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Support What to do when spouse rejects her faith
- Thread starter Sean Miller
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I love this suggestion! Have you had a chance to read those books? Read them with her, but brush up on Logical Fallacies, so you can spot them and expose them as you do so. Also, question EVERY spurious claim made in those books. Make an effort to follow up on the footnotes, and point out where the footnotes are conspicuously missing, especially if that is a key point the author was making, and point out that the author just pulled this idea out of thin air. When he does have footnotes, make a determination as to whether whomever he cites has any expertise, or perhaps has him or herself, also pulled some strange idea out of thin air. Dorothy M aka Acharya S, has been known to do this sort of thing, where she cites someone who made up a bunch of stuff, and she will then claim that she has cited an expert, who in reality, has no credentials to back up their claims. Mock any claim that you find to be absurd, but follow through to research their so-called "evidence", and obliterate it.She's willing to stay for now, so relax. Take your time. You don't need to have all the answers today. Love her. Show her that you love her. That will put you on the best basis to move forwards. Do not be the one to instigate anything that pushes her further away.
Now, her not wanting intimacy isn't just about this. Even agnostics and atheists have sex, and they're actually noted for the presence or absence of marriage making no difference to their willingness to do so...So there's no reason for a theological disagreement, in itself, to stop her from wanting to have sex with her husband. There's something else going on too, probably something that's been going on for a long time. Try to understand what this is.
Read the books. Pray lots first and during reading them, but do it. Your job is to guide and lead her. How can you lead her if you don't understand the challenges she is facing? And how will she feel your love if you're not interested in something that means so much to her? You must read them in order to be able to help her overcome this assault. This is you bearing her burdens with her. Yes, it may be scary. Yes, it will probably be difficult. Yes, it does carry the risk of you yourself falling if you are not strong enough. But would you fight someone physically to save her, even though you were risking your own death? Of course. In the same way, you should be willing to jump into this spiritual fight on her side, and not leave her to be defeated for fear of your own safety. So jump into the fight - but make sure you're well armed.
So read them - prayerfully. And as @rockfox said, feel free to start threads here asking for help with any issues you find difficult.
Had a buddy send me this today. It’s a little long but shows how even the premier skeptic scholars today accept the resurrection as historical fact and why. Pretty good
Good Ole' "Argument from Emotion" fallacy!
Thanks for sharing that. I am so Red pilled now! I wish I had seen this a few months ago.@Sean Miller, Despite my comments being phrased as advice, please do not take any of what I say here as advice, but rather as suggestions for things to consider as possibly being applicable to your situation. Consider anything I've said here using much prayer and discernment. Chew any meat you find, and surely spit out the rest!
I think that the degree to which a woman *desires* to follow her man is greatly impacted by how attractive he is to her; this attraction is affected by how he deals with her, how he looks, and how he projects desirable masculine traits. Whatever you can do to improve those things, I would think the more she will desire to follow you.
Some places where improvement might be possible... (which I commonly see lacking in men, myself included)
It seems from Eph 5 that the earthly marriage and the dynamic between husband and wife is supposed to mirror the relationship between Christ and His ecclesia. So I think the more you are Christ-like, the more your women will be drawn to you. In particular; confidence, leadership, and Dominance.
- Always dress your best (appropriate for the occasion); even just around the house on weekends.
- Be well kempt.
- (Women are visual too, not just men; give her something nice to look at, and a man she can *feel* good about following.)
- Use good sitting, standing, and walking posture; head up, shoulders back, don't slouch.
- Speak with the deepest voice you can reasonably speak with and not have it sound strange. Avoid having your voice go high when asking questions... (Say "Really." and "Really?" and notice how your voice goes up at the end of "Really?"; don't let it go high, just a slightly reduced deepness.)
- Avoid showing any significant amazement or surprise at anything. "Really??!!"
- Speak with a smooth, steady, and calm voice; at an unhurried pace.
- Be assertive, decisive, confident, and Dominant; lead.
- Do not express self doubt. Self doubt is what it is, but don't show it to your subordinates.
As for adding a wife, the process can generate a lot of upheaval, and it sounds like your house doesn't need any more of that right now, but rather stabilization.
