Support What to do when spouse rejects her faith

[Sean Miller]

thank you everyone. Ill update soon, traveling for work now. Please pray for her as well me in how to proceed. She is willing to stay at the moment, but she refuses to discuss with me anything until I read these books, which I dont have time for now or the courage as I do not want my faith moved either!!

 

[Sean Miller]

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


1Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

1Co 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.


Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


Even God will respect her free-will. However, you have the spiritual authority to bind the spiritual (i.e. demon) force that has deceived her. You must fight this in the realm of the Spirit, through prayer; and in the flesh with patience, and love.

You have the authority and the right to demand (in the realm of the spirit) that the voices of the enemy be silent and that she be granted a clear mind with which to choose. It is up to her to choose (hopefully without demonic pressure) whether to follow your leadership or not. Your best weapon is to bind the ‘spiritual opposition’ and offer love and reason until you can determine her heart's free-will. If she of a free and willing mind makes this choice, you cannot stop her. However, when the voices of the spiritual opposition are silenced, she may then choose truth. Then if a demon is present, it can be cast out. You, as head, have the right to maintain the spiritual climate of your domain.

If you insist on a proper spiritual climate in your home and she departs, that’s on her, spiritually speaking. If she has a legal marriage and a lawyer and chooses divorce, it will take all of your integrity in the realm of the Spirit to do the right thing. I will pray for you. May you find wisdom and strength through this. May you find the proper understanding and obtain direction from the Holy Spirit.

Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell is very good and gives extensive evidence for faith and the veracity of the scripture. God is looking for faith. He does not give PROOF but does give evidence that makes faith a logical choice.

Faith without hisorical proof is not of interest to her, only proven facts of the bible, she refuses to have blind faith she tells me. Anyone who discusses it she refuses unless they read the books she did. She is book smart, only accepts what can be proven and refuses anything that can not. This is not new, shes always been this way, she was only a christian 5 years and the whole time its been a battle for both of us, her ups and downs and my trying to not loose my paitents and keep loving and teaching, rarely she listened to me but more so to what she read and watched.... sigh")

 

[frederick]

Faith without hisorical proof is not of interest to her, only proven facts of the bible, she refuses to have blind faith she tells me. Anyone who discusses it she refuses unless they read the books she did. She is book smart, only accepts what can be proven and refuses anything that can not. This is not new, shes always been this way, she was only a christian 5 years and the whole time its been a battle for both of us, her ups and downs and my trying to not loose my paitents and keep loving and teaching, rarely she listened to me but more so to what she read and watched.... sigh")

There are quite a few good bible ministry sites; with written and/or video material, that deal with e.g. archaeology, creation, Israel, etc., that she might find helpful but it seems from what you've written here she wants to go the way her books have led her. Being patient is essential in your responses.

 

[rockfox]

Faith without hisorical proof is not of interest to her, only proven facts of the bible, she refuses to have blind faith she tells me. Anyone who discusses it she refuses unless they read the books she did. She is book smart, only accepts what can be proven and refuses anything that can not. This is not new, shes always been this way, she was only a christian 5 years and the whole time its been a battle for both of us, her ups and downs and my trying to not loose my paitents and keep loving and teaching, rarely she listened to me but more so to what she read and watched.... sigh")

So there is one of your root causes: she never accepted you as her spiritual authority, her spiritual leader.

Anyone can write a book, that doesn't make them an authority or right. You can find books that argue any side of a matter. What makes a modern book more of an authority than one written 2000 years closer to the event itself?

Even if you defeat her in arguing about this issue, it doesn't change the core dynamic.

or the courage as I do not want my faith moved either!!

You're going to have to muster the courage if you want to lead her.

But I'll warn you, you may not be able to logic her out of this. It is possible she found your way of life offensive to her emotions, so she went looking and found justification for why the foundation for your way of life was wrong. Argument from feelings. The root problem isn't this argument or that, but her self-will.

So if you're concerned for your own faith, it may be wise to not engage this subject then and work on strengthening your and your other wife's faith. In other words, cut your losses.

But if you do choose to engage and want help, feel free to make up a forum post. I'm happy to help rebut arguments from the books. I looked at the synopsis's. It's just a modern rehash of critical theory combined with finding supposed contradictions in the scriptures with a good helping of Paul corrupted Christianity. Those have overthrown the faith of many, so it's not a baseless concern. But neither do they bother me, as I've never found their arguments particularly convincing; usually because they lack depth of theological understanding while grasping at contradictions that just aren't there.

 

[cnystrom]

So that said, my 1st wife has officially denounced her faith in Christ and the written scriptures, due to her research for her book she has come to the attention of reading Paul and Jesus by Jams D. Tabor. As well as reading Jesus Interrupted by Bart D. Ehrman.

