What were you saying about love again? I think I missed it while I was ducking your jab.
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Marriage to a second wife and the first doesn't know
- Thread starter Patricia C
- Start date
If my point was that a man ought to have a secret wife, then you would be correct. However, that was not my point. My only point and i mean ONLY point is that the Law does not say, thou shalt not have a secret wife. That’s it. That’s all I’m saying. That really is all I’m saying....
Not many families will openly admit that there is another “wife” due to the legal ramifications. So based on your thought, the withholding of information, they are deceiving everyone around them, are they not?
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By the same token, when the nuns were telling the German soldiers, “we haven’t seen any Jews”, and they had just hidden a Jewish family in the basement, we’re they sinning? Or being righteous? It could have also been phrased in such a way that the German soldiers made their own conclusion based on how the nuns directed remarks.
In the case of a relationship between a husband and wife, not being upfront with First Wife could create, and I believe it will, trust issues with first wife. I would imagine First Wife’s imagination would wonder ‘what else have I not been told?’ Even if he has been honest about everything else.
I totally agree it’s not wise, but I’m trying to figure out the line of required disclosure. Is it a sin for him to withhold ANY information, or just a sin for him to not tell about the other wife, or is it not a sin at all? Where is that line and/or is there one? I am the first to say I would LOVE if my husband was required to share every tidbit of information and any intimate conversation he has with someone else. I am NOT a fan of him having the ability to “withhold” information that is private or just between him and another. But that isn’t my right to know everything. That’s not something that is required of him. I don’t see anywhere in scripture that commands him, “thou shall share all details of everything with your wife”... and that includes if he has another wife.
Even though my husband was upfront and shares a lot with me, he still withholds things he doesn’t think is appropriate to share due to the personal nature (from friends or gals he has talked with), I have a roaring imagination and can take things to the extreme and wonder “what else have I not been told!” So, for me, that’s just Satan jumping in the mix trying to cause issues in my mind, if I let him.
Again.. not wise to have a secret wife! Lol
I think it’s wise to remember that from the ten thousand foot view, he should be trying to build a family. I’ve seen people who’ve tried to build on better foundations, and they haven’t lasted.
Do you have to? Is it required? Each family will determine this.
Do you have to? Is it required? Each family will determine this.
There are instances, in the past, where I have not been totally upfront and honest about something so I could cover my tracks for an upcoming present I was making or buying. Christmas time was when I have been the biggest offender if being honest. Then, there are things in the military when I carried a secret and top secret clearance, I would, from time to time, lie. Was it a sin?
In the case of close, intimate relationships, it would be wise to use the honesty road. But is it required? Is it a sin to keep certain details from a wife? Tough question. IMO, the rules of engagement, whether that engagement is battle or marriage, is best an agreement by all parties when it comes to marriage. Probably why fathers and the groom would hash out details prior to the marriage in the scriptures. When it comes to rules of engagement for battle? Those seem to be make them up as you go. However, cross certain lines and it’s prison time. So, battle is not a good option.
The Old Testament sounds like the best guidelines. Hash out the rules and come to an agreement. Both sides keeping in mind head of household while coming to a concensus, if possible.
One thought I’ve had, the blending of a family is tough. The blending of an additional wife would be tough. Having family time together with all could be some great times. Dinners could be a great time with all sorts of discussions of the day or week. Playing a board game or cards would be a blast. But you would exclude these times if one wife does not know about the other.
You have a good point.
I don’t think that it is comparable.
My wives know what I look like in my birthday suit, but the neighbors are just going to have to use their imagination.
Transparency in a marriage is different from transparency in the community.
Even transparency in the marriage can be abused, “Exactly what did she say about me and exactly what was your response?!”
“Wellll..... she said that you were extremely nosy and I had to agree with her.”
My two cents worth...
Absolutely yes with Rahab! (You beat me to it @Asforme&myhouse) She lied and told the people searching for the Israelite spies "dey went dataway" when they were hiding in her house. She then let them down and helped them escape alive. I would no doubt call it a blessing if "my" house was supernaturally preserved and my family gathered in it spared death.
The commandment is "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
It indicates a problem when in a righteous society someone "loves and makes a lie," but in this world there may be circumstances when in keeping with the spirit of "Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves" one could deliberately mislead ungodly people (like Rahab did) to protect God's servants. The motivation (heart condition) being key.
Abraham probably sought YHWH and instructed his wife in keeping with the leading he recieved. It has always bugged me when people say that Abraham's actions were because he lacked faith. I just don't see that. No way, no how!
In general though, and especially in loving relationships, it indicates a lack of trust and/or fear when one feels a need to lie. Perfect love casts out fear.
Great post
I think people too often assume bad motives on the part of those in the “hall of faith” and then just say something like, well, God used them in spite of their flaws (which is true), but i think we should go by what God says their motives were.
