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3 Questions From Real Life | Marriage Divorce Remarriage

Without rehashing what has been at length in other forums on this site, the key understanding is that:

"divorce" is NOT EQUAL to "putting away" (shalach, in the Hebrew).

Many of the English renderings of the 'words in red' that SEEM to prohibit 'remarriage after divorce' are disgustingly twisted distortions of what He and His original Word actually say.

Often, what is overlooked is the far better rendering of Matthew 5:32 (and this can be established in great detail, and has been) is that, 'He who PUTS AWAY [sends out, abandons] his wife for any reason, unless she is already an adulteress, causes her to commit adultery, and he who marries a woman who has only been 'put away' [and not actually 'divorced,' without that written witness] thus commits adultery.'

The emphasized words are utterly consistent with His Word in His Torah (especially Deuteronomy 24:1-3) and the fact that He never changed them. And since that was the point He was MAKING in the "Sermon on the Mount," and He had JUST FINISHED SAY EXACTLY THAT, it's easy to see, once the contradictions of the things men CLAIM are "law" but aren't are exposed for the falsehoods they are.

There remains another question to be asked.


PS> As to the above-linked "Divorce and Remarriage" article, I will suggest the 80/20 Rule applies. There are some parts that are very well-done, and in general it's a cut above most things you will see on the subject, with the caveat that there are other parts that are, well, a bit 'irritating' (as regulars here will understand. :eek: )

Where I think an important point is made has to do with what might be called "abandonment" by a faithless husband.

But I do note that Yahuah gave His "sefer keretutah" to whoring Israel (Isaiah 50:1) ANYWAY, even though she had COMMITTED adulteries (plural) and was arguably deserving of death.


SO, the remaining question has to do with any subsequent husband.

It may well be that a non-virgin woman (ie, previously married) who does NOT have a 'get' or 'certificate of divorce' may be able to remarry, because she was abandoned (and I find the author's treatment of that insightful.)

But I will contend that any now ex-husband's written witness (that second witness) that she is able to remarry certainly "makes the path straight."

 
She had no authority to divorce him. He could still take her back.
True. The question is does he have a duty to?

If he does, does violation of that duty constitute a reason for a legitimate divorce thereby freeing her from her previous marriage?

I can see both sides of this argument. I may be giving the ex-husband too much of a benefit of the doubt in why he would refuse to take back a repentant wife.
 
She had no authority to divorce him. He could still take her back.
And he SHOULD. (Thus, Yahushua's observation about the "hard-hearted." That applies to, at least, the vast majority of 'divorce'.) But as we all know, "should" do something doesn't mean men WILL.

The question is does he have a duty to?

If he does, does violation of that duty constitute a reason for a legitimate divorce thereby freeing her from her previous marriage?
The best way to answer that question is to ASK him for a 'sefer keretutah'.

If he is NOT willing to take her back, and do his duty as a covering, then perhaps she should consider the "Matthew 18 thing". (Even the rabbis tend to acknowledge a similar situation in the agunah or a wife wrongly put away - even though I disagree with many of their claims on that score.)

When it comes to even the potential for adultery, "let everything be confirmed in the mouth of two or three witnesses."
 
What is the basis for him giving her a certificate of divorce assuming there has been no sexual immorality on her part after departing?
At this point he doesn't NEED any basis, other than honesty, integrity, or compassion. Note again, that Yah gave Whoring Israel a sefer keretutah EVEN THOUGH she did NOT deserve one! (In fact, as He noted more than once, she deserved death.)


PS> I note again a VERY disturbing, but all too common, misunderstanding of the so-called "exception clause" in Matthew 5:32. This, too, has been done at length (I have a number of audio teachings up, and there is more than one thread here on BF where the issue has been addressed.)

But this thread may help to clarify.

