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800 Years in Exile

The point is the location of the land of Magog has always been Asia/Russia territory. The movement of continents over “millions” of years is a un-proven scientific theory. They love to add billions and millions to everything - in order to make their un-proven scientific theories like evolution seem more believable.
I think there is a good likelihood that Magog is, or was North of Israel and might possibly be Russia. Still, I think you are assuming it, not proving it.

By the way, I hold to a young Earth view of creation, believing that everything is only a few thousand years old.

I just thought it strange that you had a map of Pangeae as I have only seen it in reference to millions of years ago.
 
That's nice. I understand you believe we should not use the words "God or Lord" when discussing the I AM.

Your answer however doesn't begin to answer my question. The apostle Paul wrote the book of Romans in the Greek language. The book of Romans was inspired (breathed out) by the Holy Spirit. The Maker of Heaven and Earth is fluent in both Hebrew and Greek (as well as every other tongue of men and angels). The Greek text does not say Elohim. It says Theo. Using the word Elohim is a mistranslation.

Unless you say otherwise, I will assume your Bible quotes are your own opinionated paraphrases of the actual text. I won't take them very seriously unless I varify them using a reputable translation. 👍
Theos is a translation for Elohim. We don’t know what Paul would had used for Greek to English - but I doubt he would had used “god” due to its very close resemblance to a pagan god of fortune and money.
 
I think there is a good likelihood that Magog is, or was North of Israel and might possibly be Russia. Still, I think you are assuming it, not proving it.

By the way, I hold to a young Earth view of creation, believing that everything is only a few thousand years old.

I just thought it strange that you had a map of Pangeae as I have only seen it in reference to millions of years ago.
Yes - I agree with the earth being around 8000 years old. I believe we are in the 8th day - with war and the 2nd exodus happening in our lifetimes - then his remnant will be back in the land given to his servant Jacob. There will be an everlasting peace covenant:

Ezekiel 37:25-28
25They will live in the land I gave my servant Jacob, the land where their ancestors lived. They and their children and their grandchildren after them will live there forever, generation after generation. And my servant David will be their prince forever. 26And I will make a covenant of peace with them, an everlasting covenant. I will give them their land and increase their numbers, and I will put my Temple among them forever. 27I will make my home among them. I will be their Elohim, and they will be my people. 28And when my Temple is among them forever, the nations will know that I am YAHUAH, who makes Israel holy.”
 
Theos is a translation for Elohim. We don’t know what Paul would had used for Greek to English - but I doubt he would had used “god” due to its very close resemblance to a pagan god of fortune and money.
The only manuscript evidence available for the word you and @Bartato are discussing from Romans 2:13 is Θεῷ; a masculine dative singular noun, from θεός. There is no manuscript evidenced to support your claim that the word is translated from Elohim; none, nada, zilch!

We have good evidence for the word Paul used but none to back your claims. Shalom
 
The only manuscript evidence available for the word you and @Bartato are discussing from Romans 2:13 is Θεῷ; a masculine dative singular noun, from θεός. There is no manuscript evidenced to support your claim that the word is translated from Elohim; none, nada, zilch!

We have good evidence for the word Paul used but none to back your claims. Shalom
Shalom brother - but you’re not correct in this instance. Paul did indeed translate “Elohim” into “Theos.”

Go to Psalm 109:26 with the LXX. The LXX is valid because we know the apostles used the LXX to quote scripture.

The Greek word “theos” is used for the Hebrew word for “Elohim.”


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So - indeed - “Elohim” is a valid replacement whenever you see “Theos” in the Greek New Testament. It’s much better to use “Elohim” versus “gad (god)” which pronounced in English is a Babylonian god of fortune and money.

Proverbs 9:9
Instruct the wise, and they will be even wiser. Teach the righteous, and they will learn even more.

We’ve all inherited lies from our fathers - as Jeremiah said. We all need to help bring truth, correction, and instruction. That way we can make corrections and walk righteously; and avoid the highway to destruction that is broad and many enter through.
 
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The only manuscript evidence available for the word you and @Bartato are discussing from Romans 2:13 is Θεῷ; a masculine dative singular noun, from θεός. There is no manuscript evidenced to support your claim that the word is translated from Elohim; none, nada, zilch!

We have good evidence for the word Paul used but none to back your claims. Shalom
Another deception - the Greek word for church - is also used over and over again in the LXX Old Testament. The “church” of YAH wasn’t a new thing. It simply means a congregation of YAH’s people. The LXX Old Testament even has this scripture:

The heavens praise Elohim’s wonders and faithfulness “in the ekklesia of the saints” (Psalm 89:5 [Lxx 88:6]).

