made in reference to the law of the passover, they have taken away the following: 'And Esdras said to the people, This passover is our Saviour and our refuge. And if you have understood, and your heart has taken it in, that we shall humble Him on a standard, and thereafter hope in Him, then this place shall not be forsaken for ever, says the God of hosts. But if you will not believe Him, and will not listen to His declaration, you shall be a laughing-stock to the nations.' And from the sayings of Jeremiah they have cut out the following: 'I[was] like a lamb that is brought to the slaughter: they devised a device against me, saying, Come, let us lay on wood on His bread, and let us blot Him out from the land of the living; and His name shall no more be remembered.' And since this passage from the sayings of Jeremiah is still written in some copies [of the Scriptures] in the synagogues of the Jews(for it is only a short time since they were cut out), and since from these words it is demonstrated that the Jews deliberated about the Christ Himself, to crucify and put Him to death, He Himself is both declared to be led as a sheep to the slaughter, as was predicted by Isaiah, and is here represented as a harmless lamb; but being in a difficulty about them, they give themselves over to blasphemy. And again, from the sayings of the same Jeremiah these have been cut out: 'The Lord God remembered His dead people of Israel who lay in the graves; and He descended to preach to them His own salvation.'
Justin also mentions men commissioned and ordained to spread the message of anti Christ throughout the world. They are also the ones who changed Isaiah 7:14 from virgin to young woman.
And there’s lots more!
But sure, we can trust ‘em not to remove a name that should be spoken from the Holy Scriptures because they would never do something like that.
Matthew 5:18 could have just as easily read, “one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all is fulfilled, [or till the Masoretics get hold of it]. Its very prophetic IMO.
PS. I’m sure you’re gonna bitch about me posting on “your” thread. Save it. Its a public thread and you set it up that way. If you didn’t want someone in particular posting on this topic you should have PM’ed everyone you wanted participating. I could care less about having a conversation with you, but this premise is still as pointless and unproven as the day you started it. The only difference now is that you’ve thoroughly succeeded in proving that you trust people that aren’t trustworthy for “doctrine”, and are now trying to shove it down everyone else’s throat.
*****edited to copy a quote that @Keith Martin was kind enough to post in another thread****
A lie doesn’t become truth, wrong doesn’t become right, and evil doesn’t become good, just because it’s accepted by a majority."
— Booker T. Washington
You're very welcome! I am happy you think so!