Agreed. Those terms can be both loaded and generic.
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What draws you to this lifestyle?
- Thread starter indigenouspolygynist
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Could you expound on this? I'm not really familiar with the polygamy community. What do you take issue with?
The good thing about those issues though is that they're completely predictable, so I think there will be ways to navigate this. I think plan to create another thread on this issue. I think there will be ways to navigate this.
This is the biggest concern I have. Regardless of whether we're right or wrong on this issue, there will always be a social stigma. I'd like to try to change that though. I think many people will change their minds when they get to know us. But getting them to give you a chance is probably very difficult if they know about your lifestyle from the beginning.
Who are the naysayers? I'd like to hear their perspectives before we commit to this.
Whether we're right or not, I don't think this is a salvation issue, if I'm understanding you correctly.
You will also find some who would disagree with this too, for various reasons.
If taken too far, selflessness could paralyze a husband and father into not wanting to upset the peace in his home and thereby not making big or bold decisions (polygyny) to mollify a hesitant wife.
Selflessness isn’t slavery. It must be coupled with a willingness to lead in strength.
Howdy friend. Hope you’re doing well as you read this. Thank you for your questions. I will attempt to answer them in order, as I’m on a mobile device and splitting out multiple quotes is a pain in the pants.
1. We have some amount of LDS/FLDS, Judaizers, Torah Keepers and otherwise distressingly unorthodox folks, some which use liberty as a license for lasciviousness and broadly reinterpret texts like Romans 1 in order to erect their homestead harems, far from any sort of scrutiny or accountability from the saints, despite the fact that they will one day judge angels and even the world (1 Corinthians 6). A lot of attempts at polygyny result in divorce and neglect that go unreported. People here are big on the law: “nothing says I can’t,” “only God can judge me,” etc. That’s the vibe in a few corners of this community and it’s very disappointing. Lots of emphasis on the law. Not a lot on expedience.
There’s also just not a lot of folks who speak soberly about the fact that trying to be obedient to a desire to live a polygynous lifestyle is in direct conflict with commands to not forsake the assembling of saints together, obeying those that have the rule over you, etc. A lot of wresting and wrangling of Scripture, which makes sense because a lot of the folks have a low view of it, treating it as just another tool in the tool shed rather than something God-breathed.
It goes without saying that there’s also much more emphasis placed on normative principles (“e.g. nothing negatively forbids X”) rather than regulative principles (“e.g. nothing positively commands X”).
I don’t find the one positive command (ref. Levirate marriage) with regard to polygyny to be persuasive at all. Ain’t none of these homestead harems are wringing their hands over whether or not to marry their brother’s widow to raise up seed.
You don’t see polygynous Gentile gypsies in the New Testament, full stop. Even the main page of the website here which refers to “building the church through building the family” is, at best, covenantal nonsense. Saul could have a kid like Jonathan while David could have a kid like Absalom.
2. There are ways to navigate some of the issues as they come up, but the juice is almost never going to be worth the squeeze, especially if it means forsaking the assembling of saints together.
3. One of the best ways to change the stigma in a skeptical world would be to advocate for the biblical permissibility of polygyny without participating in polygyny yourself. In so doing it helps convey a standpoint that is decidedly more impartial. You might compare it with Paul making tents.
4. I don’t keep a list of naysayers but they’re out there. There’s like twenty years of posts in this place, so you can find a few if you dig around. There’s a lot of rebellious dudes who just want to find a biblical reason to wet their willy’s. There’s also some ladies that have been open and honest enough about what that costs couples and even large families.
5. Where I landed on this is that while you’re probably right about polygyny itself not being a salvation issue, I can’t guarantee it, no one else can either, and being wrong could cost you eternity. There’s not enough clear eyed dialogue about the very, very real risks of being wrong here.
Unrepentant adulterers and fornicators won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. The Patriarchs did inherit the Kingdom of God and so the thinking goes that every New Covenant Gentile is “in the clear.”
But not so fast, a woman never had property rights over her husband’s body in the OT, nor could it ever be said that adultery was committed against a woman in the OT.
There is a super vocal and historic majority of orthodox Christianity that see a change in priesthood (from Levitical to Melchizedekian) as a change in law per the Book of Hebrews et al. There’s also got to be something new about the New Covenant. It can’t just be that Gentiles can now worship the God of Israel, because the convert and stranger were always welcome. So you’ve got to really work out with fear and trembling before the Lord what that looks like.
