So you assume Gentiles are grafted onto Israel? We are grafted onto a branch instead of the Root? How do we partake in the Holiness of God if we’re not grafted into His root? Do you understand how grafting works?
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800 Years in Exile
- Thread starter OttoM
- Start date
To Abraham. A major modern heresy is taking the promises to Abraham and assuming that they are in large part for the present day and apply to the descendants of Judah, who was just one of Abraham's many great-grandchildren.
Of course - being the apostles and the other Jewish members of the early church, the Jews that chose to follow Messiah through faith. They were a sizeable remnant, and their descendents are still larger.
Given who his remnant are, I wonder if and when that will occur.
Who is the nourishing Olive Tree? Where did Paul get that from?
Jeremiah 11:16
16 YAHUAH called you (Jews) a thriving olive tree with fruit beautiful in form. But with the roar of a mighty storm he will set it on fire, and its branches will be broken.
The Root was always the Most High. The Olive Tree is his prized possession - Israel and Judah united together through the Messiah - who came in his Father’s name.
Ezekiel 47:22-23
22 Distribute the land as an allotment for yourselves and for the foreigners who have joined you and are raising their families among you. They will be like native-born Israelites to you and will receive an allotment among the tribes. 23 These foreigners are to be given land within the territory of the tribe with whom they now liveRuth was formerly a gentile. She became grafted into the House of Jacob. Paul says we were formerly gentile. Also grafted into the House of Jacob - the Olive Tree. Ruth's name is even listed in the genealogy of the Messiah. And she “was” a foreigner. What Paul was preaching about grafting wasn’t a new concept.
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Respectfully, you have little understanding what your talking about. Little understanding of who Christ is and you can't be speaking this by the Spirit of God.
Galatians 6:15-17
King James Version
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
Who is the Mother of Prostitutes in the book of revelation? It is clearly describing the Roman Catholic Church. The Word says she has many daughters - who are also prostitutes. So who are her daughters? The Protestant religion was created by a Roman Catholic - Martin Luther. Islam was created through a Roman Catholic - Mohammed married a Catholic woman. In Islam they also "venerate" the queen of heaven (mary).
The Pope even tells you that Muslims are her brothers and sisters. Of course they are! Because the Roman Catholic is their Mother, and she even views all her 501 (c)3 Christian denominations as her daughters as well. Whether you deny it or not - she still see's you as her daughters. It's all built on the rock of Constantine. NOT the Rock of the Messiah.
Pope Francis: 'Christians and Muslims are brothers and sisters'
Pope Francis visits a mosque in the capital of the Central African Republic, and calls for religious harmony in a country divided along religious lines.
www.bbc.com
That's why the Creator and your Savior tells his people "Come out of her." Come out of the religious system. It’s all going to crash, because it's built on sand. And how great will the fall be. That's why it's only a remnant of Israel/Judah that make it back into the land. That's why the Messiah says it's a narrow road, and few find it. The entire religious system is built through the illusion of choice. But it all goes back to the Mother of harlots - the Roman Catholic System - built on the foundation of Constantine.
Tell me - if "Sola Scriptura" was true - why do protestants celebrate Sabbath on Sunday versus Saturday? Like I said - built on Constantine. Did Constantine shed his blood and was resurrected? Are you washed clean by Constantine or the Messiah? You can only serve one Master.
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It's a major prophecy from the prophets. Ezekiel. Isaiah. Hosea. Jeremiah. They all talk about a future time - when Israel's numbers are like the sand in the seashore - but only a remnant will come back to the land. Almost all of them will be destined for the sword, but a remnant whom he calls his true servants - will be taken out of all the countries they've been scattered. You can read the prophets, and the Most High will tell you some of the reasons why they are destined for the sword. Ukraine has already been attacked by the sword. Germany and other Eastern European countries seem to be next in line. The country of Israel also seems to be next.
Have you've heard of Albert Pike's 3 World War plan? He was a 33rd degree freemason. These letters are from the early 20th century. Here's how he detailed the final war:
Quoting:
Albert Pike: The 3 World Wars? | News24
Let me take a U-Turn and face the east and get into the occult.
www.news24.com
The Most High says that when his remnant (Israel and Judah) return back to the land and are given an everlasting peace covenant - that they returned "RECOVERING FROM WAR." So war/conflict has to happen first. You have many wealthy elite building underground bunkers here in the United States. Since the United States has a lot of Israelites - it will face the sword/war/destruction. That's biblical prophecy. The powers at be are even telling the people straight to their faces that they're planning a massive blackout in the united states. If the blackout hits (no police to call) - do you think all the people coming into the country illegally are going to play nice? What about Antifa or BLM movement? What about your "saved by grace - I can sin all I want" Christian? It all aligns with biblical prophecy.
