@rockfox isn't active for some months.Have you been paying attention to Jordan Peterson in the last 5 years?
And rumor is his daughter is running his X account.
@rockfox isn't active for some months.Have you been paying attention to Jordan Peterson in the last 5 years?
Which in essence means to become noble.However, in the Concordant Version of the Old Testament, Exodus 20:12 reads, "Glorify your father and your mother." Note that the Concordant versions make every effort to translate every Hebrew and Aramaic word in WWCTOT into exactly the same English word, but they also do the same with every Greek and Aramaic word in WWCTNT -- so apparently the closest thing the word Paul chose in Greek meant 'honor' in English, and it may even be the case that, as he wrote in Greek to Greek-speaking audiences that the original Hebrew OT was translated from that language into the closest thing in Greek the authors of the Septuagint could ascertain (whoops! another translation process!).
The most original, though, was originally Hebrew, and it translates literally into 'glorify.'
I don't get this. If husband to be and bride to be are most important relationship, where is place for father? By Pareto principle he is irrevelant.And who better to take it seriously than a father?
Best way to welcome potential new family member is with fear. LOL.This is precisely why it's a good idea: the thought of a father interfering is not supposed to make a potential husband comfortable.
This is so incorrect. I wonder did anybody else even try to apply decision science to this?Avoiding the downside is essentially helping the upside; the rest is negotiable.
It's wise to ask for additional perspectives which doesn't mean they deserve veto right or their opinion taken into account (you can receive idiotic advice). It's expansion of decision committe which I have problem which in every domain where it happens is great pain in ass.People are going to always have an opinion, that can happen with or without a father involved in the courting process.
Speed of time between first meeting and sex happening influence how masculine bride to be perceives her man. Slow is bad, very bad.Also, I was under the impression that most arranged marriages have a fairly short courting process. If you want sex right away, arranged marriage may be your best bet
Daughter will need this even after being married. It's more about getting useful skills for life, not one proper decision.Being properly trained doesn't make one void of mistakes. If a father trained her this way, then it's his job to see her through it until she finds a good husband.
She has love life. It's way more than sex.I don't see it as meddling in her love life until after she is married. She doesn't really have a love life until then; she has a courtship. Meddling in the actual marriage after the fact should be completely off-limits.
There's a rumor that @rockfox's daughter is running his X account?
Sorry, I meant Peterson's daughter is running her father's account.There's a rumor that @rockfox's daughter is running his X account?
What about his biblicalfamilies.org account?
P.S. Rockfox is more prone than I am to take long voluntary absences from these forums. He'll be back. Or his daughter, if you're right about the rumor.
Oh, that!Sorry, I meant Peterson's daughter is running her father's account.
Is it incumbent upon YHWH to be honorable before we honor Him?
Of course I've noticed.God is the source of honor. People who know and love God tend to be honorable.
Perhaps you haven't noticed but I have serious issues with people who claim entitlements like honor and authority without having done anything to deserve such things. Myself, I never tell my children to honor me. Either I am worthy of this or I need to do better. Either way, it starts with me and not the little person who sees the example I set for them.
I did so to lead into noting that expecting the one to whom one is supposed to be submitting to first demonstrate worthiness before submitting is nothing more than maintaining an excuse for refraining from submitting when one doesn't want to do what one is being asked to submit to.Is it incumbent upon YHWH to be honorable before we honor Him?
you will be much better served if you let go of this obsession with whether or not other women's men are living up to your standards. If you're not sleeping in a man's bed, cooking his meals, cleaning his home, bearing and/or raising his children, following his lead, or implementing his vision, you don't even come close to having a vote in the matter -- and any effort you put into persuading other women that they should feel free to rebel against their husbands if those husbands aren't living up to your standards (much like any effort a man makes to convince other men that they should stop loving or protecting their wives if they don't live up to their standards) is destined to increase rather than decrease misery in those households
OK, I just got out of my system a lengthy response to you, Nick, related to whether or not Megan was communicating what I perceive her to be communicating [which, by the way, boils down to women having an escape clause from their marital responsibilities if their judgment -- or Megan's -- is that the men whom they pledged to follow don't measure up in some way, because men just can't demand submission, you know, whereas women can just refuse to submit] -- but I've erased it and prefer to just request that you enlighten us about how she and I are talking past each other.I’m not Megan but FWIW I’ve never thought this was what she was communicating. Seems to me there is talking past each other.
Ephesians 6:2-3Myself, I never tell my children to honor me.