From my understanding these men are agnostic and they take the position that the NT and most of it, based on history of that era, is inaccurate, not authentic and plagiarized by writers who were not the noted authors.

Okay so in a nut shell, since she no longer accepts Christ or the teachings in the NT to be historically accurate she will no longer live by it.

You have nothing to fear brother. Truth is on your side. Think of this as an opportunity to grow your faith. Read the books and debunk them.

The first review of "Paul and Jesus" on Amazon claims that in chapter 2 the author does not believe that Jesus was resurrected and that he was re-buried in advance. What could be more stupid?

The truth is your mind can find whatever your heart is looking for no matter how ridiculous it is.

If you get stuck on anything we are here for you.

They may be new books, but they are not new ideas or new information.

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

Faith without hisorical proof is not of interest to her, only proven facts of the bible, she refuses to have blind faith she tells me. Anyone who discusses it she refuses unless they read the books she did. She is book smart, only accepts what can be proven and refuses anything that can not. This is not new, shes always been this way, she was only a christian 5 years and the whole time its been a battle for both of us, her ups and downs and my trying to not loose my paitents and keep loving and teaching, rarely she listened to me but more so to what she read and watched.... sigh")

@Sean,
Perhaps these would be of help and interest for your wife. Lee Strobel faced something similar with his wife. The book Is God Dead and the movie "The Case for Christ" as a result of his search for truth and answers are both excellent resources for you and your wife. The second link is the trailer for the first version of "The Case for Christ" movie. Very Good--I hope you'll take the time. In Lee's situation the tables were opposite of yours. He was the atheist, and his wife became a Christian after they married.

Your Christ-like unconditional love, @Sean Miller will give you the courage to go the distance. You'll have to dig deep, but dig those wells and ask your Father to fill them! I'm praying for you my brother!

"Working to disprove the growing Christian faith of his wife, an investigative journalist chases down the biggest story of all time … with unexpected, life altering results! Starring Mike Vogel, Erika Christensen, Academy Award® winner Faye Dunaway and Academy Award® nominee Robert Forster, THE CASE FOR CHRIST is based on the true-life story of Lee Strobel, author of the best-selling book. - ( Original Title - The Case for Christ )"

 

[eye4them]

@Sean Miller, Despite my comments being phrased as advice, please do not take any of what I say here as advice, but rather as suggestions for things to consider as possibly being applicable to your situation. Consider anything I've said here using much prayer and discernment. Chew any meat you find, and surely spit out the rest!

I think that the degree to which a woman *desires* to follow her man is greatly impacted by how attractive he is to her; this attraction is affected by how he deals with her, how he looks, and how he projects desirable masculine traits. Whatever you can do to improve those things, I would think the more she will desire to follow you.

Some places where improvement might be possible... (which I commonly see lacking in men, myself included)

• Always dress your best (appropriate for the occasion); even just around the house on weekends.
• Be well kempt.
• (Women are visual too, not just men; give her something nice to look at, and a man she can *feel* good about following.)
• Use good sitting, standing, and walking posture; head up, shoulders back, don't slouch.
• Speak with the deepest voice you can reasonably speak with and not have it sound strange. Avoid having your voice go high when asking questions... (Say "Really." and "Really?" and notice how your voice goes up at the end of "Really?"; don't let it go high, just a slightly reduced deepness.)
• Avoid showing any significant amazement or surprise at anything. "Really??!!"
• Speak with a smooth, steady, and calm voice; at an unhurried pace.
• Be assertive, decisive, confident, and Dominant; lead.
• Do not express self doubt. Self doubt is what it is, but don't show it to your subordinates.

It seems from Eph 5 that the earthly marriage and the dynamic between husband and wife is supposed to mirror the relationship between Christ and His ecclesia. So I think the more you are Christ-like, the more your women will be drawn to you. In particular; confidence, leadership, and Dominance.

As for adding a wife, the process can generate a lot of upheaval, and it sounds like your house doesn't need any more of that right now, but rather stabilization.

This is kind of focused on a D/s relationship, but I think there is plenty that is applicable to general masculine Dominance.
https://godsgifttohim.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/answers-from-a-dominant-husband-part-1/

Running some Game might help a lot.
https://www.google.com/search?q=red+pill+game+theory

Also this....

It may be that if you increase her attraction to you, she will simply lose interest in her questions, and just follow you, and accept whatever you say. God be with you, Sean. I am praying for you.

 

[Foxlily]

Be assertive, decisive, confident, and Dominant; lead.

This here covers a plethora of faults (including grooming). Being the opposite of this makes a woman feel like she has to take the lead unless she understands her place as a helpmeet and since most women don't at least in the beginning it can create a problem.

