Whose responsibility is it to earn money?

[paterfamilias]

Moderator note: The first 15 posts were originally in the below thread, and have been separated to allow two different lines of discussion to be pursued with clarity. Check the original thread also to understand the context.

How much money should I be making before I get married?

I am 26 years old and single. I know that having a family is expensive and I want to be financially responsible and not get married and have children before I can afford to. Right now I have a steady job and I make enough money to pay for the things that I need and to save a little bit. I could...

www.biblicalfamilies.org

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Forgive me for coming in all cynical, and please don't think I'm discouraging you from seeking a wife. However, some of the men offering you advice are much older than 26. Most haven't attempted to establish themselves from the ground up in the present-day economy. No amount of canning, sewing, or gardening is really going to put a substantial dent in the present cost of living.

I am older but just jumping in and I will disagree in detail but get the point with respect to a younger guy trying to get established and the canning gardening shenanigans not being as big of a help as one might like.

I am a food preservation nerd and can tell you that gardening and canning etc is generally a pretty large initial cost and takes a while to show benefits...possibly years. I say this because I have been through the process in the last 3-4 years.
The way a woman can make a vastly larger difference is in a +/- related fashion is via being a home economics badass. Couponing, using the applications for tracking all of the grocery sales, making ones own cleaning agents from scratch...and speaking of scratch, cook every meal from ingredients purchased on sale and in bulk. No eating out, make your coffee at home etc etc etc...don't have a tonne of unneeded subscription services and so on. There is budgeting and just staying on top of all of the household expenditures and being way ahead of that curve
Perhaps I fall into the old foggy set but I am personally doing all of that stuff and living cheap as chips. (*Puffs out hairy manly chest like I just made a big point before going into a coughing fit)You have indicated that you are pretty type A, so I am assuming that you do some of this stuff as well with respect to being a manager of your life.

I definitely think a couple in their mid 20s can absolutely live their lives that way as well. Info and resources galore available to help one learn to manage their lives in a tight fisted manner.

Now for my boomer take...even though I am not a boomer. So back in my day quivering voice mode where I will tell you about working up hill in the snow both ways to school ten miles and having to keep my nose to 3 concurrent grindstones.

In re money and youth.
I would think that with youth comes great lashings of energy. If we are talking in terms of a young couple then shouldn't both have some sort of part time or "side hustle" (hate current year slang) or better still a home business where the couple is working together.
After college, I kept my lawn business that paid for our school going for a while and my wife managed the accounts, money and labor schedule of the big dumb ape ie me.
Mileage will differ by couple but working together is the big thing in my mind.

Expecting a wife to do all of this while a husband is seeking other women to marry? This is what sounds like entitled princess behavior...by the husband.

Correct.
All of the work and process should be shared by the family. It should be a group project. All of it.

There's no guarantee that a woman will be more devoted to you or that your life together will be better because she struggled along with you..

Guarantee? Nope, you are accurate about no guarantee. That said,, is it more likely that heads together and teamwork making the dream work and other platitudes inserted here do have more than a little validity? Oh my yes

One of the things men often boast about when selling the idea of plural marriage is the benefit of joining an already established family.

not sure I would couch that as a brag...
tough not to see the remarks...well, any remarks really, through one's own personal lense.
I make the statement that joining an established family usually has a single woman joining an established family rather than the other way around and bringing more to the party so to speak.
That said, if any extremely successful or affluent woman wants to take an interest in a big dumb ape...I will not complain.
In fact, there was a woman who did not work out that we talked to for a couple of weeks who was pretty affluent. She had passive income of about 750k a year and significant assets both real and cash. She was saying that if we got on that the wanted to ask me to stop working, find us land and home in the country then stay home to be a full time father and husband. It didn't work out but that idea...that idea really made a big impression on me.
So if you have a loony friend with money that wants a mostly house trained verbose ape, you know where to direct her.

Yet the first wife must struggle along with you in the beginning? To what end? Struggling by your side, just to share her husband at the end of the day.