OK, I just got out of my system a lengthy response to you, Nick, related to whether or not Megan was communicating what I perceive her to be communicating [which, by the way, boils down to women having an escape clause from their marital responsibilities if their judgment -- or Megan's -- is that the men whom they pledged to follow don't measure up in some way, because men just can't demand submission, you know, whereas women can just refuse to submit] -- but I've erased it and prefer to just request that you enlighten us about how she and I are talking past each other.
Doesn’t seem to be an obsession, just a stated answer when the question is posed. Doesn’t seem to me that she’s any more obsessed about this than you are about the other viewpoint. Passionate perhaps?you will be much better served if you let go of this obsession
I haven’t read a single thing she’s written that gave me the impression she thought she had a vote. But like all the rest of us was answering the question posed from her perspective.with whether or not other women's men are living up to your standards. If you're not sleeping in a man's bed, cooking his meals, cleaning his home, bearing and/or raising his children, following his lead, or implementing his vision, you don't even come close to having a vote in the matter -
Again, I don’t recall seeing anything that even in passing looked like she was trying to persuade women that they should feel free to rebel.- and any effort you put into persuading other women that they should feel free to rebel against their husbands if those husbands aren't living up to your standards (much like any effort a man makes to convince other men that they should stop loving or protecting their wives if they don't live up to their standards) is destined to increase rather than decrease misery in those households.
I’m not Megan but FWIW I’ve never thought this was what she was communicating. Seems to me there is talking past each other.
He's not the only one who sees it, by the way.Doesn’t seem to be an obsession, just a stated answer when the question is posed. Doesn’t seem to me that she’s any more obsessed about this than you are about the other viewpoint. Passionate perhaps?
I haven’t read a single thing she’s written that gave me the impression she thought she had a vote. But like all the rest of us was answering the question posed from her perspective.
Again, I don’t recall seeing anything that even in passing looked like she was trying to persuade women that they should feel free to rebel.
I could certainly be wrong about all this, I don’t have the benefit of lengthy history to lend me perspective. But perspective might be the problem.
Just last night I was humbled because I’ve been looking for a way to financially benefit a friend of mine in his business as a fair exchange of value for his assistance in marketing a new business venture of mine.
I was taking the entirely wrong approach and was blinded by my perspective.
You could be spot on in your assessment. But it seems to me like this is a hot button issue for you that immediately triggers an assumption about the motivations of others. If it weren’t because of my love for you both, I’d ignore and go on with my life.
Again, there could be copious historical data I’m not privy to. But you might be more well served to ask what her motivations are rather than assume.
Then again, I could be flat out wrong. Which is why I worded this the way I did. “Seems”
This goes both ways.He's not the only one who sees it, by the way.
It's a commandment. In other words, something we are supposed to teach our children. To fail to teach them this is to fail to teach them a core commandment of God. I understand your personal objection to it @MeganC on an emotional level - but as your objection is in direct opposition to the plain instruction of God, the simple fact is that you are wrong.
Oh Megan, that is such a tough question. I've spent a long time trying to work out how to respond, and I don't have all the answers, but I'll do my best.Explain to me exactly how I was supposed to honor my father after he raped me?
Oh, and kindly don't dodge or evade my question like you usually do when you stake out a concrete position and get called on it.
Thank you.
Only natural and reasonable position. Would you give your business to be cared under, shall we say, unproven person?Of course I've noticed.
However, while what you're saying certainly sounds good -- and certain individuals even make it look good within their own realms -- I would challenge anyone to identify a larger community where that has been implemented successfully. Every failure of every such system has justified its failure by blaming those who don't set the proper example, as if it's within human capability of not only perfecting oneself (one level of impossibility) but inspiring everyone else to perfect themselves as well (impossibility squared).
In truth, systems that demand that those in a superior position first demonstrate worthiness before being given deference
It's opposite. When honorable must demostrate competency to be honorable, then must keep being honorable. Otherwise adios.are the systems that are most prone to not only corruption but being overthrown by those with evil intent who care not one whit about how virtuous the systems' creators are or consider themselves to be.
Even Lord Himself must earn honor. By deeds and no way otherwise.When we bring it back to God, we can see the most stark examples of what I'm pointing to. Behind any human assertion that God is the Source of Honor is the natural human tendency to either blindly assert that God is possessed of all ultimate Honor or, actually more commonly, to grant each individual human the right to hold God accountable for whether or not He is honorable.
To find some excuse in Scripture for identifying chinks in God's Honor Armor is probably the most common justification human beings produce for either being atheists or giving themselves all the wiggle room in world to ignore God and set up their own moral codes.