This is kind of focused on a D/s relationship, but I think there is plenty that is applicable to general masculine Dominance.
https://godsgifttohim.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/answers-from-a-dominant-husband-part-1/
Running some Game might help a lot.
https://www.google.com/search?q=red+pill+game+theory
Also this....
It may be that if you increase her attraction to you, she will simply lose interest in her questions, and just follow you, and accept whatever you say. God be with you, Sean. I am praying for you.
Honestly guys, depending on how you view "loving her" scriptures talks about those who reject God or more so Christ and it's not exactly like he chases us and fills us with his love. His love is around us constantly, doesn't matter if we see it or not, he sends the rain on both righteous and unrighteousness alike.
I did not hurt my wife as one of you worded it, by taking a second wife, that's the whole putting her on a pedestal scenario again. She felt hurt, despite my reassurance and loving actions/time I spent. It reminds me of the old saying "sticks and stones break my bones but words will never hurt me". This is to teach us to not let what people say hurt us to the point of how we act in return. She is hurt, she can't forgive, that's not my fault or wrong doing, I wasn't wronging her by marriage to another.
I show her my love every day by being pleasent and listening to her go on about things she wants to do or does or how she feels about different things. Mostly I love by teaching and proving no matter how she behaves. However I don't think I should continue to be her friend because this presents an idea that I'm okay with her removing herself from me how she wants except to the point that she doesn't (being her friend). Its been months, that doesn't bring her around but creates a submission image in my opinion.
Example, she takes for 30min about things she is doing on blogging and want my opinion but soon as I reach for her hand she pulls away from me, as I go to gently remnind her that behaviour is uncalled for. As I go to explain she talks over me, argues and is defensive. At that point I realised I need to stop being her friend, she needs to either realise what she is missing and return as I've asked and expect or disconnect fully. Creating an image that I'm OK and accept things by going along with a almost normal behavior is not helping. You have me or you don't, you don't get parts you want as it pleases her and cut me out from the other things.
Draw near to me and I draw near to you. My love is here and the relationship is as well, whet she is ready for the whole thing. God doesn't want us to serve him in a like warm manner, either we are hot or cold. I'm exactly a s my Father in that same way, in his image.
Thoughts?
I did not hurt my wife as one of you worded it, by taking a second wife, that's the whole putting her on a pedestal scenario again. She felt hurt, despite my reassurance and loving actions/time I spent. It reminds me of the old saying "sticks and stones break my bones but words will never hurt me". This is to teach us to not let what people say hurt us to the point of how we act in return. She is hurt, she can't forgive, that's not my fault or wrong doing, I wasn't wronging her by marriage to another.
I show her my love every day by being pleasent and listening to her go on about things she wants to do or does or how she feels about different things. Mostly I love by teaching and proving no matter how she behaves. However I don't think I should continue to be her friend because this presents an idea that I'm okay with her removing herself from me how she wants except to the point that she doesn't (being her friend). Its been months, that doesn't bring her around but creates a submission image in my opinion.
Example, she takes for 30min about things she is doing on blogging and want my opinion but soon as I reach for her hand she pulls away from me, as I go to gently remnind her that behaviour is uncalled for. As I go to explain she talks over me, argues and is defensive. At that point I realised I need to stop being her friend, she needs to either realise what she is missing and return as I've asked and expect or disconnect fully. Creating an image that I'm OK and accept things by going along with a almost normal behavior is not helping. You have me or you don't, you don't get parts you want as it pleases her and cut me out from the other things.
Draw near to me and I draw near to you. My love is here and the relationship is as well, whet she is ready for the whole thing. God doesn't want us to serve him in a like warm manner, either we are hot or cold. I'm exactly a s my Father in that same way, in his image.
Thoughts?
That’s not what I would describe as the actions/activity of being a friend. It’s more like you are sparing with her, trying to push her in the direction that she needs to go. Being a friend is accepting her where she is at and praying for her. Removing your friendship just makes your house more of a war zone. It may feel good to you because you might feel that you are being proactive, but I don’t see it accomplishing anything. Once put into place, it may be something that the two of you never recover from.
It seems to me that you have several possibilities.
A. Remain friends, don’t try to change her. But require the house to operate according to your overall vision.
B. Turn the friendship off and turn the home into an active battleground.
C. Sit down with her and an attorney and proceed to draw up and activate a legal separation. Discuss both the idea of her continuing to live in the house or getting her own place.