I definitely see the point. Do still believe that the struggle if needed should be shared and that the man should always try to take the lions share of physical stress naturally.

That said,, plural marriage does involve sharing one's husband...certainly. That is not the point of it however and the sharing is just a part of the equation.

to my mind at least,, the notion of plural marriage is about family. Building a bigger, happier, likely more boisterous and certainly super alive and full of raising crumb crunchers family.

Maybe I am in the minority on that, I don't read the seeking profiles of families seeking. I did that in the past and just got bitter seeing a tonne of narcissistic douches and hedonistic clowns. I would swear though that my attitudes should be fairly common ones shared by much of the families seeking...no?



finding women who are receptive to poly is challenging enough, even for financially successful men. Being at home with their children is what women need and want most. Don't be surprised when ladies aren't queued up at your doorstep, begging for the opportunity to work outside of the household, away from their children, in order to help financially contribute to a husband's household because he wants more wives and children than he can afford.


No argument there...by the same token, you appear to be making the point that single woman should be seeking circumstances by which a system is in place already to allow her to make her contributions at home...moming, wifeing, home economics management etc.

I agree you should have your ability to not over stress assets and that one should be capable of expansion. Have spoken to several who were living/had lived in ways I certainly would not be comfortable with myself

I imagine that a lot of all of this why you frequently find middle aged and established couples looking as it does take some time if one is not dripping with cash at the outset or not taking an Andrew Tate like route and grifting a tonne of money off of retards

 

[MemeFan]

This is most funny thread of forum now.

Autistic men unable to aknowledge @theleastofthese point like that husband should enable wife max possible time with children and instead going how wife is useful in home economics and solving problem of cust cutting.

This scene is like reading marriage advice book for men. You know, advice don't jump into solving problem, aknowledge wife's emotion. What I didn't except is whole male part of forum disregarding this advice. Unbeliveable.

And you are JUST now figuring out that home business can be run by husband giving tasks to wives, spanking worst wife and rewarding best worker of day. Built-in method of performance improvement. Not that I recommend actually using this.

Somehow I have idea I had written something similar idea, but wasn't able to find it.

 

[FamilyCEO]

I've always felt it to keep relationships simple and equitable. I believe men/women have different purposes, illustrated easily by women being able to bear children and the joy/vulnerability that creates in their life that men don't share. For those reasons alone, I have always seen myself as the bread winner / provider / protector role. That being said, my wife is very educated, held jobs and encouraged to do whatever she feels is best/right for her life. I want for her to be able to spend her time with the children and raise them however she see fits without having to outsource it and so its my responsibility to make that possible, but not impose it.

 

[steve]

I want for her to be able to spend her time with the children and raise them however she see fits without having to outsource it and so its my responsibility to make that possible, but not impose it.

Parenting is more of a partnership than that, in my book.
But the sentiment does play well to the peanut gallery.

 

[FamilyCEO]

Parenting is more of a partnership than that, in my book.

Correct. All partnerships have different roles and they can evolve over time, rotate, etc. This is especially true in business where you seek out partners who can augment you. In my case, my earning potential is higher than hers and she wants to stay at home and I am pleased to be able to provide that. I think it could be the inverse or something else completely. No judgement here except if it gets lopsided here and in some cases, borderline abusive which I'm sure we have all seen or heard.

 

[steve]

Correct. All partnerships have different roles and they can evolve over time, rotate, etc. This is especially true in business where you seek out partners who can augment you. In my case, my earning potential is higher than hers and she wants to stay at home and I am pleased to be able to provide that. I think it could be the inverse or something else completely. No judgement here except if it gets lopsided here and in some cases, borderline abusive which I'm sure we have all seen or heard.

Where I would have a problem is if the decision was made arbitrarily to dump the kids in daycare because she felt like taking a job.

 

[FamilyCEO]

Where I would have a problem is if the decision was made arbitrarily to dump the kids in daycare because she felt like taking a job.