But in the English Old Testament - they translate ekklesia to “congregation.” But in the New Testament the English translators chose to translate Ekklesia to “church.” But not in the Old Testament. This is a massive deception not taught in mainstream Christianity. Example - how can any Christian church claim they are the first - when there was an Ekklesia during Moses’ time? One of the many deceptions you can add to the list. As Paul says - let all men be liars and Elohim be true. And it says in His Word:

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what YAHUHA says: “Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans, who rely on human strength and turn their hearts away from YAHUHA.
 
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@Earth_is-, I don't disagree with you that Theos is the correct Greek translation of Elohim, and vice versa. And I understand, though disagree with, your objection to the English word God. What I do not understand is:

What objection do you have to the word "Theos"? If you object to using the English translation of "Theos" and saying "God" because it sounds like "Gad", why would you not just say "Theos"? Why translate it into Hebrew? I presume you must have a specific objection to that Greek word also.

Or maybe you don't have a specific objection to that Greek word, but have a specific objection to Greek as a language and believe Hebrew is more holy and should be used by preference instead of either Greek or English? If so, (1) why, and (2) how far do you take this, and how long will it be until you're entirely speaking Hebrew?
 
@Earth_is-, I don't disagree with you that Theos is the correct Greek translation of Elohim, and vice versa. And I understand, though disagree with, your objection to the English word God. What I do not understand is:

What objection do you have to the word "Theos"? If you object to using the English translation of "Theos" and saying "God" because it sounds like "Gad", why would you not just say "Theos"? Why translate it into Hebrew? I presume you must have a specific objection to that Greek word also.

Or maybe you don't have a specific objection to that Greek word, but have a specific objection to Greek as a language and believe Hebrew is more holy and should be used by preference instead of either Greek or English? If so, (1) why, and (2) how far do you take this, and how long will it be until you're entirely speaking Hebrew?
I don’t have any problem with the Greek word - “Theos.”

“My Elohim” simply sounds better to me than saying “My Theos.” So I chose to translate it back to the original Hebrew.

For “lord” in Romans 10:9 I would just say “Master” instead, which is what it really means in the Greek:

In the papyri, 2962 (kýrios) likewise denotes an owner (master) exercising full rights.

Our Messiah is our Master. We’re his servants. We want our Master to tell us - “Well done - my good and faithful servant.” He’s the head of the Ekklesia. I like the Greek word - Ekklesia. So I use Ekklesia instead of church - church really means circus in the old english; and the way “church” has been used in Christianity is corporate/building/entertainment. Not what I see in the original Greek word - Ekklesia.
 
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But if Master = Lord and Lord = Baal then Master = Baal and would be just as objectionable as Lord. Struggling to follow your logic here.
 
But if Master = Lord and Lord = Baal then Master = Baal and would be just as objectionable as Lord. Struggling to follow your logic here.
The name of the Creator isn’t “lord” however. It’s simply a title - and in King James’ time - a “lord” was beneath a king. So King James replaced the Creator’s name for a “title” that is beneath a king. Not once - but close to 7,000 times. So why would I use the word lord for the Son? He’s Master. The Husband. Elohim. Creator. King of Kings. But “lord” is below a king in England hierarchy. So I personally try not to use that title anymore for the Son.
 

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You're confusing two very different words:

"LORD" all caps, which the KJV uses as a substitute for YHWH following the Jewish tradition of substituting Adonai ("Lord") for the Name. This is certainly a debatable practice as you have outlined, but it was not invented by King James, his translators were simply copying a far more ancient tradition.

And "Lord" which is used as a translation of Adonai (Hebrew) or Kyrios (Greek), both of which actually mean "Lord / Master" - and for which this is a completely accurate and correct translation.

You are objecting to the second because you object to the first, not recognising the vast difference between the two.
 
Shalom brother - but you’re not correct in this instance. Paul did indeed translate “Elohim” into “Theos.”

Go to Psalm 109:26 with the LXX. The LXX is valid because we know the apostles used the LXX to quote scripture.

The Greek word “theos” is used for the Hebrew word for “Elohim.”


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So - indeed - “Elohim” is a valid replacement whenever you see “Theos” in the Greek New Testament. It’s much better to use “Elohim” versus “gad (god)” which pronounced in English is a Babylonian god of fortune and money.

Proverbs 9:9
Instruct the wise, and they will be even wiser. Teach the righteous, and they will learn even more.