When Yahushua says "except for adultery" in that verse, in contrast to the 'standard twisting' - He is NOT saying that the ONLY REASON to put her away and give her a 'get' is ADULTERY. He is saying that IF a man EVER 'puts away' his wife, he SHOULD give her a sefer keretutah; otherwise HE CAUSES HER to commit adultery!!!

OTOH: If she was actually ALREADY guilty of adultery, he is justified in putting her away for cause, and that - think about it - she's arguably just lucky to be alive! He can't very well make her an adulteress if she already IS. (Again, this is the situation in Jeremiah 3, Ezekiel 23, Isaiah 50, and, arguably still is.)
 
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It is a well established fact that we make mistakes(sin too) in every area of life. She has already mentioned her repentance and change of heart but as was said "That ship has sailed." With the divorce papers in hand, she is free because the ex has no desire to take her back. Life lessons are harsh at times but alas one is not hopelessly lost or irredeemable. The forgiveness was paid for by our Savior and we are humbled. Leave the door open until a new head is chosen for(with) you. (lots of words for $.02)
 
(EXCUSE ME IF THESE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED ELSEWHERE)

I have found this situation to be an ever increasing normality...

1. If a man introduces a second wife after entering into a traditional state monogamous marriage that is instituted under the law of bigamy, are the mans actions righteous or not?

2. Is the woman justified to feel hurt and leave the marriage after coming under a mans covenant of a monogamous marriage?

3. If afterwards the woman realizes that polygyny is biblical and righteous but for whatever reason being reconciled to her previous husband is not possible, can she remarry another?

Don't see the first one as valid from my point of view.
Bigamy is generally about a second wife and family and each hidden from the other. That sounds like deception and cowardice. So don't see it as remotely potentially righteous.

Don't understand the question based on how it is phrased but I assume it means that if you surprise your wife with another wife, is she justified in leaving.
Hard to say. All marriages are different. I would say at minimum a swift kick in the pill bag would be merited.


Last one...sounds more theological in nature rather than moral. I will stick to moral and let the others tackle theological. If it is a moral question though then mileage will vary with individuals.
 
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Omg that last part is brutal. Do I really can't remarry?
Numbers 30 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.

You must reconcile with your husband or stay single.
 
Numbers 30 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.

You must reconcile with your husband or stay single.
If a man or woman was a pagan and makes a vow to an unknown God - then that doesn’t count, I would assume. So it also depends if she was a Christian at the time she made the vow, and what the vow in question said. What if her husband broke the vows first - does that mean her vows are enforced as well, since they’ve been broken by the other party?
 
That’s a bad vow that should have never been made, but it’s also a common one that men make before they knew the truth about polygyny. If he intends to marry another wife, he should educate his first wife and then ask her to release him from this vow. My opinion.
The traditional marriage vows also includes things like “I will love you above all others.” But when kids come into the picture - a lot of times one or both spouses may end up loving their children more than their spouse. So if the wife admits to no longer loving her spouse above all others - then would forsake all others (polygamy) be still forbidden for the husband? What do you guys think?
 
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You can remarry.
How would you come to terms with this commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
But for those who are married, I have a command that comes not from me, but from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband. 11 But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else be reconciled to him.

In this case - since it was the wife that left her husband, then she must continue to try and reconcile with him or stay single.
 
If a man or woman was a pagan and makes a vow to an unknown God - then that doesn’t count, I would assume. So it also depends if she was a Christian at the time she made the vow, and what the vow in question said. What if her husband broke the vows first - does that mean her vows are enforced as well, since they’ve been broken by the other party?

The problem with this logic is that two atheists can get married and divorce or two Muslims can get married and divorce or any Christian can use it as a loophole to say that they for backflip and can divorce and remarry with no problem.

The reality is there is no loophole because God recognizes marriage vows regardless of a person's belief
 
How would you come to terms with this commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
But for those who are married, I have a command that comes not from me, but from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband. 11 But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else be reconciled to him.