I don't believe my wife in isolation can arbitrarily decide daycare. I would suggest/insist on a nanny/family member to stay at home in lieu of the mother. For those who can't do that, it will certainly be cause for some conflict because at some point insisting on "no daycare" lends itself to "imposing" something else. Head of House is a thing but if our values are so misaligned then you put the "House" at risk.

 

[steve]

I don't believe my wife in isolation can arbitrarily decide daycare. I would suggest/insist on a nanny/family member to stay at home in lieu of the mother.

Well, you did say “as she sees fit without outsourcing”, so ok.
I was reading too fast.

 

[NickF]

Allow me to make an illustration. Purely hypothetical as it were.

Let's say there was a very handsome, charming, and intelligent gent who for this example happens to have a glorious beard, infectious grin, and crows feet at the corners of his grey eyes like Eastwood. (Ladies, control yourselves, this is a hypothetical man... sheesh...)

He has a couple businesses but is stretched too thin to make any of them really blossom into what they could be. His first wife helps where she can, but is mostly focused on housekeeping, cooking, homeschooling. So he adds a second wife who can help with one of the businesses. It's indoors work measuring and combining ingredients to be sterilized and then some very easy laminar flow hood work transferring plant cuttings from one sterile container to multiple sterile containers with tweezers. Each cup of gel with little plants makes the family $10-$30 and she can turn out around 60 cups an hour. That means she can contribute about 50K a year to the family with an hour in the afternoon on average twice a week. That and (I'm simplifying numbers drastically)

That's not that much "work". And it's certainly not difficult or physically taxing. A ten year old can do the job. Boring but easy work. More fun for a gal when she has a handsome man sitting next to her cracking jokes and flirting.

When I talk about a woman helping her husband with "work" it's something like that. Or handling incoming emails and dealing with scheduling clients. Watering plants in a greenhouse, helping the rest of the family members to pack orders and stuff boxes.

Every March we as a family all get together for a few hours every afternoon to sort trees into bundles, tag and label them, then pull orders, pack and wrap tree bundles, then stuff boxes, label and ship out. 8-12 hours every weekend for a month and a half. Everyone from the youngest at 9, to the oldest at 13 helps out and does an assembly line job. We have fun and joke, listen to music and get it done. Everyone is expected to work and help.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Let's say there was a very handsome, charming, and intelligent gent who for this example happens to have a glorious beard, infectious grin, and crows feet at the corners of his grey eyes like Eastwood. (Ladies, control yourselves, this is a hypothetical man... sheesh...)

Oh I’m real….I know it seems too go be true but our God is a God of mirackes!

 

[MemeFan]

He has a couple businesses but is stretched too thin to make any of them really blossom into what they could be. His first wife helps where she can, but is mostly focused on housekeeping, cooking, homeschooling. So he adds a second wife who can help with one of the businesses. It's indoors work measuring and combining ingredients to be sterilized and then some very easy laminar flow hood work transferring plant cuttings from one sterile container to multiple sterile containers with tweezers. Each cup of gel with little plants makes the family $10-$30 and she can turn out around 60 cups an hour. That means she can contribute about 50K a year to the family with an hour in the afternoon on average twice a week. That and (I'm simplifying numbers drastically)

Sorry to be dream breaker, but you don't need to get married to find worker.

And you don't ever need new worker. Stop doing business with least perspective. And voila, free time for max business with better perspective.

 

[paterfamilias]

This is most funny thread of forum now.

Autistic men unable to aknowledge @theleastofthese point like that husband should enable wife max possible time with children and instead going how wife is useful in home economics and solving problem of cust cutting.

Great...now I am an autist

This scene is like reading marriage advice book for men.

Insert shrug.
sometimes advice from those with loads of experience is valid.

You know, advice don't jump into solving problem, aknowledge wife's emotion. What I didn't except is whole male part of forum disregarding this advice. Unbeliveable.

And you are JUST now figuring out that home business can be run by husband giving tasks to wives, spanking worst wife and rewarding best worker of day. Built-in method of performance improvement. Not that I recommend actually using this.

