Marrying non-believers versus young believers

[Mage]

However, I would add that it is this worldly culture regarding monogamy-only that is pervasive in the church which she will be up against, and will need to be equally prepared to leave behind.

I agree.

The sad truth is that the teachings of this world have infiltrated the church. I think there will come a time when a choice needs to be made between following the teachings of God and following the teachings of the church. In my experience I think there will be many within the church that will choose the church over God because it is closer to the world than God, or because they are more comfortable with the church than God, or they are ignorant and believe the church and God teach the same thing.

Though there are some that will choose God over the church. Both young Christians and lifelong Christians.

 

[rockfox]

My experience, sad to say, is that I have been married to a baby Christian, a borderline agnostic, and also to a lifelong Christian. In that order. (Yeah I made some dumb choices in my youth.)

The baby Christian brought a LOT of feminist ideas with her and refused anything that contradicted them. The borderline agnostic was just wanting to have fun for a while then left when things got boring. The lifelong Christian wanted a husband with the same morals, values, and worldview that she was raised with so she could trust submitting to him.

The baby Christian and I knew each other for 2 years before we married and that marriage lasted a year. The borderline agnostic and I knew each other for a few months before we were married. That marriage lasted a year. The lifelong Christian and I knew each other for 2 years before were were married. Our marriage is still going strong for over 11 years now.

Although my wife's sister was raised by the same parents, attends the same church, and goes to every service she is a very wordly person.

I think that it comes down to how serious a woman is about her faith. Not someone that simply talks about God a lot or knows her bible verses, but if she is serious enough to leave the culture of the world behind and to submit, learn, and grow. Then she is marriage material.

Thank you for that report! How did the 3rd wife handle the polygamy issue coming up?

If you marry a Christian and don't try to lead her to things which contradict her raised traditions, I can see how maybe things might go smoother than is warranted.

I think there will come a time when a choice needs to be made between following the teachings of God and following the teachings of the church.

I assure you we are already there. It just depends how deep you dive into scripture. As many here can testify.

 

[Pacman]

I agree.

The sad truth is that the teachings of this world have infiltrated the church. I think there will come a time when a choice needs to be made between following the teachings of God and following the teachings of the church. In my experience I think there will be many within the church that will choose the church over God because it is closer to the world than God, or because they are more comfortable with the church than God, or they are ignorant and believe the church and God teach the same thing.

Though there are some that will choose God over the church. Both young Christians and lifelong Christians.

I think to a large degree we are already there...

 

[The Revolting Man]

I'm confused. It sounds like there's something of a concensus that it's okay to marry a non-believer. Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[Pacman]

I'm confused. It sounds like there's something of a concensus that it's okay to marry a non-believer. Am I misunderstanding something?

I get the impression that the concesus is it’s not forbidden in scripture but probably ill advised. Which I suppose I agree with...

 

[The Revolting Man]

I get the impression that the concesus is it’s not forbidden in scripture but probably ill advised. Which I suppose I agree with...

Huh. I'm a little surprised that this was even debatable. I guess I need to do some research.

 

[frederick]

I'm confused. It sounds like there's something of a concensus that it's okay to marry a non-believer. Am I misunderstanding something?

No consensus here. In 2 Cor. 6:14-16, we are given 5 reasons for the command against being unequally yoked with unbelievers. While 2 Cor. 6:14-16 isn't dealing specifically with marriage, it most certainly includes the marital relationship because this is a relationship which must involve elements of fellowship, communion, accord, and agreement. In v:15 we are asked, "What part/portion has a believer with an unbeliever?" None!

 

[The Revolting Man]

No consensus here. In 2 Cor. 6:14-16, we are given 5 reasons for the command against being unequally yoked with unbelievers. While 2 Cor. 6:14-16 isn't dealing specifically with marriage, it most certainly includes the marital relationship because this is a relationship which must involve elements of fellowship, communion, accord, and agreement. In v:15 we are asked, "What part/portion has a believer with an unbeliever?" None!

Well that's what I thought but the number of things that I thought were self evident that otherwise smart people think are stupid has skyrocketed it lately and I find myself questioning whether I really am the only sane one or not.

 

[frederick]

Uh oh!

I find myself questioning whether I really am the only sane one or not.