In this case - since it was the wife that left her husband, then she must continue to try and reconcile with him or stay single.
I think that Paul was stating a good general principle. If a woman feels that she absolutely must separate, don’t jump ship. Just separate for the time being and try to reconcile.
But I will maintain that there is an allowance for worst case scenarios, example ‘hardness of heart’. Of course, everyone thinks that their situation qualifies. This would be where the elders would enter the picture.
 
The problem with this logic is that two atheists can get married and divorce or two Muslims can get married and divorce or any Christian can use it as a loophole to say that they for backflip and can divorce and remarry with no problem.

The reality is there is no loophole because God recognizes marriage vows regardless of a person's belief
God’s law is indeed universal. For example, John the Baptist called out king Herod for taking his brother’s wife, but his brother was still alive. Herod was a gentile.

My train of thought were other things - human traditions - added into our modern marriage vows. For example, the husband agreeing to “forsake all others.” But then wants to bring a 2nd wife into the family.
 
God’s law is indeed universal. For example, John the Baptist called out king Herod for taking his brother’s wife, but his brother was still alive. Herod was a gentile.

My train of thought were other things - human traditions - added into our modern marriage vows. For example, the husband agreeing to “forsake all others.” But then wants to bring a 2nd wife into the family.
I've never been a fan of these modern-day vows and you bring up a good point. If someone had in their marriage vows that they in fact could leave if things got worse or if someone got sick I don't believe God would recognize that. So would God recognize a "forsake all others" vow from a man? Given the fact that just about everyone on this website agrees in patriarchy as the only biblical way to have a family and the man is unabashedly the head of the household and he can have many wives just as Jesus can have many servants I would say that vow is invalid.
 
How would you come to terms with this commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
But for those who are married, I have a command that comes not from me, but from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband. 11 But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else be reconciled to him.

In this case - since it was the wife that left her husband, then she must continue to try and reconcile with him or stay single.
I actually gave a more detailed response to the real life situation elsewhere on this forum that these questions are partially based on and being discussed in this thread, and have come across very similar situations outside of this platform.

The issue is the details and nuances in every situation that affects the application of scripture.

For example in this situation if the woman had remarried, according to Gino Jennings doctrine, the woman must divorce her current husband and go back to her first husband, which the majority of people who have read the Bible would know is an abomination, (but is more in agreement with directives for Mohammedans).

My point is, there are many doctrines taught that are incorrect or even abominable in churches or ministries that we have all been a part of, do we apply the same grace to others to move forward in the same love and forgiveness that we received and now walk in, when "the holy spirit" leads and guides us into truth? or, are we the type in scripture to condemn others while we walk forgiven?

I am going to make a statement that at least some may see as inflammatory.

In my walk with "Jesus" I have noticed a stark difference with what is required to be a Christian and what is required to be a disciple of Christ in practical living terms.

This affects HOW we view situations and circumstances that our brothers and sisters find themselves in.

It is so very easy to throw a scripture that we know and say that is it.

In the situation presented in this thread, was the man correct in breaking his original vow? What would he need to do?

There are many situations where believers contravene scriptural commands including 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 and many others unknowingly, because of their understanding, at that point in time.

In this partially hypothetical situation they would have both contravened many commandments to end up in this type of situation, but, thank YAH, his apostle also states clearly.

1 John 1:5-10 KJV — This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: BUT if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

As with any situation, restoration is the goal, if both parties have NOT blasphemed "the holy ghost" then forgiveness and restoration in whatever way YAH who saves sees fitting, is indeed possible, requiring those who are spiritual to deal carefully with the situation and people in it.

Left turn coming:
Just to add, it is noticeable that we are in a time where woman are being targeted and focused for relationships and families being a dire mess, HOWEVER, I come from a different perspective.

WE HAVE A MAN PROBLEM NOT A WOMAN PROBLEM

There are so many scriptures warning men about all types of wicked women that there really is no excuse for any man to get involved with a wicked woman. So, the situation with women is nothing new.

