Male Headship

[Cap]

It will run better if both sides are pumping but one side can get the job done.

To be a Godly family, wives submit AND husbands love.

Same thing.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I am sorry but that's just stupid. One party dies and the marriage is over. Divorce, its over. For you I guess, the old pump rail car works too, when the husband wants to drink a couple of beers and make the wife do the pumping, it still works.

Are you doing this on purpose?

You have got to be the most unfriendly person here. Why couldn't you just say, hey nice analogy but what about this one, and state yours?

In the case of divorce or death you'd be getting off the cart. The cart is marriage in this analogy. Once you're no longer married, i.e. dead or divorced, you're no longer on the cart. And yes it can work if the husband drinks beer all day and makes the woman do all the work.

 

[Pacman]

Part of the miscommunication is the difference between “marriage” and “godly marriage” both doing their roles properly is godly marriage one or both slacking off or rebelling can still be marriage but it’s not godly...

 

[Cap]

If the cart is marriage then when your dead there is no cart.

This has just become ridiculous. I think you have done what you intend to do in every discussion.

 

[Pacman]

He cannot though say at any point that his way is going to be the way it should be and your going to abide by it. No, that is not the way to approach a woman.

Disagree here. I actually think this is part of his job. He shouldn’t necessarily be quick to get to this point but it is absolutely within his authority and even responsibility to do so. Rebellion does exist and gentleness is rarely the right answer to the spirit of rebellion.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Disagree here. I actually think this is part of his job. He shouldn’t necessarily be quick to get to this point but it is absolutely within his authority and even responsibility to do so. Rebellion does exist and gentleness is rarely the right answer to the spirit of rebellion.

You have all the right to disagree but coming from a woman's standpoint, that is not the appropriate way to approach a woman. As I said,wisdom and gentle guidance will always reach a woman's heart. "A gentle answer turns a wrath!"

 

[Rose of Sharon]

You have all the right to disagree but coming from a woman's standpoint, that is not the appropriate way to approach a woman. As I said,wisdom and gentle guidance will always reach a woman's heart. "A gentle answer turns a wrath!"

My husband is in leadership of our family but he knows how a woman needs to be treated and it is not by putting his foot down. I respect and honor him for the gentleness, patience and love that he bestows on me. In return, I honor and respect him as a leader.

 

[FollowingHim]

I really like the pump cart analogy. Nobody is ever perfect, at any one point one person may be putting more into the marriage than the other. Even if one person isn't trying any more, the other can keep the marriage together almost single-handedly, for a time anyway. And that might be what it takes to get through a difficult time. But once both are working together, even if not perfectly evenly, things will get better and better, and easier for the one who was keeping it going alone. You can take this analogy a long way.

 

[Cap]

My husband is in leadership of our family but he knows how a woman needs to be treated and it is not by putting his foot down. I respect and honor him for the gentleness, patience and love that he bestows on me. In return, I honor and respect him as a leader.

I understand what you are saying and respect your husband for his attempts to gently lead a woman, any man can do it the harsh way. I also respect you as a Godly wife to honor your husband in the name of Christ.

How about we all just take a breath and know that we are all in God's hands whichever way we choose to live. Peace.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I understand what you are saying and respect your husband for his attempts to gently lead a woman, any man can do it the harsh way. I also respect you as a Godly wife to honor your husband in the name of Christ.

How about we all just take a breath and know that we are all in God's hands whichever way we choose to live. Peace.

Peace be to you as well.

 

[rockfox]

The problem is for most people love is a feeling. So they feel love for you. They just don't feel like submitting by making you a sandwich.

But Christ comes on the scene and defines love this way...."If you love me you'll keep my commandments". i.e. love your husband by making him a sandwich when he says to. You show love through obedience. It is better to obey, even if out of obligation and not feeling, than to disobey.;

It is good to remember that both husbands and wives are commanded to love. In Titus 2 the older women were commanded to teach the younger to love their husbands and their children. Love, the feeling, of your sexual partner and your children comes naturally and spontaneously. And many would view a forced attempt at this love as fraudulent. But love as action, that needs to be taught.