D. Divorce her.
I would recommend A, unless you absolutely cannot do it for whatever reason. But remember that her core problem may be unwillingness to forgive. You are very possibly being tempted to operate in the same spirit.
Failing that, I would skip to option C. B will simply lead to D in my opinion.
You are responsible for the entire household, how you manage this situation effects the rest of the family and everyone’s future.
I am praying for all y’all.
Further thoughts:
The enemy hates and fears polygyny and will devote more of his resources to destroying a polygynist family than any other.
Your wife isn’t your enemy, she is just the weak link in your family right now. Getting rid of her doesn’t get rid of the enemy’s plans against your family if you intend to add another wife.
The struggle is real.
The enemy hates and fears polygyny and will devote more of his resources to destroying a polygynist family than any other.
Your wife isn’t your enemy, she is just the weak link in your family right now. Getting rid of her doesn’t get rid of the enemy’s plans against your family if you intend to add another wife.
The struggle is real.
I believe the biggest problem with the Church today is the church believes that the King James Bible has errors in it and it is not perfect, which I adamantly disagree with that, thus the need for newer versions. Yes I am a King James only home and Sacred Name, but I am not a part of the King James only cult. Remember
1 Corinthians 14:33 KJV For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
So if YaHWeH is not the author of confusion that means Satan is, he proved that in Gen. 3, by casting doubt in what YaHWeH said.
And we see all that confusion in the Church today with ALL the different versions, "well my bible says this" and "my bible says this" "well my bible doesn't even have that verse". If I were to have a 2nd wife she would be required to read out of the King James Bible, that way there is harmony in the home, when it comes to the Scriptures. And yes I am aware that some of you use other versions and you should make sure your home is in harmony, everyone should use what the Head of House uses and please lets not derail this thread. I am just merely pointing out why I believe why the above quoted statement casts doubt.
Hi Sean,
What I'm saying here is a bit "out there" by common Christian standards, and difficult for me to be sure I'm right; so please consider what I am saying; chew any meat you find, and spit out the rest.
Other than what I already noted about Masculine Dominance on page 2, I think that what Steve and "Jim an Apostle" said earlier about addressing this from a spiritual perspective is very much worth exploring.
Before trying to help your wife spiritually, I think you should make sure that you yourself are as clean before God as you can be; so I would recommend doing a self deliverance, which might go something like this...
Regarding forgiveness, try to recall anyone you might be harboring any unforgiveness toward, even so much as being unhappy with someone... your wife perhaps?
Make a statement to God saying that you forgive those people, and everyone who is (and now was) your debtor. Then say a prayer asking God to forgive your debts, and then give Him thanks. Then perform a self deliverance where you command in Yeshua's name that all evil spirits present depart immediately and never return. I would go thru that commanding of the evil spirits to depart three or seven times, and do the whole process as often as you think it might help.
Example;
"Father in Heaven, I forgive all those and everyone else who is, and now was my debtor; I ask in Yeshua's name your forgiveness of my debts. Father, I thank You and pray in Yeshua's name, Amen." "To any evil spirits influencing me, affecting me, or otherwise around me; I command you in Yeshua's name; immediately depart from me and never return."
After that, pray and ask God to show you what you need to see, and then do some serious soul searching regarding anything you have done or are doing amiss, and write down anything you think of. Resign yourself to not do those things again, state out loud to God that you repent of those things, then go thru the above example process again. Then wrap up by saying "Father, please let it be as though I had prayed as I ought to have, and that all things be according to Your will. In Yeshua's name I thank You and pray, Amen."
That's just an example, feel free to customize the process as it seems best.
Here's a video covering another self deliverance approach.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWoIyBpjdzQ"
As for helping your wife, please note what these men did....
"And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually." (Job 1:5)
Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned. (Neh 1:6)
We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. (Dan 9:5-6)
I would recommend reading all of Neh 1, and Dan 9.
It is not my impression that Daniel, or Nehemiah were the real transgressors here, but were supplicating God on their behalf. In the case of Job, it seems he was offering sacrifices on behalf of his children on the mere possibility that they sinned.