Wisdom states that a wicked woman is GIVEN as a reward to a wicked MAN

Perilous times are here now because of MEN not women. (2 Timothy 3)

There is too much of "the woman that you gave me" talk (Gen 3) from men, believers and non believers.

It is a distraction, a false flag that apparently makes a lot of much viewed online content where men can say "yeeeaaaahhhh, see, modern women are no good I knew it"

Again, the state of women is nothing new, just read scripture, or historical documents.

In the beginning, woman was given not simply to a man, but, to a man who was the image and glory of YAH God.

Our goal as men is to be the image and glory of YAH God so that the women YAH gifts us with can be (according to how we, as men, love (Ephesians 5)) the woman YAH created them to be.

Mirror, signal, maneuver, right turn, back on thread now.
 
I've never been a fan of these modern-day vows and you bring up a good point. If someone had in their marriage vows that they in fact could leave if things got worse or if someone got sick I don't believe God would recognize that. So would God recognize a "forsake all others" vow from a man? Given the fact that just about everyone on this website agrees in patriarchy as the only biblical way to have a family and the man is unabashedly the head of the household and he can have many wives just as Jesus can have many servants I would say that vow is invalid.
I just want to clarify my own comment here and say that the marriage itself is still valid but the part of the Vow that is "forsake all others" is invalid. As it is not possible to have a valid vow against God's laws or hierarchy. Therefore, any man who took such a vow in marriage is still in a valid marriage. However, that part of the marriage vow is invalid as it goes against God's created hierarchy.
 
I just want to clarify my own comment here and say that the marriage itself is still valid but the part of the Vow that is "forsake all others" is invalid. As it is not possible to have a valid vow against God's laws or hierarchy. Therefore, any man who took such a vow in marriage is still in a valid marriage. However, that part of the marriage vow is invalid as it goes against God's created hierarchy.
Sorry, but wrong. His Word shows, over and over again, that even BAD vows are binding (see Yakov and what he told Laban that cost him Rachel, and Joshua with the Gibeonites, etc, etc.) Numbers 30:3.

Even a "deal with the devil," can be binding. See Faustus.
 
Sorry, but wrong. His Word shows, over and over again, that even BAD vows are binding (see Yakov and what he told Laban that cost him Rachel, and Joshua with the Gibeonites, etc, etc.) Numbers 30:3.

Even a "deal with the devil," can be binding. See Faustus.
Which is why Jesus taught us very clearly not to make vows at all. A direct instruction from Him that the church blatantly violates by requiring marriage vows. We should not make vows. Because vows are a serious business, and stand even if they were wrong to make.
I just want to clarify my own comment here and say that the marriage itself is still valid but the part of the Vow that is "forsake all others" is invalid. As it is not possible to have a valid vow against God's laws or hierarchy. Therefore, any man who took such a vow in marriage is still in a valid marriage. However, that part of the marriage vow is invalid as it goes against God's created hierarchy.
Also remember that polygamy is not mandatory. Nor is marriage at all.

It is therefore not unscriptural to make a vow of chastity, to vow to be devoted solely to God and not to a spouse. Both scripture and history show that such a life can be a very good thing, and a great blessing to the Kingdom. Because chastity is permissible, such a vow is not sinful (although the vow itself is inadvisable, it would be better to just live a life of chastity without the vow).

In the same way, monogamy is entirely permissible - in fact, statistically, most marriages will be monogamous. So a promise to your wife to be monogamous is not sinful. If it is done as a vow to God, that vow stands - you had every right to make such a promise, you were only promising to do something that is not only permissible, but entirely lawful and good. Again, you'd have been better not to vow it, but that doesn't exempt you from following through. We must be men of our words.

Such a vow does NOT go against God's laws or hierarchy. It is simply a decision, as the husband (the head of the family), that this family will be a monogamous one. The husband is the exact person in that hierarchy who has the authority to decide how many wives he will have, and he made a completely legitimate decision. So it is completely in keeping with the hierarchy.
 
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