Can't comment on any of this beyond home business notion and that each adult should utilize their talents as they are best able for the benefit of each other and the family as a unit

Personally I need someone more well organized than myself. Can do organized but certainly requires more effort than I like

 

[frederick]

home business notion and that each adult should utilize their talents as they are best able for the benefit of each other and the family as a unit

Simple, clearly said and presents what most of us would aspire to in our home business.

 

[paterfamilias]

Simple, clearly said and presents what most of us would aspire to in our home business.

What a morning
First the body blow of being labeled an autist.
Next I am called out as too pretty "hypothetically"
And Now...now I am accused of being concise instead of rambling vague posting
Ugh

 

[theleastofthese]

Sorry to be dream breaker, but you don't need to get married to find worker.

And you don't ever need new worker. Stop doing business with least perspective. And voila, free time for max business with better perspective.

I agree. Just hire someone or cut down on multiple businesses...

And I still hold the stance that, if at all possible, a wife with minor children should not be asked to help with financial contribution, inside or outside of the home, for any amount of time. Especially if that means another wife gets to mother her children while she does so.

I guess I'll just agree to disagree at this point because this thread is giving me a headache

 

[Bartato]

And I still hold the stance that, if at all possible, a wife with minor children should not be asked to help with financial contribution, inside or outside of the home, for any amount of time. Especially if that means another wife gets to mother her children while she does so.

I still hold the stance that, if at all possible men should have three or four wives that all love Jesus, all get along, are virgins at the time of marriage, are cheerful, faithful, good cooks, hard working, frugal, fertile, submissive, good mothers, and look something like the women shown below.

 

[MemeFan]

I still hold the stance that, if at all possible men should have three or four wives that all love Jesus, all get along, are virgins at the time of marriage, are cheerful, faithful, good cooks, hard working, frugal, fertile, submissive, good mothers, and look something like the women shown below.
View attachment 7768

Ummm.......

Maybe 5-6 wives? Or is that too much happy time?

 

[Bartato]

Ummm.......

Maybe 5-6 wives? Or is that too much happy time?

If at all possible

 

[Bartato]

And I still hold the stance that, if at all possible, a wife with minor children should not be asked to help with financial contribution, inside or outside of the home, for any amount of time. Especially if that means another wife gets to mother her children while she does so.

Honestly, in practice, I mostly agree with you.

While my wife and I have never been blessed with children, we have still generally considered homemaking to be her primary role.

For most of our marriage, she worked part time (around 20 hrs a week), to allow her time for homemaking. Being childless, less time was required for homemaking. For the last five years or so, she has not worked for outside income at all.

We always had the understanding that were we to have had children, she would have stayed home with them full time.

Prior to marrying, I read a book that said couples should always strive to live on the husband's income, and not depend on that of the wife. This prepares a couple financially for the arrival of children and the loss of the wife's income.

I took that guidance to heart. We've done that, striving to never need her income, we used it to accelerate the repayment of our home mortgage, and to build savings.

The fact that she does not now work outside the home doesn't mean that she fails to contribute to the finances of our family. She uses our financial resources carefully. She helps me grow a huge garden. She prepares tasty and healthful food for us. All these, and many other things contribute to our financial well-being.

I think your idea that any woman with a child under the age of 18 not even contribute to a family business is not realistic. It strikes me as the somewhat entitled view characteristic of the modern sassy American woman.

Very few women in history have been afforded that sort of luxury. Even queens and noblewomen of the past assisted their husbands.

Frankly, sons over the age of 10 should probably spend far more time working with their fathers (or being educated by them) than clinging to their mother's aprons anyway.

Throughout history, wives have almost always made some financial contribution to the household. Look at what Amish women do. That's what most women have done through most of history.

I will also warn that the soft times we have lived in post WW2 are coming to an end. Life is getting harder everywhere.

"Downward class migration" is a real thing. In the future, we will all probably have to work harder and also live on less.

 

[frederick]

"Downward class migration" is a real thing. In the future, we will all probably have to work harder and also live on less.

Considering the size of a lot of people today, working a bit harder and eating less won't be bad. Our bodies are likened to a home; why do so many look like McMansions?