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Marriage to a second wife and the first doesn't know

Patrick Lauser said:
On the subject of lying, biblically the purpose of the act determines whether it is wrong, and in fact whether it should be called a lie or not.
It is odd that I have not heard anyone mention the case of Elisha in this issue. It was really a "These are not the droids you are looking for" scenario: he stood in front of the city of Dothan, and said "This is not Dothan, I will take you to Dothan." and took them to Samaria: and God supernaturally made an army believe it.
Another time when God aided in subterfuge was Husham: he pretended to be Absalom's friend and to give him counsel against David, and the Bible says that God had appointed that his subterfuge would prevail (II Samuel 17). Then there was the time when God made people hear an army that wasn't there, and the time when Jesus appeared in another form, for the express purpose of making his disciples think he was someone else (apparently only to have a better talk with them).

Something to note is that while the Bible talks of lying a lot, none of these examples are called lying. I believe biblically the accusation of lying should be reserved for the intent to do wrong: "A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; - Proverbs 26:28" does not reasonably apply to anything else. Withholding knowledge someone has a right to would fall in this category whether one said something untrue or not (in Hebrew the connotations of "lying" have to do with failing, disappointing, and proving untrustworthy).
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I can see that God might not have a big problem with lying in matters of war, when you're deceiving someone in order to justly kill them. But aside from that scenario I would step very carefully about justifying lies. Lying is condemned in extremely strong terms in the NT. And people have a very good ability to fool themselves that their lies were for a 'good reason' or 'no big deal'.
 
rockfox said:
I can see that God might not have a big problem with lying in matters of war, when you're deceiving someone in order to justly kill them. But aside from that scenario I would step very carefully about justifying lies. Lying is condemned in extremely strong terms in the NT. And people have a very good ability to fool themselves that their lies were for a 'good reason' or 'no big deal'.
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I agree, I guess I would just want to make sure we are defining it correctly acording to God’s Word, like we do marriage and adultery.
 
Patricia C said:
I have heard many of the men talk about wanting and believing they are supposed to have more than one wife.

Here is my question:
Should a husband take a second wife and leave his first wife in the dark because she doesn't agree with his views?
Now the husband and 1st wife have a great marriage but she does not agree at all with polygyny. The second wife would have to agree that the union would have to be strictly kept a secret. Do you think this is an acceptable union?
I look forward to your responses.
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No because we should be walking in truth. If a husband really loves his wife how could he lie to that person on such a grand scale. Just imagine her pain and humiliation. If the husband is supposed to represent the Messiah he would not lie or intentionally hurt his wife. Instead pray and see if the Lord would work on her to do His will.... And maybe the husband would need to learn patience and see if that is what the Lord's plan is for them. It's not for everyone. Just my thoughts...
 
If you think you're supposed to take a second woman as a wife, take her as a wife. If you think you're supposed to start having sex with another woman in your free time without telling anyone else, there's another word for that.
 
Guys, all the blah-blah about justified lying and cherry-picked bible examples is simply irrelevant to the OP. Are you an honorable man or not, or do you care? What's your working definition of the term "chicken shit"?

We have to deal with real cases here, where families blow up over lies and betrayals. Honesty is fundamental to any successful relationship (that is actually successful, not just "appears successful on the surface because people involved don't know what's really going on"). Zec nailed it in his response: The woman who agrees to be your mistress (oh, I'm sorry - "second wife") on those terms is dishonest and therefore dangerous. She'll join you in lying to your wife to get what she wants now, and she'll lie to you to get something else she wants later. Go that route and you deserve what you get.

Make whatever abstract arguments (excuses) you want to if that's the highest and best use of your time, but if you are interested in succeeding as a plural husband, or just being a man of honor, quit thinking about how you can get away with this without telling your first wife. Nothing good is going to come of that.
 
Are some of us “chicken shit”s for discussing a hypothetical situation and what constitutes the sin in that situation? No body, thus far, has condoned the idea of secret wives, as far as i can tell.
 
You tell me. I just asked for a definition.

I'm curious: Why would you jump past my initial assertion about the relevance of the extended flogging of the hypothetical to the OP to question my motives for asking for a definition (and then ignore the other two paragraphs in that post, which also had to do with relevance)? Will we at some point get to actually discuss relevance?

I already said what I think about people who go off on hypothetical wanderings in response to a practical question: If that's the highest and best use of your time, knock yourself out.
 
Two points after a night's sleep:

1. The terms "chicken shit" and "dishonorable" are reserved for the guy who would put up a second woman as a fake wife and lie about it to his first wife (and where are the children in that), not members of this forum that want to discuss a topic. My critique for the members is for all of us to ask ourselves why we're here and what's the best use of our limited time here.