However, the interesting thing though, is the job of the husband is spelled out in quite some detail which leads me to believe the concern from God is more on the husband than the wife. But yet all the focus we do seems to be on the wife first and whatever the husband does is secondary.

No, there are other passages directed at women. I would say that women are commanded to obey and submit more often than they are commanded to love. This focus in places like this on the wife is a result of the deficiency of teaching on these matters by the church. Everyone in church and society is eager to heap burdens on the husband. Yet none speak of the wives obligations and any such talk in most circles is deemed offensive. It is on that portion that the work of teaching the whole truth has been neglected.

I was thinking about this subject a couple of days ago. As I see the scriptures, children submit to their parents, wife submits to husband, husband submits to Christ and Christ submits to His Father. My thoughts took me to the position of pastor. Where does he fit in? I have seen pastors that thought they were our Daddy and took too much authority over a mans life. So much so, I started wondering if that pastors control and the husbands could be lumped into male over male dominance, a form of sodimite relationship without physical touch.

Then I have seen a pastor who has allowed himself to be broken by the Holy Spirit and would strived to only do what he saw the Father in heaven do.

So my question, in the role of male headship, where does a pastor fall in a biblical hierarchy?

There are parallel authorities. The heirarchy you mention pertains to the family. There is also a heirarchy in civil society. And then another form in the church. Remember that the role of the pastor are to teach, to rebuke, to and if necessarily protect the flock by leading them to disassociate from unrepentant members. The most important of these is his role in equiping through teaching. This is very much parallel and does not fit into the heirarchy of the family. You can see this in that a woman with a question in church is to go ask her husband at home: her husband is her spiritual leader. Pastors aren't to be usurping this role from husbands. The role of pastor is spoke of in scripture by the term elder. You could look at that in an OT, men there to judge disputes between members of the flock; and there is some basis for this in Paul's condemnation of Christians going to law against one another.

 

[Cap]

It is good to remember that both husbands and wives are commanded to love. In Titus 2 the older women were commanded to teach the younger to love their husbands and their children. Love, the feeling, of your sexual partner and your children comes naturally and spontaneously. And many would view a forced attempt at this love as fraudulent. But love as action, that needs to be taught..

I can agree with that.

No, there are other passages directed at women..

Can you show me where the responsibility of a woman, besides submission, towards a man reveals this?

I would say that women are commanded to obey and submit more often than they are commanded to love. This focus in places like this on the wife is a result of the deficiency of teaching on these matters by the church. Everyone in church and society is eager to heap burdens on the husband. Yet none speak of the wives obligations and any such talk in most circles is deemed offensive. It is on that portion that the work of teaching the whole truth has been neglected.

It is true that there is more said in regards to women directed at obeying and submitting over their responsibility to love, but I may be confused in whether you are saying that is in relationship to men. And yes, women not understanding their role in families is lacking because of the churches inability to come away from the feminist mindset, i.e. monogamy. And I don't think that the church is eager to place 'burdens' on the husband towards women, as it is more interested in making him irrelevant. But I do agree that anything that has to do with lessening the 'equality' towards women in a relationship is offensive to the church.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

So my question, in the role of male headship, where does a pastor fall in a biblical hierarchy?

As a councilor at best. IMO. He and the assembly form or are part of a great cloud of witnesses.

Here’s a good video on the Five Fold. He’s the only guy Ive heard speak on it that has the headship/authority right

Interestingly enough, its also the perfect model for poly.

He does have a couple of minor issues but overall its a long vid but I found it worth the watch.

 

[rockfox]

Can you show me where the responsibility of a woman, besides submission, towards a man reveals this?

Can you restate the question? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Cap]

Can you restate the question? I'm not sure what you mean.

My understanding is that the husband has a higher responsible to the well being of a family, emotionally, physically, and spiritually in God's design. Like a first born son has a higher responsiblity in a family. It appeared to me that you were saying that women have a higher responsiblity. I may have miss understood.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I really like the pump cart analogy. Nobody is ever perfect, at any one point one person may be putting more into the marriage than the other. Even if one person isn't trying any more, the other can keep the marriage together almost single-handedly, for a time anyway. And that might be what it takes to get through a difficult time. But once both are working together, even if not perfectly evenly, things will get better and better, and easier for the one who was keeping it going alone. You can take this analogy a long way.