We’ve all inherited lies from our fathers - as Jeremiah said. We all need to help bring truth, correction, and instruction. That way we can make corrections and walk righteously; and avoid the highway to destruction that is broad and many enter through.
Please excuse my ignorance but I thought you were discussing Romans 2:13, not Psalm 109:26. The apostle penned the breathed out Word of God in Romans 2:13. The copies of the text available indicate the word he used was Θεῷ. I don't see Elohim in any Greek manuscripts. Cheers
 
You're confusing two very different words:

"LORD" all caps, which the KJV uses as a substitute for YHWH following the Jewish tradition of substituting Adonai ("Lord") for the Name. This is certainly a debatable practice as you have outlined, but it was not invented by King James, his translators were simply copying a far more ancient tradition.

And "Lord" which is used as a translation of Adonai (Hebrew) or Kyrios (Greek), both of which actually mean "Lord / Master" - and for which this is a completely accurate and correct translation.

You are objecting to the second because you object to the first, not recognising the vast difference between the two.
Correct.

(And I addressed that confusion and deception at some length as just a TINY part of the midrash in https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/why-his-name-his-real-name-is-so-important.17118/ )

What objection do you have to the word "Theos"? If you object to using the English translation of "Theos" and saying "God" because it sounds like "Gad", why would you not just say "Theos"? Why translate it into Hebrew?

And I, personally, DO generally prefer other terminology to 'god.' It is a title, and like SO many other words, context-dependent: It can refer to YHVH, or any number of imitations and fakes.

As most here should be aware, The Adversary, HaSatan, (also a title, albeit generally derogatory, but also used MANY times in Scripture) also likes to pirate names and titles (baal, lord, molech, ishtar, baal-zebub, and baal-fill-in-the-blank, etc.)

Even "Elohim," (capitalized only in English, in an attempt to specify that context) and variant like "El" or Elohekah (usually with context, like "Yahuah Elohekah") or even (as per David in the Psalms) "Elohi," (MY El) has issues that confuse those from whom His Name and titles have been hidden. (including, certainly, the 'royal plural,' that is inherent in "Elohim," possessive forms of titles, and so on.)

So it's not the equally context-dependant word 'theos' I have a problem with, but a derivative term like "theology" - the "study of gods."

I am not, and have NO desire to be, a 'theologian.' My interest in study is of the ONE, True Elohim, who has a number of titles in Scripture, including "El Shaddai," essentially the All-Sufficient El, or 'god', Yahuah Rapha (Yah our Healer), and other context-specific titles, like 'our Banner', etc, up to the very Salvation of Yah, Yahushua, aka also the "Torah Made Flesh." He IS, in fact, 'echad,' and The Word (Instruction).

The larger point is that you will literally 'play hell' trying to find words that have NOT been pirated, diluted, twisted, or perverted by pagan misapplication. Context IS key. And so is knowing WHAT words we choose to use, in that proper context.
 
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The important thing is keeping YAHUAH’s commandments, and faith in his Son - the Messiah - YAHUSHA. “If you love me - keep my commandments.” He says most of his people are bad grapes. Only a small remnant will return. The rest are destined for destruction.

I believe the 1000 year reign is in the past. The real Jerusalem is still abandoned and desolate. Based on the scriptures - the real land that is promised to Abraham’s descendants is in Africa. It’s the only area that can fit the scriptures. A land of milk and honey. YAHUAH has kept Africa for the most part abandoned. Even during the 1000 year reign - you don’t see the typical millennium reign buildings (which even today we can’t build) in Africa - but you see them littered everywhere across the world. Why? It’s to fulfill the scriptures:

Ezekiel 35:35

35 And when I bring you back, people will say, ‘This former wasteland is now like the Garden of Eden! The abandoned and ruined cities now have strong walls and are filled with people!’

Isaiah 49:14
Yet Jerusalem says, “YAHUAH has deserted us; YAHUAH has forgotten us.” 15 “Never! Can a mother forget her nursing child?

21 For most of my children were killed, and the rest were carried away into exile. I was left here all alone. Where did all these people come from?

It’s impossible that the land is in Palestine. It’s dry land - not milk and honey. When the Jews came into the land in 1948 - it wasn’t abandoned. It wasn’t Desolate. There weren’t ruined buildings. It was the entire opposite!