Do not express self doubt. Self doubt is what it is, but don't show it to your subordinates.

This is also true, even with children. But it is a hard one to carry, that's where the need of your helpmeet being as she should is so important.

Having been there myself as a wife, though I didn't go as far as trying to prove the Bible was wrong completely I already knew that was a fallacy, I just chose to ignore the Scripture instead. It is simply rebellion. There was rebellion there to begin with long long long before this ever exploded. Frankly, my rebellion had nothing to do with PM, merely dislike of my situation and not wanting to follow my husbands leadership. Our marriage survived but not without damages that are slow to heal and likely never will.

 

[FollowingHim]

She is willing to stay at the moment, but she refuses to discuss with me anything until I read these books, which I dont have time for now or the courage as I do not want my faith moved either!!

She's willing to stay for now, so relax. Take your time. You don't need to have all the answers today. Love her. Show her that you love her. That will put you on the best basis to move forwards. Do not be the one to instigate anything that pushes her further away.

Now, her not wanting intimacy isn't just about this. Even agnostics and atheists have sex, and they're actually noted for the presence or absence of marriage making no difference to their willingness to do so... So there's no reason for a theological disagreement, in itself, to stop her from wanting to have sex with her husband. There's something else going on too, probably something that's been going on for a long time. Try to understand what this is.

Read the books. Pray lots first and during reading them, but do it. Your job is to guide and lead her. How can you lead her if you don't understand the challenges she is facing? And how will she feel your love if you're not interested in something that means so much to her? You must read them in order to be able to help her overcome this assault. This is you bearing her burdens with her. Yes, it may be scary. Yes, it will probably be difficult. Yes, it does carry the risk of you yourself falling if you are not strong enough. But would you fight someone physically to save her, even though you were risking your own death? Of course. In the same way, you should be willing to jump into this spiritual fight on her side, and not leave her to be defeated for fear of your own safety. So jump into the fight - but make sure you're well armed.

So read them - prayerfully. And as @rockfox said, feel free to start threads here asking for help with any issues you find difficult.

 

[steve]

Another form of bearing one another’s burdens is identificational repentance.
Pray as if the two are kneeling together at the side of your bed, even though she is not there. Identify with her sin/weakness and repent for both of you.

“Father, forgive us for our unbelief. Forgive us for not trusting You......”

You have special authority in seeking forgiveness for your wives and lessening the darkness that the enemy has over them. It’s no magic wand, but it is a powerful tool against the enemy.

 

[frederick]

Awesome counsel!! Thank you Samuel, as we all need these sorts of reminders at times.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Faith without hisorical proof is not of interest to her, only proven facts of the bible, she refuses to have blind faith she tells me. Anyone who discusses it she refuses unless they read the books she did. She is book smart, only accepts what can be proven and refuses anything that can not. This is not new, shes always been this way, she was only a christian 5 years and the whole time its been a battle for both of us, her ups and downs and my trying to not loose my paitents and keep loving and teaching, rarely she listened to me but more so to what she read and watched.... sigh")

I promise you these books will have major flaws that a modicum or digging will expose. They always do. It’s not important thought because she has placed her faith in them and that faith probably can’t be shaken no matter the proof.

 

[FollowingHim]

It’s not important thought because she has placed her faith in them and that faith probably can’t be shaken no matter the proof.

It is worth remembering that maybe 25% of her opinion will be based on logical argument and 75% on emotion. You won't win her around through pure logical argument.
If you win her around, it will be with love - and the direct action of the Holy Spirit.
The logical discussions you have will be part of the setting within which you demonstrate that love and through with the Spirit will work.

 

[Sean Miller]

So there is one of your root causes: she never accepted you as her spiritual authority, her spiritual leader.


But I'll warn you, you may not be able to logic her out of this. It is possible she found your way of life offensive to her emotions, so she went looking and found justification for why the foundation for your way of life was wrong. Argument from feelings. The root problem isn't this argument or that, but her self-will.

Thanks for your feeback, I think you hit the nail on the head here. She has always been up and down with her faith but never to this point. She has a forgiveness problem and definitely has not forgiven me for breaking a vow of monogamy, she accepted it biblically, but never "wanted it". So I do think this plays a factor but I do not think it's the root by any means.

So if you're concerned for your own faith, it may be wise to not engage this subject then and work on strengthening your and your other wife's faith. In other words, cut your losses.

I am and I am not, I just do not want to open any doors, however, I did start reading through the Jesus interrupted book and so far don't much agree with his arguments so far.