The early church was debating about it whether someone could even remarry after death. A lot of the ante-Nicene quotes you can find in the patristics that are citing “second marriage” are referring to subsequent polygyny/bigamy (you also see terms like digamy and trigramy being used, but they’re always referring to subsequent or sequential polygyny, not simultaneous polygyny).
Honest people freely admit this. But many here either don’t take the time to diligently search these things out before they post and say “Look; see, they were doing it back then! Buck the Greco-Roman system!” They’re content to just score what they think is an easy win and in a vacuum chamber not a lot of reasoned responses are expected if they’re critical of polygyny. This is a decidedly pro-polygyny place after all.
Anyway would really, really, really suck to be wrong about this issue, and given the propensity for the majority of people to be self-deceived per Matthew 7, and the desperately wicked and deceitful nature of the heart per Jeremiah 17:9, it will prove disastrous for many people to privately interpret Holy Scripture in their pursuit of polygyny. Lust of the heart is huge problem, Christ pointed a spotlight on it, and so I do think that people who have lifelong porn addictions for which they remain unrepentant will hear a sentence of “Porneia” and be forbidden entrance into the Kingdom of God, despite the fact that the word meant sexual immorality and not looking at mere images per se.
People like to squint at what the word meant back then as if that settles it. But Christ is King, NOT context. He preserved it for us for today. He inspired it in a verbal and plenary and inerrant way.
Just like how plowing with an ox and a donkey didn’t have anything to do with carnal pastoral compensation in its original context. That doesn’t matter, ultimately. There’s a spiritual principle there that is enduring and timeless and load bearing and absolutely has applications for us today.
So is polygyny lawful? Maybe.
Is it expedient? Almost never.
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Thanks for the response. I read all of it, but it's a lot to respond to. Have you practiced polygamy yourself? What brought you to the forum?
I respect your opinion. It sounds like you've done a lot of soul searching on this issue. And I agree completely that there seems to be a lot of dysfunction going on in some of the threads here. I've definitely come across posts where it sounds like the man is trying to force a woman to consent to his affairs. It's disgusting. No woman should ever be subjected to this lifestyle without true, enthusiastic consent.
My wife and I are both interested in this from the standpoint of building a family. We're both from broken, dysfunctional families. We're longing for support and to have another adult in our family. Kids are great, but without adult family members, we've always felt like we're missing something. There's a whole in our family that's shaped like F2.
If all goes well, F1 and F2 are going to meet for the first time in about a week. I can't wait to see them together. I expect it will be a slow start. My wife is shy and I think F2 will feel awkward at first because she likes me and she's probably confused about the entire situation. But I think they'll become best friends eventually.
By the way, have you seen this video? I think this family is a great example of what a family can look like when there's unity. This is what I want for my family.
Poly Family Interviewed
biblicalfamilies.org
It’s important to note that the Holy Scriptures must necessarily contain everything we need for life and godliness and that the egalitarian thinking around the first wife needing to be on board just isn’t found in God’s Word. I agree that from a practical feasibility perspective it makes sense, but it just doesn’t enjoy the benefit of having a biblical basis.
Thankfully there are folks here that will be honest with you to the degree that they will confess (along with me) that bringing another person into your personal situation with the aim of fixing a problem is a bad idea. A really bad idea. I have to give an account for my counsel here; so there you have it.
It’s also worth mentioning that Sarah and Hagar had their own tents. Pro-polygyny folks differ on if and how they distinguish between multiple parallel dyadic unions compared to a triadic union where you have multiple women getting along, sleeping in the same beds (as opposed to maintaining separate undefiled marital beds), doing things they really shouldn’t together, etc.
As for your first question about what my current situation is, as I said, the Lord hand delivered a woman who would’ve been ideal, but over the course of the past year it has proven to be little more than “Hevel.”
May you find every blessing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I actually inadvertently made friends with a few people from this community. From what I've seen so far they are good people with a good community.By the way, have you seen this video? I think this family is a great example of what a family can look like when there's unity. This is what I want for my family.
Poly Family Interviewed
Distressingly? That’s a pretty choice word.
Brother, you’re gonna see the distress for yourself. On the Last Day there’s a line of goats and sheep and it’s in all probability first come first serve. You’re gonna see my business, I’m gonna see your business and we’re gonna see their business.