So we have the 2nd exodus and a return of the remnant from all the nations back into the land. Israel and Judah. United under one King again - Prince David - forever and ever. There’s even a 3rd temple going to be built - more glorious than the previous ones - that’s also mentioned in Ezekiel 40-48. It’s an everlasting peace covenant. I believe the 2nd exodus will happen in our generation. The devil has deceived most of Christianity - Jesus did everything for you. You don’t have to do anything. Continue to sin - it’s ok. Don’t keep his commandments. Just wait for rapture - because you said one little prayer. These people are mentioned by YAHUAH in Isaiah 65:

I was ready to be found, but no one was looking for me.

For when I called, you did not answer. When I spoke, you did not listen. You deliberately sinned—before my very eyes — and chose to do what you know I despise.

But I will not destroy them all,” says YAHUAH.
“For just as good grapes are found among a cluster of bad ones (and someone will say, ‘Don’t throw them all away— some of those grapes are good!’), so I will not destroy all Israel. For I still have true servants there. 9 I will preserve a remnant of the people of Israel and of Judah to possess my land. Those I choose will inherit it, and my servants will live there.

And look! I will create Jerusalem as a place of happiness. Her people will be a source of joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and delight in my people. And the sound of weeping and crying will be heard in it no more. 20 “No longer will babies die when only a few days old. No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life. No longer will people be considered old at one hundred! Only the cursed will die that young!
21 In those days people will live in the houses they build and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 Unlike the past, invaders will not take their houses and confiscate their vineyards.
For my people will live as long as trees, and my chosen ones will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains. 23 They will not work in vain, and their children will not be doomed to misfortune.
For they are people blessed by YAHUAH, and their children, too, will be blessed. 24 I will answer them before they even call to me. While they are still talking about their needs, I will go ahead and answer their prayers! 25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together. The lion will eat hay like a cow. But the snakes will eat dust. In those days no one will be hurt or destroyed on my holy mountain, I, YAHUAH, have spoken!”
 
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The larger point is that you will literally 'play hell' trying to find words that have NOT been pirated, diluted, twisted, or perverted by pagan misapplication.
Absolutely. I mean, Allah is derived from or at least closely linked to Elohim, so maybe we shouldn't use Elohim because its close translation and near phonetic equivalent Allah is most commonly used by Muslims. How far do you take this? It's just impractical.

At the end of the day, the decision on where to draw the line - which words to accept and which to reject - ends up based on personal emotion, NOT scriptural study. Sure it's informed by scriptural study to show you which words have potential problems, and which have more problems than others, but I'm saying the LINE is still an emotional decision. And I don't find that logically sound.

Also, back to this:
But if Master = Lord and Lord = Baal then Master = Baal and would be just as objectionable as Lord. Struggling to follow your logic here.
I realise that what you're really saying @Earth_is- is that it is fine to call God "Baal" provided you translate Baal as "Master" but not if you translate it as "Lord". I know that's not what you think you're saying, it's not what you intended to say, but it is what you actually are saying.

This is not logical, it is emotional - what it really means is that you have an emotional objection to the title "Lord" but do not have an emotional objection to the title "Master".
 
What does any of this have to do with the mission of Biblical Families? That's what I'm wondering...
 
What does any of this have to do with the mission of Biblical Families? That's what I'm wondering...

I would say it’s all connected. Scripture gives us answers as to why the world rejects him and his ways - even though they call him their Savior. And for his servants that love him - keep his commandments - and faith in his Son - there’s hope through a bigger exodus (this time from all the nations instead of just Egypt).

2nd Exodus:

Isaiah 60:22
The smallest family will become a thousand people, and the tiniest group will become a mighty nation. At the right time, I, YAHUHA, will make it happen.”

Jeremiah 31:33
This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares YAHUAH. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their Elohim, and they will be my people.

Psalm 37:29
The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever.

It's a major bible prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled yet.

Just look at how most of christianity responds to polygyny - even if you give them the Word. Why? Very simple - as Paul writes:

2 Corinthians 11:4
You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

What does Paul say:

Romans 8:7-9
7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to Elohim. It never did obey Elohim’s laws, and it never will. 8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please Elohim. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature.

It’s a different Jesus most of the world is following. Built upon Constantine and the circus fathers that followed him. You’ve got pastors and priests sexually abusing young children. Their own children are homosexuals, drug addicts, or in prison. The land is cursed - the food is full of gmo, and the drinking water is full of things not good for you. Lawlessness is rising. How? Perhaps because not everyone is a Catholic? The Mother Church. No - South America is mostly all Catholic and that land is cursed too. Over 2.00 billion Christians in the world and the world is going down the toilet. Why? The world is following a different Jesus whom the apostles did not preach.
 
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