But if you do choose to engage and want help, feel free to make up a forum post. I'm happy to help rebut arguments from the books. I looked at the synopsis's. It's just a modern rehash of critical theory combined with finding supposed contradictions in the scriptures with a good helping of Paul corrupted Christianity. Those have overthrown the faith of many, so it's not a baseless concern. But neither do they bother me, as I've never found their arguments particularly convincing; usually because they lack depth of theological understanding while grasping at contradictions that just aren't there.

I know there has been similar discussions but I will probably take you up on your suggestion to do this.

 

[Sean Miller]

@Sean,
Perhaps these would be of help and interest for your wife. Lee Strobel faced something similar with his wife. The book Is God Dead and the movie "The Case for Christ" as a result of his search for truth and answers are both excellent resources for you and your wife. The second link is the trailer for the first version of "The Case for Christ" movie. Very Good--I hope you'll take the time. In Lee's situation the tables were opposite of yours. He was the atheist, and his wife became a Christian after they married.

Your Christ-like unconditional love, @Sean Miller will give you the courage to go the distance. You'll have to dig deep, but dig those wells and ask your Father to fill them! I'm praying for you my brother!

"Working to disprove the growing Christian faith of his wife, an investigative journalist chases down the biggest story of all time … with unexpected, life altering results! Starring Mike Vogel, Erika Christensen, Academy Award® winner Faye Dunaway and Academy Award® nominee Robert Forster, THE CASE FOR CHRIST is based on the true-life story of Lee Strobel, author of the best-selling book. - ( Original Title - The Case for Christ )"

Thank you. Yes, we're very familiar and have enjoyed this movie. I have not read the book though.

 

[Sean Miller]

I promise you these books will have major flaws that a modicum or digging will expose. They always do. It’s not important thought because she has placed her faith in them and that faith probably can’t be shaken no matter the proof.

Yeah, I said similar things to her, I think she wants me to expose that, maybe a challenge she has presented to "prove my love" type of thing. Attention seeking along with the emey working in it. See, she was supposed to be doing an apologetics flash card type thing this summer with the kids and this has eleminated that now. She was once passionate about defending the faith and now she's gone full blast the other way! On top of it I told her I didn't want her reading these books when I found out, but she reassured me it would not affect her faith "don't worry" as it was for her book. It hard to discuss anything with her as she's so defensive and I'm honestly quite angry with her, yes, I am fully aware of the fight is not against flesh and blood but that does not change my furry wanting to be released as I attempt to discuss it with her.

 

[Sean Miller]

You have nothing to fear brother. Truth is on your side. Think of this as an opportunity to grow your faith. Read the books and debunk them.

The first review of "Paul and Jesus" on Amazon claims that in chapter 2 the author does not believe that Jesus was resurrected and that he was re-buried in advance. What could be more stupid?

The truth is your mind can find whatever your heart is looking for no matter how ridiculous it is.

If you get stuck on anything we are here for you.

They may be new books, but they are not new ideas or new information.

LOL, I get stuck on things constantly, at times phone conversations would be so much quicker but it's also nice to refer back to what has been said. Thanks for the support.

 

[Sean Miller]

Update :

Thanks everyone for your feedback and prayers! I am very familiar of the red pill movement and for fear of not being "nice" I did not implement some of the important things like mentioned in the post and videos shared on my thread here. I have just stepped up my game, no more "what do you want" or talking in a soft gentle, kind voice. Gosh that sounds like a ass thing to say but honestly being my authoritative self and speaking in a deeper voice and a commanding tone has been good! A bit of a challenge to stay on top of doing because I did it the opposite for so long though!

Needless to say, since I have been home from my business trip, doing these things mentioned above, and the results have been surprisingly good! Neither wife has asked me why I am talking this way or questioned me when I have said "we are doing this" or "I want you to do...". I don't leave sentances open for a rebudal either, or by saying things like "I would like you to". I haven't had a single argument or fight with them and lately my 1st was referring to God and scriptures in a discussion and I was pleased to hear her referring back to those ways of thinking.IIt does seem to be working and I feel so much less stressed and on end because I'm not being tossed around by the ladies moods or behaviour, I stick to my guns, am loving yet firm. It really does work! I am greatfull for the reminder/advice on this, so thank you!!

Please keep praying for her and her return to the faith. I do think I need to be more proactive in home church on the weekends, I've been a bit laxed on it and feel convicted about it, so prayer for discipline and desire to be in the word with the family more would be appreciated. Life gets busy and it gets put aside to much to do a formal Church time at home. Honestly I've felt so intimidated as well because of my 1st studies and "what's she thinking about what I am teaching", and "will she challenge what I am teaching" fears. I'm working on stepping out of that intimidation and just bit the bullet.

So, that's it in a nut shell. Thanks again everyone, love to you all!

 

[frederick]

Appreciate the update and may God continue to bless you all. Shalom

 

[Foxlily]

Yay!! And Blessings to you and your family!