2. The question in the OP is exactly the sort of thing that bigamy laws are designed to prevent. For those of us who would like to see bigamy decriminalized, even most of us would acknowledge this kind of polygamy (multiple women without knowledge of each other) as punishable as fraud. The last guy I'm aware of that was convicted of bigamy in Texas was a guy who was divorcing (or getting divorced by) his first wife, got involved with a second woman, and married her legally while he was in the process of reconciling with his first wife, and thought he could get away with not telling either one. Genius. It was one wife who noticed some unaccounted for checks drawn on the joint account that discovered the arrangement and blew the whistle. I believe now he's single. Serves him right.
 
Patricia C said:
Should a husband take a second wife and leave his first wife in the dark because she doesn't agree with his views?
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SHOULD a husband do this?...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Is it within his rights to do so and therefore "technically" not a sin?...I believe so...BUT, in my opinion, that's irrelevant as the question is "Should" he. It may be permissible for him to do so, but, in my experience in adding a second wife a couple years ago...it's a completely stupid, idiotic, and selfish way to go about doing so. It's certainly not profitable nor beneficial to the parties involved...ESPECIALLY the first wife given how difficult this situation is to begin with for her. Are you kidding me??? Heck! ESPECIALLY for the second wife as well. In my experience, there's already concessions made on behalf of the second wife in this process and you want to throw on top of that some secret marriage that the VERY family she's becoming a part of can't know about? Are you kidding me?!?! And while I'm at it....as the husband to two women...why in the world would you want to make this change more difficult than it already is? Trust me, you're plate will be full enough. There's no reason to make the journey more difficult. Soooo......SHOULD a husband marry a second in secret...ummm....NO!!!! To each their own, but I'd think this man to be an idiot for doing so and my heart would break for the broken lives that would soon follow.

Patricia C said:
Now the husband and 1st wife have a great marriage but she does not agree at all with polygyny.
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This was KINDA my situation. My 1st didn't disagree with polygamy, but certainly didn't want it to say the least. But I followed where God was leading me and, in turn, both my women followed me in turn. They're both rather remarkable like that! I am truly blessed! :) But to address the specific picture you're painting here...does a husband need a wife's approval to marry a second?...in my opinion, nope. Not at all. But to skirt around dealing with the first wife and her disapproval by marrying a second in secret...I could only say one thing to that...COWARD! What kind of man/husband/leader are you? It may not technically be a sin, in my opinion, but I don't FOR THE LIFE OF ME see how you navigate those waters without ultimately sinning. I have not issue moving forward with a second marriage when the 1st doesn't agree or want it, but be a man for crying out loud. If that's where God is leading you, than follow. That was the case with me...having to completely trust God I wasn't going to lose my 1st in the process. And let me tell you, I was terrified...shitting bricks...and on my knees praying for her and that I wouldn't lose her.

Patricia C said:
The second wife would have to agree that the union would have to be strictly kept a secret.
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I like that you put "agree" here. That stands out to me and is VERY important, in my opinion. I can't imagine someone is holding a gun to her head forcing her into marriage, so...yeah...she'd have to agree to this "secret" marriage. And if she does, she's just about as much of an idiot as the husband she's marrying. She'll not only get what she deserves at that point, but come to regret it very soon as well.

Patricia C said:
Do you think this is an acceptable union?
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Acceptable? I mean...if you mean...are the bare minimum requirements met to call this a marriage?...sure, I guess so. I'll concede that. But it would be a rather stupid way to go about it. If by "acceptable", you mean is this a profitable and loving way to go about taking a second wife...ummm...I think you know my answer to that already. :)........................................................................but just in case you don't, so I'm clear....the answer is HELL NO!!!!

Just my personal opinion on the matter. :D Peace out! :p:cool:;)
 
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Word.

This is worthy of a standing ovation (all rise!):
Isaac said:
Be a man for crying out loud.
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Or listen to Paul addressing the Corinthians:
Quit you like men.
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Either way, one of the foundational observations of this 'movement' is that God appears to be raising up a generation of men of a particular type, and it ain't the cheatin type.

I respectfully disagree with my brother Isaac re the issue of whether a man is "within his rights" to hide a second woman from his wife and have it not be a sin. The NT says too much about truth, love, and the nature of the relationship between a husband and a wife to weasel out of that one. (But I still love you, Isaac! :))

This ministry and this culture in which we operate need more men who understand what God expects of men to rise up and do what men are supposed to do the way men are supposed to do it. Let's focus on that and leave manipulation and deception to others.
 
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