Beautiful!
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Marrying non-believers versus young believers
- Thread starter DeathIsNotTheEnd
- Start date
Wow, thank you all for the responses! Great points.
I had always been told that not being unequally yoked meant that was that. But then, God calls Hosea to marry a prostitute, Samson married Delilah (which was certainly foolish) but with no impact to the status of his Nazarite vow and receiving God's blessing. And I seem to think there are other examples. So unequally yoked cannot be a simple black and white thing... at the least, there are exceptions. I would be curious to know what you guys think of the implication of a non believer being a possible temple for an evil spirit, and how sex with one may thus be sharing the temple of an idol, so to speak?
I had always been told that not being unequally yoked meant that was that. But then, God calls Hosea to marry a prostitute, Samson married Delilah (which was certainly foolish) but with no impact to the status of his Nazarite vow and receiving God's blessing. And I seem to think there are other examples. So unequally yoked cannot be a simple black and white thing... at the least, there are exceptions. I would be curious to know what you guys think of the implication of a non believer being a possible temple for an evil spirit, and how sex with one may thus be sharing the temple of an idol, so to speak?
Hey Steve, I’m not getting this statement. It almost sounds like taking the car out for a test drive for a year before buying the car. If you don’t buy the car, then you’ve put a lot of miles on the car that shouldn’t be there.
I can understand (not necessarily agree or disagree with) having a potential wife live under your roof for a year. That would give you and her time to see how things jelled with the family. But if all marital rights were added in (conjugal rights included) and after a year, she is kicked to the curb, I see that as flat wrong and possibly come under the commandments of stealing. Being that her chastity was taken away from her and cause a biblical issue for the future husband.
So I’d just like you to clarify what you meant.
When an ox drover selects a couple of calves to train up as oxen he tries to pick a couple that are well matched. You want ones of the same disposition, size, strength and even look. Otherwise you will have trouble in their instruction. And when working they will tend to wonder off course to the direction of the weak side. That's no good when plowing a field or running down the lane and will cause no end of trouble in poor results and extra work for the handler.
For a scriptural example of that, consider the OT prohibition of marrying foreign wives (Deut 7:3, Ex 34:15-16) and how the men left the faith to follow other gods as a result. To use a NT allusion: left the narrow path.
There is also the prohibition of plowing with a donkey and ox yoked together (Deut 22:10).
Ultimately, you will be the spiritual head of your wife, you are wise to make sure she will be following you. And that doesn't just apply to marrying non-Christians. Many Christian's are more willing to follow tradition or some book than the truth. Too often they will make emotions the arbiter of truth against all else.
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And if she had no chastity to begin with?
I would think the same ethics would apply. My understanding is that certain aspects of marriage are off limits until the commitment (covenant as you will) is made. Otherwise, I see no difference than being in the world.
Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
We are called out to be different. Sometimes, it can be difficult. But our ethical behavior and integrity should come from Godly standards, not intermingled with earthly standards.
Well on this item, there church is no different than the world.
Would you buy a used car without taking it for at least a short test drive?
I agree in application, the church in many aspects are no different from the world. But in scripture, it says to not be of this world. If we are no different from the world, then the only thing we need to do us ask for forgiveness, get our spiritual ‘Fire Insurance’ policy, and live a life of fun, sin, unrighteousness, or whatever we want.
Even on an earthly basis, commitment, honor, ethics, etc. play a huge part of the people God has called us to be.
As far as buying a car without test driving it, that would be the perfect analogy of my wife and me. Frankly speaking, it’s worked out quite well. And just because we can do a thing, doesn’t mean we should do a thing. Paul proved that a snake bite wouldn’t kill him, but I doubt he purposely picked up that snake to prove that point.
I was thinking about this, my ex and I did take test drives before we got married. My wife now, she and I did not. My ex didn’t see any problem with making out with other men while we were married. My present wife is totally dedicated to us.
As a candidate for being brought into a relationship for a plural union, my personal opinion, I would want her to be dedicated to me and me only. Eliminating all thoughts of “If this doesn’t work out......”
Just my opinion, not scripturally based.