People think they can accept the Savior, but then completely dis-respect his ways, his laws, and his commandments; and still end up being saved. Maybe it's what your lying 501 (c)3 pastor said, but it's not what HE says:
Leviticus 26:15-16
if you reject my laws and look at my rules with disgust, if you reject my promise by disobeying my commands, then this is what I will do to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror
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It's a major prophecy from the prophets. Ezekiel. Isaiah. Hosea. Jeremiah. They all talk about a future time - when Israel's numbers are like the sand in the seashore - but only a remnant will come back to the land. Almost all of them will be destined for the sword, but a remnant whom he calls his true servants - will be taken out of all the countries they've been scattered. You can read the prophets, and the Most High will tell you some of the reasons why they are destined for the sword. Ukraine has already been attacked by the sword. Germany and other Eastern European countries seem to be next in line. The country of Israel also seems to be next.
Have you've heard of Albert Pike's 3 World War plan? He was a 33rd degree freemason. These letters are from the early 20th century. Here's how he detailed the final war:
Quoting:
Albert Pike: The 3 World Wars? | News24
Let me take a U-Turn and face the east and get into the occult.
The Most High says that when his remnant (Israel and Judah) return back to the land and are given an everlasting peace covenant - that they returned "RECOVERING FROM WAR." So war/conflict has to happen first. You have many wealthy elite building underground bunkers here in the United States. Since the United States has a lot of Israelites - it will face the sword/war/destruction. That's biblical prophecy. The powers at be are even telling the people straight to their faces that they're planning a massive blackout in the united states. If the blackout hits (no police to call) - do you think all the people coming into the country illegally are going to play nice? What about Antifa or BLM movement? What about your "saved by grace - I can sin all I want" Christian? It all aligns with biblical prophecy.
People think they can accept the Savior, but then completely dis-respect his ways, his laws, and his commandments; and still end up being saved. Maybe it's what your lying 501 (c)3 pastor said, but it's not what HE says:
Leviticus 26:15-16
if you reject my laws and look at my rules with disgust, if you reject my promise by disobeying my commands, then this is what I will do to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror
It will not be happening on this earth.
Hebrews 11
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
We look toward the new heavens and new earth. We won't be regathered to the land of Israel on earth, there is no continuing city here.
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I am thankful to be grafted into the True Vine, YAHWEH with us, in the flesh, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself.
The promise to Abraham and his Seed referred to the God Man, Jesus Christ, not the nations of Judah or Israel (though they are also branches). The Man is the Vine, and He is my Life.
"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ." (Galatians 3:16)
The promise to Abraham and his Seed referred to the God Man, Jesus Christ, not the nations of Judah or Israel (though they are also branches). The Man is the Vine, and He is my Life.
"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ." (Galatians 3:16)
Then you're an Israelite.
Galatians 3:28-29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
According to Paul, “all in Christ” are the same. The same father Abraham, the same offspring and the same heir. According to the scripture - what is this group called? They are the Israelites:
Jeremiah 50:6 “My people (Israel) have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray, turning them away on the mountains. From mountain to hill they have gone. They have forgotten their fold.
Ezekiel 11:16-21 16 Tell the exiles, ‘This is what YAHUAH says: Although I have scattered you in the countries of the world, I will be a sanctuary to you during your time in exile. 17 ‘Thus says YAHUAH: I will gather you back from the nations you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.’
Ezekiel 34:15-16 15 I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down, declares YAHUAH. 16 I will seek “the lost”, and I will bring back the strayed.
If you're in the body of the Messiah - you're an Israelite. Not a gentile or christian. All scripture points to “Israelites.” There is no end time Bible prophecy that mentions the word Christians. The northern kingdom has been in exile for 800 years before the messiah came. 800 years = the whole world is pretty much the lost sheep of Israel.
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The re-gathering of Israel and Judah under King David must happen. It's a major biblical prophecy.