When I asked,
Yes, it has to be as matter of general principle. Why we should honor someone who doesn't deserve it. Satan was born before us, is wiser, can teach us many things. It's his deeds which disqualify him from receiving any honor. Without deeds criteria, Satan is also honorable one.Is it incumbent upon YHWH to be honorable before we honor Him?
Off course is it reason not to provide honor. Maybe asker isn't worthy.I did so to lead into noting that expecting the one to whom one is supposed to be submitting to first demonstrate worthiness before submitting is nothing more than maintaining an excuse for refraining from submitting when one doesn't want to do what one is being asked to submit to.
Wrong reasoning. There is no consequences for bad behaviour, therefore it persist.I'll provide an example outside of the family hierarchy realm to illustrate what I'm describing. One of my former careers was running university dormitories and apartment complexes. In most cases, I was brought in to rehabilitate out-of-control environments. Ultimately, I became nationally-recognized as a discipline expert, and I can boil down why that happened to this: in almost all higher ed residential situations, discipline is approached in one of two unsuccessful ways:
This is the primary reason why dormitories are so prone to chaos, disruption and damage. Schools brag about how people in dorms get higher grades than people who live off campus, but anyone paying attention knows it's only because it's easier to get to class and harder to become lazy stoners.
- Live-in staff tend to be the kind of people who enjoyed extracurricular activities when they were in high school and college, and they promote the approach that says everything will work out if the constituents come to recognize that staff is on their side, that staff has integrity, and that staff behaves as proper role models. If their supervisors support this approach, live-in staff respect their supervisors.
- The administrators who supervise the live-in staff have a different approach: make policies; publicize the policies; ensure the live-in staff know the policies and expect them to also publicize the policies and then enforce them; unfortunately, what always accompanies this is the administrators expecting the live-in staff to report how enforcement is going, and then live-in staff is rewarded or punished based on how well the residents are behaving, so when misbehavior goes up, administrators punish live-in staff, but administrators never have any solutions for changing misbehavior besides "remind them of the rules." But when live-in staff punish residents, administrators punish live-in staff.
In this system, everyone from the residents to the live-in staff to the many layers of supervisors operates on the practice of expecting those 'above' them to first demonstrate honor and respect. This is the equivalent of rewarding the tyranny of the toddler. Yes, people are inspired by high-integrity, honorable people, but in addition to good-hearted people being inspired by their better angels,
Only if honorable people don't punish bad people.honorable folks also inspire bad-hearted people to take advantage of that honor.
You bring consequnces for bad behaviour and it's suddenly stops.I used many techniques to produce the results I got, but the most necessary fundamental one was to start off every year by giving the residents a very brief overview of the rules, asserting that ignorance would be no excuse, asserting that it was their own personal responsibilities to familiarize themselves with all the rules, warn them that they would be given a couple days before no-excuses enforcement would begin -- explaining that, when confronted, the first expectation would be to immediately comply with any directive given by a student staff member, and then subsequently comply with showing up for a hearing with me, where punishment would generally start off small but acknowledgement of what they did wrong would be required if they didn't want to be referred for higher-level adjudication. My staffs were always trained to listen to no excuses, and especially to refrain from any attempt on the part of a miscreant to turn it around to ad hominem attacks on the staff member, on me, on the residence life department, the school, their parents, the government or on God Himself. "Do not fall into the trap of thinking that you need to justify the level of authority you have. Just identify what they're doing wrong, inform them you'll be making a report, expect compliance and then note in your report what level of compliance you received. And walk away. If sustained noncompliance puts others at risk, get in touch with me, and I'll decide if the police are to be brought into the situation."
Competence is most reasonable requirement for follower to ask. Otherwise, you risk you death, therefore testing potential leaders of what are they made of is critical.What worked was to entirely refrain from expecting myself or my staff to prove we were worthy of being complied with.
Not good model since parent-child relationship isn't voluntary.The same applies in the God:Christ:husband:wife:childrenets hierarchical configuration. Critical Theories teach the notion that, if one has a grievance, one needn't submit. The results are all around us. Feral pets. Feral children. Feral wives and girlfriends. Feral men. And at some level we must be justifying it all as Yah's and Yeshua's fault for failing to sufficiently role model for us how we should be behaving.
Leaders are still being tested. One of red pill conclusion is that women will never stop testing her man. There is good reason for that.The bottom line, though, is that They do not owe us such demonstrations, nor do husbands owe their wives the practice of receiving a seal of approval from those women about how they're leading. Certainly, being an honorable, integritous, respectable, godly man is preferable to their alternatives, but part of leading as the head of one's family is also to simply expect one's woman to submit and provide the consequences when she doesn't.