Get ready. Because most are self-deceived per Matthew 7.
Do you know how that family in the video is doing now? It's been a long time. I hope they're still happy together.
I don't, the families there are super down to earth though. Renewed my hope in plural marriage some actually.
I'll send you a message about that and a few other things when the option opens for you.
I got it, might want to delete it because of bots now lol
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I don't have the option, but if a mod sees this, go ahead and delete it.
Regular failure of polygyny is nothing strange in current society. "Regular marriage" fails often too, so more complex forms having failure is expected.
From divorce laws bribing women to exit plus higher expectations of marrige plus more complex mating in general, none do anything do anything to help marriage.
And that homestead harems. Who build palace in mide of nowhere to stuff them with women? Did you see eunuchs guarding such harems?
Accepting polygyny means people here have bigger "respect of Bible" than regular Christians. Many are willing to suffer socially for sake of Lord. So you words are pure lie.
Besides who wants to go to assembly where you will be treated as pariah and filthy person? Same situation in polyamory community. Polyfidelious people are mostly looners precisely because rest of polyamory shames them, considers them evil
Wait, you mean that unless there is positive example of something in Bible, it's forbidden?
So, did you work for your father-in-law for seven years? Or send a servant to find you a wife? That's your positive examples. So it's a sin/mistake, according to you, do to otherwise.
Marriage of ex-virgin after seduction does command polygyny if man is already married.
And where is Bible it's written that all Hebrew's customs must be followed to letter?
They don't exist because Roman law forbid it. Hebrews had to get exception written in law to practice polygyny.
This is example how your Bible headfirst makes you totally incorrect. Maybe something doesn't happens in Bible because of non-biblical reasons?
I have another way to advocate for polygyny. Threesomes and female bisexuality are fantastic, man. Why would gentiles be ones having most sexual fun?
Lol, sex is great reason to find another wife.
So, man shouldn't want to have sex with second wife to be morally pure?
There were debating second subsequent marriage because church got infested with gnostics who considered all physical pleasures evil.
Off course, they tried to ban it for anyone in order to morally purify everyone.
So you can't conclude that polygyny is lawful because didn't explicity tell you it's lawful?
So polygyny can only be practiced by few special annointed men?
I thought biggest issue with polygyny is lack of women?
There you have it, folks. Straight from a man who just the other day was asking me about Paul contradicting Jesus.
We aren’t here for sexual fun, we’re here to present our bodies as living sacrifices.
Be wary of what wells you draw your water from. Be washed with the water of the Word.
Every polygynous marriage in Holy Scripture: Jacob, David, Solomon, etc., was a bundle of separate pair bonds (also called dyadic unions or dyads): one husband, multiple independent wife-relationships. There's no narrative or legal precedent for those wives being sexually involved with each other or for simultaneous group encounters.
Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27 don't carve out an exception for "but what if it's within a polygynous household." The prohibition attaches to the act regardless of the marital structure around it.
Reading your desires eisegetically back onto the text is going to prove to be disastrous for you. If you don’t repent of it, I plead with you, it will be your eternal undoing.
Him and everyone else who practices their faith like him will be judged. Everyone else who teaches these things alongside him, all I can say is be not many masters. A greater judgment and a greater condemnation awaits all those who, not content to be self-deceived in quietness, sought to teach others to pursue their lusts with such greediness.
I love you all enough to tell you the truth. What’s being proposed here is lasciviousness, sexual immorality and in all probability will thrust you outside of the Kingdom of God.
When the Holy One whose eyes are like a flame of fire rest upon you and people’s participation on this very forum thread are called into question, don’t say none of you were warned.
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Jesus said Abraham and Jacob would be in the kingdom and both those men had more than one wife simultaneously. Therefore how can having more than one wife be sexually immoral or adulterous? Personally, I like the idea of being in the kingdom in the company of such men as Abraham and Jacob, and a lot of others of whom the world was not worthy.
Many of us like the idea of being up there, friend. It appeals to our pride. Just ask Boanerges, who asked to be seated on his right and left.
Please understand that if you will not be content to serve Him here you will not serve Him there.
If you will not suffer with Him now, you will not be consoled by Him later.
As for your question, have you not read?
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” - Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
As surely as a man can get drunk off of his own wine, and be a glutton with his own food, a man can be sexually immoral with even one wife, nevermind more than one.
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Please highlight the word 'marriage' coz I don't see it in the text.