Samson is another one that people love to down on, but when you go back and actually read the text, you see that almost everything he did was because that was what God wanted him to do. It’s kind of wild.
Umm, you done caught my attention with that’n.
Where do you see that explained?
The story of Samson is one that is pivotal in my conversion from Christian to Fruitful Christian. I heard a preacher preach on him and his primary point was that Christians today like to excoriate him for “backsliding” after he loses his wife and then he kinda loses it. Prior to that he had some 20 years of being an incredible judge and Champion for Israel.
The tale is one of woe and warning and be careful because it could happen to you.
And yet who’s to say that God did not orchestrate everything that happened in Samson’s life to position him between the two columns on the exact day that the entire leadership of the Philistines were present and partying.
One man’s “falling off the wagon” could actually be in the center of God’s will and plan. Be careful who you judge. He rises and falls according to his master.
The tale is one of woe and warning and be careful because it could happen to you.
And yet who’s to say that God did not orchestrate everything that happened in Samson’s life to position him between the two columns on the exact day that the entire leadership of the Philistines were present and partying.
One man’s “falling off the wagon” could actually be in the center of God’s will and plan. Be careful who you judge. He rises and falls according to his master.
If you read through the whole story carefully in context and in light of Hebrews 11 it’s quite fascinating. I personally think that Samson is a type and shadow of Christ when He destroys his enemies. Something about not drinking of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God has come... which is after His robe is dipped in the blood of His enemies. It’s all type and shadowy
Key verses:
Judges 13:5
13:24-14:1 (ignore the chapter break)
14:4 (is a big one)
14:6
14:19
15:14
God’s plan for Samson was for him to start a fight with the Philistines and begin to deliver Israel from the them. God’s hand was all over it. Not saying everything he did was at God’s unctioning, but i think more of it was than we often realize.
The distinction between "lying" and "withholding information" here is a distinction without a difference. How exactly are you going to "not mention" your "secret wife" without lying about what you're doing? When you're leaving to go spend time with your "second wife", what exactly are you planning to tell your real wife? And the next time? And the next time?
Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, please disassociate from Biblical Families if you pull that stunt, or if the men here find out about it and find out that you lied to us as well as your real wife, we'll handle the disassociation from this end.
Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, please disassociate from Biblical Families if you pull that stunt, or if the men here find out about it and find out that you lied to us as well as your real wife, we'll handle the disassociation from this end.
I took a few days before replying to this so not to reply with frustration but a clear mind. I posed the question in this thread and welcome points of view for the purpose of creating dialogue. When i voice a thought or I share a scripture you take it as a jab at you as though this is personal. You are contrary to just about everyone who believes diferently from yourself. And again I welcome the differing points of view but I really don't appreciate your attacking manner. You believe you are right about everything and never have I seen you humble yourself to the fact you might not know it all. I just ask that when addressing me in any post please stop thinking I am attacking you or taking jabs at you. We do not have to see eye to eye on anything and if you don't agree with me and find you have strong emotion about something I have said. Take some time to calm down before addressing me.... or just ignore what I have said. You have accused me of much in other posts and I for the most try to steer away from you because we just clash.
I don't owe you anything other than to respect you enough to give you the space to be you. Please give me the same respect
It seems like, if you were really wanting to mend fences, you would have private messaged me or my wife, but since you chose the public forum for this I guess I will just respond here.
We have had our disagreements, although really, I can only think of one response I made to one of your comments about The Holy Spirit not being the Spirit of Truth, that could be bringing this up. I apologized, for the way the tone in my comment could have been misconstrued, TWICE. My apologies were met with a dismissive tone and a reiteration that you were still right. In what seemed like false humility and sarcasm, you said you would just leave it to the “men”. I could have come back with a smart aleck comment about that, but I didn’t. I let you have the last word.
As for this last comment, I’m not sure how else I was supposed to take it.
You said “That is a speculation and not fact.”
I literally started my comment with the phrase, ‘it’s quite possible’. Did you still need to point out that it was speculation, twice in one sentence? That’s why, in light of our previous skirmish, it seemed like a jab.
I’m sorry, what?? Passive aggressive, much?
I have accused you of lots of stuff? What did I accuse you of?
I have apologized to you multiple times and still you say “...never have I seen you humble yourself to the fact you might not know it all.“?
We have had our disagreements, although really, I can only think of one response I made to one of your comments about The Holy Spirit not being the Spirit of Truth, that could be bringing this up. I apologized, for the way the tone in my comment could have been misconstrued, TWICE. My apologies were met with a dismissive tone and a reiteration that you were still right. In what seemed like false humility and sarcasm, you said you would just leave it to the “men”. I could have come back with a smart aleck comment about that, but I didn’t. I let you have the last word.