Concerning your wife; you as her husband have great spiritual authority concerning her. Read Numbers 30. It is short, and a small segment is that you can review and nullify any vow she makes (in the day you hear it).
What I am thinking fits with the pattern here is that you, as her spiritual head, might be able to confess to God her sins as being your own sins, and then ask God's forgiveness for those things, and any other sins you're not aware of, give Him thanks, and then do that same self deliverance as before, except this time for her, on her behalf; commanding through Yeshua's name that all evil spirits present (with her) depart immediately and never return.
And per Numbers 30, if your wife says something you think she ought not to have said, you can nullify it. Example; if she says "I refuse to listen" (or like sentiment), you might say "I utterly disallow that."
All this should be done in private, as she might not like it at first. Though, at such a point in the future that you can do it holding your arm around her (sheltering her under your wing), then I would think that is better.
You noted previously that "she can't forgive people". I see this is a significant problem. Please see my post about that... https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/...se-rejects-her-faith.14962/page-3#post-194110 As I think about it now, it might be possible to do what I mentioned above, and she soften to the point that you can get her to say the words that she forgives everyone (even if she doesn't think she means it), then that might lead to additional softening, and arriving at meaning it. Expect the enemy to be watering her unforgiveness and using that against her/you. Read Mat 18:34-35, then back up and start at v21.
God bless, Sean; I'm praying for you.
What I'm saying here is a bit "out there" by common Christian standards, and difficult for me to be sure I'm right; so please consider what I am saying; chew any meat you find, and spit out the rest.
Other than what I already noted about Masculine Dominance on page 2, I think that what Steve and "Jim an Apostle" said earlier about addressing this from a spiritual perspective is very much worth exploring.
Before trying to help your wife spiritually, I think you should make sure that you yourself are as clean before God as you can be; so I would recommend doing a self deliverance, which might go something like this...
Regarding forgiveness, try to recall anyone you might be harboring any unforgiveness toward, even so much as being unhappy with someone... your wife perhaps?
Make a statement to God saying that you forgive those people, and everyone who is (and now was) your debtor. Then say a prayer asking God to forgive your debts, and then give Him thanks. Then perform a self deliverance where you command in Yeshua's name that all evil spirits present depart immediately and never return. I would go thru that commanding of the evil spirits to depart three or seven times, and do the whole process as often as you think it might help.
Example;
"Father in Heaven, I forgive all those and everyone else who is, and now was my debtor; I ask in Yeshua's name your forgiveness of my debts. Father, I thank You and pray in Yeshua's name, Amen." "To any evil spirits influencing me, affecting me, or otherwise around me; I command you in Yeshua's name; immediately depart from me and never return."
After that, pray and ask God to show you what you need to see, and then do some serious soul searching regarding anything you have done or are doing amiss, and write down anything you think of. Resign yourself to not do those things again, state out loud to God that you repent of those things, then go thru the above example process again. Then wrap up by saying "Father, please let it be as though I had prayed as I ought to have, and that all things be according to Your will. In Yeshua's name I thank You and pray, Amen."
That's just an example, feel free to customize the process as it seems best.
Here's a video covering another self deliverance approach.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWoIyBpjdzQ"
As for helping your wife, please note what these men did....
"And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually." (Job 1:5)
Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned. (Neh 1:6)
We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. (Dan 9:5-6)
I would recommend reading all of Neh 1, and Dan 9.
It is not my impression that Daniel, or Nehemiah were the real transgressors here, but were supplicating God on their behalf. In the case of Job, it seems he was offering sacrifices on behalf of his children on the mere possibility that they sinned.
Concerning your wife; you as her husband have great spiritual authority concerning her. Read Numbers 30. It is short, and a small segment is that you can review and nullify any vow she makes (in the day you hear it).
What I am thinking fits with the pattern here is that you, as her spiritual head, might be able to confess to God her sins as being your own sins, and then ask God's forgiveness for those things, and any other sins you're not aware of, give Him thanks, and then do that same self deliverance as before, except this time for her, on her behalf; commanding through Yeshua's name that all evil spirits present (with her) depart immediately and never return.
And per Numbers 30, if your wife says something you think she ought not to have said, you can nullify it. Example; if she says "I refuse to listen" (or like sentiment), you might say "I utterly disallow that."