I mean, speaking for myself, I don't know that I could marry someone who was previously divorced (whether in the legal cultural sense of the word, or simply being separated from her first husband whom she slept with). Not that I think it shouldn't be done, but it is something I know I myself would not be able to do, short of a miraculous intervention from the Holy Spirit. Which He may very well do... perhaps as I write this He is laughing at me and planning to bring a former prostitute along and ask me to take her as my wife! But not unless He REALLY clearly directs me. But for you, Philip, I can only applaud you and admire your strength. Clearly God made you with that capability and brought your wife to you knowing that you would be able to guide and cherish her and forgive her past (I think that's what I'm reading from your message, forgive me if I am assuming something you did not mean!). God bless you! I wish I had your strength.
But perhaps that passage is written for someone like me, who would surely struggle greatly with the idea.
And yeah, I would only marry someone who had that dedication to me and me alone. I would only pursue someone if it was for potential marriage, and I would only seek potential marriage with someone who was devoted to only me.
And you mention not having scriptural backing for that, but I think Christ asks that of us all over scripture...
I’ve mentioned in other posts, my wife is a survivor of domestic abuse. Her ex did time for his actions that he did to his girlfriend after my wife. So, my wife went thru hell.I mean, speaking for myself, I don't know that I could marry someone who was previously divorced (whether in the legal cultural sense of the word, or simply being separated from her first husband whom she slept with). Not that I think it shouldn't be done, but it is something I know I myself would not be able to do, short of a miraculous intervention from the Holy Spirit. Which He may very well do... perhaps as I write this He is laughing at me and planning to bring a former prostitute along and ask me to take her as my wife! But not unless He REALLY clearly directs me. But for you, Philip, I can only applaud you and admire your strength. Clearly God made you with that capability and brought your wife to you knowing that you would be able to guide and cherish her and forgive her past (I think that's what I'm reading from your message, forgive me if I am assuming something you did not mean!). God bless you! I wish I had your strength.
But perhaps that passage is written for someone like me, who would surely struggle greatly with the idea.
And yeah, I would only marry someone who had that dedication to me and me alone. I would only pursue someone if it was for potential marriage, and I would only seek potential marriage with someone who was devoted to only me.
And you mention not having scriptural backing for that, but I think Christ asks that of us all over scripture...
One thought I’ve had, and I don’t know if it is from God or just my heart, I’m 62 now and I see a lot of women in the church Within ten years of my age that will have a difficult time finding a Godly man, a covering. Although they are past the child bearing age, I still wonder how God wants us to react/interact with these women. The whole Isaiah 4:1 thing. Heck, women my age still have another 30 years of life left. Does God want them to live their lives out alone (as old maids) or be brought into a caring/loving environment? Knowing that in a monogamous society they will not get the cream of the crop.
The standard Western wedding vows are all nice and sweet, but they are nothing more than the intentions of that moment. They might as well be prefaced with “Until I no longer feel like it, I promise to.....”
If you marry someone who you have known for a while, you know how their walk is (assuming that they haven’t been hiding things).
If you meet someone who has been in fellowship with others for a period of time, you can get an idea from them how she has been walking.
If she just became a believer, or worse yet she has been a very nominal believer for a long time, you have no clue how well she will stay the course. But once you have committed to her, you are stuck with whoever she becomes.
Many, male or female, have married in haste and repented at leisure.
A two year courtship could alleviate much of that gamble, but nobody does.
I know a man who married a girl that was from the same spiritual background as his wife and himself. She said all the right things and everything looked good. In fact, I truly believe that YHWH brought them together.
The relationship proceeded to yo-yo and lasted that way for years. The couple sacrificed greatly for her, but eventually she left.
The eye-opener was when she admitted that she had walked down the aisle believing that he was no different than the other men in her life and that someday his real self would show up and she would boogie. She had married under a concubine mentality (I will stay married until x) and he had no clue. Who stole from who?
So yes, if she doesn’t have a history of living the way that you are living, a lease or a specific contract protects either party.