As for this last comment, I’m not sure how else I was supposed to take it.
You said “That is a speculation and not fact.”
I literally started my comment with the phrase, ‘it’s quite possible’. Did you still need to point out that it was speculation, twice in one sentence? That’s why, in light of our previous skirmish, it seemed like a jab.
I’m sorry, what?? Passive aggressive, much?
I have accused you of lots of stuff? What did I accuse you of?
I have apologized to you multiple times and still you say “...never have I seen you humble yourself to the fact you might not know it all.“?
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Looking at the bare bones of the original question I would say that the husband has the responsibility to do his part to build healthy relationships in his family. Really the two wives are family, and should have a relationship even more than sisters should. Deliberately keeping them apart would be wrong, even if one or both of them would prefer it that way.
Of course these situations rarely consist of "bare bones" though. If the motives of the husband are to avoid his wife being angry at him I would say this is putting his comfort over his family. After all, "If, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. - 1 Peter 2:20".
If on the other hand he felt his wife would be hurt and devastated and would feel like she has to compete, or if his secret wife feels she would be an intruder or causing strife and pain, it would be more complicated. But the husband still has the responsibility to try to build up good relationships, rather than helping further the problem. Secrecy is just leaving the problem unsolved anyway.
On the third hand (...) if he has good reason to believe his wife will do a crime such as divorce, adultery, or murdering his other wife, there could be more understanding, though one must ask how he got into such a situation in the first place (though highly unlikely, it is possible he was innocent in it). But even in this most extreme case I would say the more admirable action would be to stand up for what is right, while being as ready as possible to deal with the outcome.
On the subject of lying, biblically the purpose of the act determines whether it is wrong, and in fact whether it should be called a lie or not.
It is odd that I have not heard anyone mention the case of Elisha in this issue. It was really a "These are not the droids you are looking for" scenario: he stood in front of the city of Dothan, and said "This is not Dothan, I will take you to Dothan." and took them to Samaria: and God supernaturally made an army believe it.
Another time when God aided in subterfuge was Husham: he pretended to be Absalom's friend and to give him counsel against David, and the Bible says that God had appointed that his subterfuge would prevail (II Samuel 17). Then there was the time when God made people hear an army that wasn't there, and the time when Jesus appeared in another form, for the express purpose of making his disciples think he was someone else (apparently only to have a better talk with them).
Something to note is that while the Bible talks of lying a lot, none of these examples are called lying. I believe biblically the accusation of lying should be reserved for the intent to do wrong: "A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; - Proverbs 26:28" does not reasonably apply to anything else. Withholding knowledge someone has a right to would fall in this category whether one said something untrue or not (in Hebrew the connotations of "lying" have to do with failing, disappointing, and proving untrustworthy).
Of course these situations rarely consist of "bare bones" though. If the motives of the husband are to avoid his wife being angry at him I would say this is putting his comfort over his family. After all, "If, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. - 1 Peter 2:20".
If on the other hand he felt his wife would be hurt and devastated and would feel like she has to compete, or if his secret wife feels she would be an intruder or causing strife and pain, it would be more complicated. But the husband still has the responsibility to try to build up good relationships, rather than helping further the problem. Secrecy is just leaving the problem unsolved anyway.
On the third hand (...) if he has good reason to believe his wife will do a crime such as divorce, adultery, or murdering his other wife, there could be more understanding, though one must ask how he got into such a situation in the first place (though highly unlikely, it is possible he was innocent in it). But even in this most extreme case I would say the more admirable action would be to stand up for what is right, while being as ready as possible to deal with the outcome.
On the subject of lying, biblically the purpose of the act determines whether it is wrong, and in fact whether it should be called a lie or not.
It is odd that I have not heard anyone mention the case of Elisha in this issue. It was really a "These are not the droids you are looking for" scenario: he stood in front of the city of Dothan, and said "This is not Dothan, I will take you to Dothan." and took them to Samaria: and God supernaturally made an army believe it.
Another time when God aided in subterfuge was Husham: he pretended to be Absalom's friend and to give him counsel against David, and the Bible says that God had appointed that his subterfuge would prevail (II Samuel 17). Then there was the time when God made people hear an army that wasn't there, and the time when Jesus appeared in another form, for the express purpose of making his disciples think he was someone else (apparently only to have a better talk with them).
Something to note is that while the Bible talks of lying a lot, none of these examples are called lying. I believe biblically the accusation of lying should be reserved for the intent to do wrong: "A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; - Proverbs 26:28" does not reasonably apply to anything else. Withholding knowledge someone has a right to would fall in this category whether one said something untrue or not (in Hebrew the connotations of "lying" have to do with failing, disappointing, and proving untrustworthy).