I...what...I...huh. This is what getting along feels like...it's nice.

 

[rockfox]

My understanding is that the husband has a higher responsible to the well being of a family, emotionally, physically, and spiritually in God's design. Like a first born son has a higher responsiblity in a family. It appeared to me that you were saying that women have a higher responsiblity. I may have miss understood.

I would agree that men, as head, have greater responsibility. Being careful though that we don't place all responsibility upon them while absolving women. My point rather was about emphasis. While men may have greater accountability on these issues before God, the reason we end up talking a lot about the responsibilities of women is because that is a message the modern church has suppressed. The church is quick to heap burdens on men while continually excusing women.

Both husbands and wives were commanded to love; yet love is the weapon which we bludgeon men with in order to get them to submit to women while speaking not about the need for women to love as well.

 

[Mojo]

I would agree that men, as head, have greater responsibility. Being careful though that we don't place all responsibility upon them while absolving women. My point rather was about emphasis. While men may have greater accountability on these issues before God, the reason we end up talking a lot about the responsibilities of women is because that is a message the modern church has suppressed. The church is quick to heap burdens on men while continually excusing women.

Both husbands and wives were commanded to love; yet love is the weapon which we bludgeon men with in order to get them to submit to women while speaking not about the need for women to love as well.

I hear you, but at some point, the admonition about beams in our own eyes has to be addressed.
My kids sometimes balk at the variance in chores or directives given to each other because "that's not fair...she gets to do this, but I have to do this..." Sometimes The Father expects us men to man up and take care of our own S and let him worry about the women until we are strong enough individually and corporately. Too many milk drinking weaklings to do much about it right now. Build an army of meat eaters around you instead of crying over others' milk spilling.

 

[Phillip]

I would agree that men, as head, have greater responsibility. Being careful though that we don't place all responsibility upon them while absolving women. My point rather was about emphasis. While men may have greater accountability on these issues before God, the reason we end up talking a lot about the responsibilities of women is because that is a message the modern church has suppressed. The church is quick to heap burdens on men while continually excusing women.

Both husbands and wives were commanded to love; yet love is the weapon which we bludgeon men with in order to get them to submit to women while speaking not about the need for women to love as well.

In the past, I asked women ‘would you rather be loved or respected?’ The answer from women is almost always ‘Loved’. I’ve asked men the same question, ‘would you rather be loved or respected?’ The answer is almost always , ‘Respected’. This is normal for men and women. The Bible says it this way,

Ephesians 5:33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

In the military, men talk about respect, honor, duty, etc. These things come easy to a man. God knows that, that why he told us men to love. The opposite is true in women. Just how they watch over the little ones and you’ll know love comes easy. Respect? Well it comes easy for a woman after her man has given her sufficient evidence he deserves respect. However, the Bible tells women to respect from the get go. Men need to love from the get go as well. The Bible tells us to do just the opposite of what comes naturally to us. Go figure?!

 

[rockfox]

I hear you, but at some point, the admonition about beams in our own eyes has to be addressed.
My kids sometimes balk at the variance in chores or directives given to each other because "that's not fair...she gets to do this, but I have to do this..." Sometimes The Father expects us men to man up and take care of our own S and let him worry about the women until we are strong enough individually and corporately. Too many milk drinking weaklings to do much about it right now. Build an army of meat eaters around you instead of crying over others' milk spilling.

That's just another excuse to not talk about women's responsibilities, to let them off the hook. We must rather teach the whole council of God. I as a husband am the spiritual leader of my house. The spiritual condition of, and teaching to, my wife and children is of utmost concern to me. That is part of me 'taking care of my own s' because God gave it to me to do. Frankly, in light of Eph 5 there are fewer more basic things than this.

For me to ignore the scriptural admonishments towards women and only think about my own requirements would be abdicating my duty.