All this should be done in private, as she might not like it at first. Though, at such a point in the future that you can do it holding your arm around her (sheltering her under your wing), then I would think that is better.
You noted previously that "she can't forgive people". I see this is a significant problem. Please see my post about that... https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/...se-rejects-her-faith.14962/page-3#post-194110 As I think about it now, it might be possible to do what I mentioned above, and she soften to the point that you can get her to say the words that she forgives everyone (even if she doesn't think she means it), then that might lead to additional softening, and arriving at meaning it. Expect the enemy to be watering her unforgiveness and using that against her/you. Read Mat 18:34-35, then back up and start at v21.
God bless, Sean; I'm praying for you.
That is the description of a woman who has friendzoned someone. Which speaks of an underlying lack of physical attraction and respect; disgust even.
I see no reason to provide emotional comfort to such a woman. Nor would I put up with the disrespect. Withholding it may be your only practical tool left (and such technique has been effective for some). To continue to be an emotional friend while she is harsh in return will only cement her disgust of you.
Just don't mistake 'not being her friend' for being impolite or uncordial.
It's already a war zone. He lost. Now she's turning him into a eunuch roommate. At least going by that crop-shot of a description.
Option A is to loose and it plays into the problems that probably got him here. Whether she stays, just sneaks around on the side, or divorces him will depend on other factors. But the marriage is dead man walking.
But he won't win by waging head on battle; she no longer respects his spiritual authority; or even spiritual ability. Root causes. Asymmetric warfare.
Is this really about poly though? Or is this about a lack of leadership and attraction? Attractive enough to become her meal ticket but not enough for he to actually follow him?
I don't know. But that's what that description sounds like.
A woman will change her religion and beliefs to match that of a man she's sufficiently attracted to; without prodding, just simply as part of the bonding process. She will change herself or be amiable to radical molding.
I am in agreement with Steve here. Without the friendship, there is no opportunity to undo the underlying damage. Forget about whether she feels hurt by polygamy! Focus on the fact that she thinks she has "discovered" that Christianity is wrongheaded, and undermine the reasons that form the basis of her unbelief. Keep the friendship going as long as possible, unless or until she fornicates with another man, and guide her back to the truth. Without that faith in God that she once had, she cannot accept polygamy as anything other than an archaic principle held by ancient people who didn't know any better.
I highly recommend that you watch some debunkumentaries put out on YouTube, by Chris White.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4CWxmx4wepjrhuCyt6_yaJclTEcCL1xT
@Daniel DeLuca, I think you meant to quote Edward, not me. Thanks for the links though, interesting stuff
Yeah! Sorry about that! Not the first time that has happened, and I'm sure it won't be the last.@Daniel DeLuca, I think you meant to quote Edward, not me. Thanks for the links though, interesting stuff
EDIT: I removed and and re-did the post in response to Edward.
KJO is only going to create more problems in his home than it will ever solve. Think about it! Do you drink deadly poison or pick up serpents? A skeptic very well may challenge you to do so. The best source of truth, is the original manuscripts, which are available online. I highly recommend scripture4all.org, and greekbible.com, because if anyone questions which translation is the most accurate, you can see it for yourself. KJV has the same translation error for Matt 5:28 that all the other translations have, as adultery only occurs between a man and a married woman.
If you could do me a small favor I would greatly appreciate it, please re-read my post I never said anything about him being King James only or that he should be King James only.
He said "the Bible is not infallible" meaning it's not perfect it's got errors and I adamantly disagree with that I believe we have the perfect word of Yahweh without error.
I mean if that's the case then the sodomite can say, well the Bible is wrong, it has errors and my lifestyle is not a sin, the Bible is in error on that subject.
Remember I did point out that others might use different translations, all I'm saying is make sure there is Harmony in the home whatever the the husband uses is what everyone else should use, that way everyone is on the same page and there is no confusion in the home, well my Bible says this, my Bible doesn't say that as a matter of fact my Bible didn't even have that verse.
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matthew 18:11 KJV
Did you know this verse does not exist in the NIV or the NET? It could be that way in other versions, it's this kind of stuff that can cause confusion in the home.
I’ve also heard that if you toss a pinch of salt over your right shoulder while you’re performing the ritual, it will make it more effective.
Your sarcasm about something that you don’t believe in is really uncalled for.