 

[Pacman]

No consensus here. In 2 Cor. 6:14-16, we are given 5 reasons for the command against being unequally yoked with unbelievers. While 2 Cor. 6:14-16 isn't dealing specifically with marriage, it most certainly includes the marital relationship because this is a relationship which must involve elements of fellowship, communion, accord, and agreement. In v:15 we are asked, "What part/portion has a believer with an unbeliever?" None!

Well that's what I thought but the number of things that I thought were self evident that otherwise smart people think are stupid has skyrocketed it lately and I find myself questioning whether I really am the only sane one or not.

I think @FollowingHim has it right here it’s not expressly forbidden but it’s a bad idea especially in western culture. I for one would never do it and will strongly advise against it.

 

[Mage]

I'm confused. It sounds like there's something of a concensus that it's okay to marry a non-believer. Am I misunderstanding something?

I hope my personal story didn't give that impression.

 

[Mage]

Thank you for that report! How did the 3rd wife handle the polygamy issue coming up?

If you marry a Christian and don't try to lead her to things which contradict her raised traditions, I can see how maybe things might go smoother than is warranted.

Before we were married, she and I had several discussions about and were both in agreement that scripture trumps culture and traditions, including the church's, on a lot of topics, though polygyny wasn't talked about.

Through out our marriage if one of the pastors at our church said something off I would pull out the bible when we got home and walk through it showing where God stood. For example, one of our pastors has a bad habit of saying "the sin of Adam and Eve", which I would correct when we got home showing that scripture calls it the "sin of Adam" or "the sin of one man".

Polygyny ended up being one of the several topics we walked through scripture on. I showed her what God had designed marriage to actually be and that calling it sinful was coming from the culture. I showed her that God gave David his wives and that God doesn't give a sinful life as a gift, ect.

I also pointed out that while the circumstances around the ending of my 2nd marriage clearly show that I am divorced from her in the eyes of God, the circumstances around the 1st aren’t so clear and in God's eyes I may already have two wives.

She wasn’t terribly surprised, but did struggle with the idea of applying it to us. I think it was due to the classic misunderstandings that I would love her less, etc. and was wanting more information.

After reading through some posts on this forum and talking with the woman here most of her hesitations about it are gone. I think the only thing she is afraid of now is that I may choose someone that will end up not being who she claims to be and using the US laws to try and destroy our family. So we are moving very cautiously.

Now, she will mention to her family and friends a lot that I need or should get a second wife. They usually laugh because they think she's joking but no one knows how serious she actually is.

 

[Mage]

I assure you we are already there. It just depends how deep you dive into scripture. As many here can testify.

I think to a large degree we are already there...

You guys are probably right. We had to search pretty hard for a pastor I wasn't constantly needing to correct when we get home from service. Which the need to search in and of itself speaks volumes.

 

[rockfox]

@Mage I applaud you on your approach to spiritually leading your family in the context of handling sermons with error. And that isn't an unwarranted fear she now has. It is a serious concern and one I perceive too many men take lightly. But neither should she dwell on that fear; awareness is what is important.

My wife also shares that same fear but by virtue of history and teaching she has well learned to put her trust in me and not worry.

 

[rockfox]

When an ox drover selects a couple of calves to train up as oxen he tries to pick a couple that are well matched. You want ones of the same disposition, size, strength and even look. Otherwise you will have trouble in their instruction. And when working they will tend to wonder off course to the direction of the weak side. That's no good when plowing a field or running down the lane and will cause no end of trouble in poor results and extra work for the handler.

For a scriptural example of that, consider the OT prohibition of marrying foreign wives (Deut 7:3, Ex 34:15-16) and how the men left the faith to follow other gods as a result. To use a NT allusion: left the narrow path.

There is also the prohibition of plowing with a donkey and ox yoked together (Deut 22:10).

Ultimately, you will be the spiritual head of your wife, you are wise to make sure she will be following you. And that doesn't just apply to marrying non-Christians. Many Christian's are more willing to follow tradition or some book than the truth. Too often they will make emotions the arbiter of truth against all else.

I was thinking about this and I realized it is probably wrong. I mean, it sounds great theologically. But practically just doesn't work. Not with the current state of the church.

What is important is finding a woman (regardless of her religion) who will follow you. A bidable, teachable woman who wants to please you and come under your authority and leadership. And radically so. To forsake her will as you do to Christ.