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Never says he married her. Nor does it say he had sex with her (although that's highly probable, given that it's the most logical way for her to know she could get him exhausted enough to fall asleep in her lap when she wanted to). He also slept with at least one prostitute. All with no change to the status of his Nazarite vow etc. Not that we should copy, but it is interesting.
Also interesting was touching the lion’s carcass. Didn’t faze him. I don’t know if he drank strong drink or not, but the ONLY thing was cutting the hair. In fact, that’s the only thing that he admitted to Delilah could do it.
Of course, he did mess up his life by being willful. He just didn’t lose his strength.
Oh, please dont get me wrong guys I was not trying to say that Samson did great or anything. I was just saying that I think there are examples enough in the Bible that marriage with a non-believer is not, in and of itself, prohibited. Do you agree or disagree, Im confused?
Again, I still know my own stance, I just am poling the audience
Again, I still know my own stance, I just am poling the audience
Im sorry to hear that man. Again, please do not take what I said as judgement. I meant it as a compliment. Your wife DOES deserve to be loved, to be rescued and brought out of darkness into the warm light of family. As do many single women, as you note. I was saying that I, to my slight shame, don't know that I am capable of that, and so I admire your strength and love for her
I like the idea of a history to draw on. But the only recent divorce in a church I used to attend went much the same way as Steve describes. Long history with the same spiritual background. But she jetted and her parents of the same faith aided and abetted the matter. And there really wasn't any cause other than life was tough, he unattractive, and her unsubmissive.
That last eye-opener, that's going to be true more often than not. Maybe not the 'real self show up' but the willingness to walk away part. Regardless what is said in the vows.
Part of the problem here is if you grew up in your present faith it may well not really be yours. You just inherited it. This is not the case for a true convert (of the die to self variety).
Don’t worry, no offense was taken. We’re good. I just wanted to take a minute to share some things with you.Im sorry to hear that man. Again, please do not take what I said as judgement. I meant it as a compliment. Your wife DOES deserve to be loved, to be rescued and brought out of darkness into the warm light of family. As do many single women, as you note. I was saying that I, to my slight shame, don't know that I am capable of that, and so I admire your strength and love for her
My experience, sad to say, is that I have been married to a baby Christian, a borderline agnostic, and also to a lifelong Christian. In that order. (Yeah I made some dumb choices in my youth.)
The baby Christian brought a LOT of feminist ideas with her and refused anything that contradicted them. The borderline agnostic was just wanting to have fun for a while then left when things got boring. The lifelong Christian wanted a husband with the same morals, values, and worldview that she was raised with so she could trust submitting to him.
The baby Christian and I knew each other for 2 years before we married and that marriage lasted a year. The borderline agnostic and I knew each other for a few months before we were married. That marriage lasted a year. The lifelong Christian and I knew each other for 2 years before were were married. Our marriage is still going strong for over 11 years now.
Although my wife's sister was raised by the same parents, attends the same church, and goes to every service she is a very wordly person.
I think that it comes down to how serious a woman is about her faith. Not someone that simply talks about God a lot or knows her bible verses, but if she is serious enough to leave the culture of the world behind and to submit, learn, and grow. Then she is marriage material.
The baby Christian brought a LOT of feminist ideas with her and refused anything that contradicted them. The borderline agnostic was just wanting to have fun for a while then left when things got boring. The lifelong Christian wanted a husband with the same morals, values, and worldview that she was raised with so she could trust submitting to him.
The baby Christian and I knew each other for 2 years before we married and that marriage lasted a year. The borderline agnostic and I knew each other for a few months before we were married. That marriage lasted a year. The lifelong Christian and I knew each other for 2 years before were were married. Our marriage is still going strong for over 11 years now.
Although my wife's sister was raised by the same parents, attends the same church, and goes to every service she is a very wordly person.
I think that it comes down to how serious a woman is about her faith. Not someone that simply talks about God a lot or knows her bible verses, but if she is serious enough to leave the culture of the world behind and to submit, learn, and grow. Then she is marriage material.
I totally agree with your comment@mage, about a woman needing to be prepared to leave the culture of the world behind. However, I would add that it is this worldly culture regarding monogamy-only that is pervasive in the church which she will be up against, and will need to be equally prepared to leave behind.