That's bad advice. The inspired writings of Paul cause no one to stumble.
"There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." (2nd Peter 3:16 ESV)
The man who twists Paul's instruction to his own destruction, also twists all the rest of Scripture to his destruction.
The problem isn't Scripture in general, or the writings of Paul. The problem is in the man.
Which the 'ignorant and unstable' twist to their own destruction. You're correct - the problem is the man. Not Paul's writings. I'm not attacking Paul's letters, but it should be a big clue for most people that they should not be reading Paul's letters in the beginning. If someone was raised with "Paul, Paul, Paul" without any foundation in the Word - then it's best for them to completely set Paul to the side - read the rest of Scripture - then come back to Paul.
I get the strong impression that what @Earth_is- is really trying to get to is that Torah obedience (specifically the covenant at Sinai) is the key requirement (along with faith in Jesus of course) for salvation.
The whole book of Galatians is very clear that this is not the case. There is one condition, and it is Faith in God through Jesus Christ. That is how Abraham was saved, and it is the way we must be saved.
True faith always produces action. It always invariably produces obedience to God. Men who continue to live godless lives do not know, or actually believe in Jesus Christ.
All of Scripture informs us how God wants man to live (including the laws given at Sinai). Most Christians don't take Torah as seriously as they should.
Nonetheless, faith is how men are justified before God.
The whole book of Galatians is very clear that this is not the case. There is one condition, and it is Faith in God through Jesus Christ. That is how Abraham was saved, and it is the way we must be saved.
True faith always produces action. It always invariably produces obedience to God. Men who continue to live godless lives do not know, or actually believe in Jesus Christ.
All of Scripture informs us how God wants man to live (including the laws given at Sinai). Most Christians don't take Torah as seriously as they should.
Nonetheless, faith is how men are justified before God.
@Earth_is- Do all men need to be circumcised?
Torah means instructions. If we love him - we keep his commandments. Just like Abraham did through faith:
Genesis 26:5
I will do this because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”
You don't keep it for justification.
James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Galatians 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who ‘would be’ justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
- It's the same thing Paul said in Romans:
Romans 9:31-32
Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness, did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works.
The saints of the Most High keep the law through faith. Not for justification. We're to keep the law - because it's how we can walk righteously. How we're set apart. How we're to be Holy. "If you love me keep my commandments."
His law is not the problem. It never was. Take the time to read Psalms 119. It's all about giving glory to his law. Paul said he loves the law. Many Jews believed in the Messiah, and were still "Zealous" for the law. They kept the law. They instructed gentiles to go and listen to the law of Moses every sabbath - same thing the Messiah said before his sacrifice and resurrection:
Matthew 23:2-26 CEV
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
Someone is lying. The Word of the Prophet, Savior, and the Most High in the flesh - the Messiah:
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Did the Messiah simply get it wrong? Or as Peter says - people twist scripture to their own destruction?
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I'm not going to preach circumcision for salvation. Because then I would be preaching a works based gospel. And there are curses attached for preaching a different gospel than the one the Apostles preached.
I would simply say - "If you love me - keep my commandments." Paul was still practicing circumcision. He even circumcised Timothy. Did he do that immediately? He wasn't. Neither was Abraham circumcised immediately either. A time period passes - and a man may say - you know what - I want that 'sign of the covenant." I want to be set apart. I want to experience blessings for obedience and keeping his commandments. And the man may decide to keep circumcision on the 8th day - as a demonstration of his faith.
If you're not circumcised in the heart - then you can circumcise the entire world, and it's not going to help you:
Jeremiah 9:25-26
A time is coming,” says YAHUAH, “when I will punish all those who are circumcised in body but not in spirit— 26 the Egyptians, Edomites, Ammonites, Moabites, the people who live in the desert in remote places, and yes, even the people of Judah. And like all these pagan nations, the people of Israel also have uncircumcised hearts.”
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Luke 11:28
Jesus replied, “But even more blessed are all who hear the word of the Most High, and put it into practice.”
Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before the Most High, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
Jesus replied, “But even more blessed are all who hear the word of the Most High, and put it into practice.”
Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before the Most High, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
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This is a great book I recommend that will greatly help anyone understand Paul's letters better.
Ok, so I'm going to ask for clarification so I can understand your position and assertion.
So if a man refuses physical circumcision, what does that mean?