If she's not a Christian, such a woman will become one and by virtue of you bringing her to it will all the more look to you as her spiritual mentor (and to avoid unequally yoked, this should happen before becoming married). If she happens to already be a Christian all the better, but she'll be one who follows and submits.

But if she's not that and a Christian, she won't be submitting, no matter how much scripture teaches otherwise. And she'll want to hold her ideas, tradition, feelings, or worldly opinions over yours.

The only bugaboo for either one is navigating the end of the honeymoon phase and ensuring going in she sees you as having authority by virtue of your role rather than following you simply out of eros.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I was thinking about this and I realized it is probably wrong. I mean, it sounds great theologically. But practically just doesn't work. Not with the current state of the church.

What is important is finding a woman (regardless of her religion) who will follow you. A bidable, teachable woman who wants to please you and come under your authority and leadership. And radically so. To forsake her will as you do to Christ.

If she's not a Christian, such a woman will become one and by virtue of you bringing her to it will all the more look to you as her spiritual mentor (and to avoid unequally yoked, this should happen before becoming married). If she happens to already be a Christian all the better, but she'll be one who follows and submits.

But if she's not that and a Christian, she won't be submitting, no matter how much scripture teaches otherwise. And she'll want to hold her ideas, tradition, feelings, or worldly opinions over yours.

The only bugaboo for either one is navigating the end of the honeymoon phase and ensuring going in she sees you as having authority by virtue of your role rather than following you simply out of eros.

There are far too many people on this forum willing to argue for you to be arguing with yourself.

 

[Mage]

@Mage I applaud you on your approach to spiritually leading your family in the context of handling sermons with error.

Thank you.

My wife also shares that same fear but by virtue of history and teaching she has well learned to put her trust in me and not worry.

How did your wife handle the concept of biblical polygyny?

 

[FollowingHim]

I think @FollowingHim has it right here it’s not expressly forbidden but it’s a bad idea especially in western culture. I for one would never do it and will strongly advise against it.

I did not say it's not expressly forbidden. I believe it is forbidden for Christians as @frederick has outlined - this is a later instruction, so it does not contradict the fact that Israelites could marry captured women. Nor is it incompatible with the idea of marrying captured women - if they converted during the 30-day courting period. And it's particularly important to follow in Western culture, while it was less of a concern in ancient Israel hence the lack of a prohibition in Torah.

In the Qur'an, this issue is grappled with because Islam is fundamentally militant and quite keen on the idea of capturing wives... Their policy is that a Muslim man can marry any Muslim, Christian or Jew, but not a pagan, and there is an expectation that if they marry a Christian or a Jew she will ultimately convert to Islam. I am not in any way promoting this theology as correct! But it is an interesting practical application of these basic principles. In other words, taking a historical cultural perspective, I take this to mean that a Muslim's wife must have a basic foundation of common religious belief to him (monotheism, patriarchy etc), and that is sufficient for starters, with the expectation that she will follow his headship ultimately. That is very similar to @rockfox's statement that it is more important to find a submissive wife who will follow your leadership, than one who nominally claims to be Christian but is fundamentally worldly. Which shows it's a pragmatic, logical position that others have come to also - whether or not it agrees with scripture being a different matter, I just find the parallels interesting.

 

[rockfox]

How did your wife handle the concept of biblical polygyny?

I had been studying the issue of divorce and came to the realization from scripture poly was acceptable and shared that. She accepted it but wasn't interested for it in her life and I wasn't pushing it. A year or three later she brought up that she thought it would be a good idea for us.

I may have teased her about poly in the mean time.

Surprisingly that happened in the middle of a contentious period of our marriage; which would take a couple more years for me to sort out.

Which actually brings me back on topic because that contentious period began not too long after we both became Christians. So when I compare my Christian wife vs. my unbelieving wife it doesn't reflect well on the idea one should marry a Christian. I've long wondered why the Christian woman who decided to obey the scriptures and become more submissive actually became dramatically less so. But I've recently decided it was probably happenstance timing with the end of the honeymoon period.

 

[Cap]

Well that's what I thought but the number of things that I thought were self evident that otherwise smart people think are stupid has skyrocketed it lately and I find myself questioning whether I really am the only sane one or not.

It's not always cut and dry. How would one know a 'Christian' woman really is a Christian, and is cut out for a biblical family. And how would one know a non believer rejects God until you have had a chance to get to know them. All depends on God's call on one's life.

Can't help you on the sane part.