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Speaking of conspiracies....
- Thread starter andrew
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Somethings we can personally test, without other's calculations, some personal semi inexpensive experiments tests, would be the idea. That's what I have been trying to see, independent personal testing with no external inputs.
Most of us end up depending on other's info and calculations. Light bend would severely distort light and probably invert part of imagine like a mirage. At least we can get entertainment from searching a different perspective and discussion.
After Fraud-demia I got tired of getting info from the experts. I have to personally test and vet all things, with lots of prayers for discernment first, of course. God will start revealing things if we ask him with an honest heart, like a child. We need to watch out for the Ezekiel 14 principle loopback trapping.
We shouldn't be afraid of what we start finding. Just ponder and keep testing. What disappointed me as I got older, was that as a child, I looked up to NASA and even wanted to work for them. Ended up in aerospace anyways and communications. But, continued questioning everything, like with family structures, that made me a status quo heretic of sorts.
It's just a curious nature thing.
Some will dare to ask and doubt. Doesn't mean they are too crazy, just curious.
Things of real value like land, buildings etc...
As I said before, the easiest things to test are:
The first you can do with a regular builders level. The second requires no instruments at all other than your eyes (provided you are in the right place).
Since we're still on the topic,
@FollowingHim as far as the light bending comment you made, I do think that is a weak claim for some of the more extreme examples. I'd like to hear your thoughts on some of these examples I am about to list, and hear your interpretation. The first example is highly notable to the flat earth community and the other two parts are found in scripture.
Do you still hold that light is bending in these videos? That this isn't actually the Chicago skyline at a 60 mile distance(which should be behind the curvature of the earth)?
“And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.”
Luke 4:5
From this high mountain how is it that the devil and Jesus are able to see all of the kingdoms of the world, if the world is suppose to be sloping downwards and away from them in every direction, as a ball does? I'm not entirely sure how this verse works either, for human eyesight does not extend ad infinitum. Many things should be out of sight even from an high mountain, on a flat plane. But yet my point remains, even if spirutually there is some added distance to their eyesight, it still would not make sense for the devil to take Him to an high place to see ALL of the kingdoms of the earth if the earth is a ball, because it would technically be impossible to. It'd make equal sense to stay on the ground to see something so plainly out of view.
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
Revelation 1:7
How would every eye see Him if there are some on the other side of the ball? They'd have to see through the earth if it were a ball. With the cosmology I hold to, which I believe is the biblical one, these verses make perfect sense together. They are consistently inferring that the earth is flat.
@FollowingHim as far as the light bending comment you made, I do think that is a weak claim for some of the more extreme examples. I'd like to hear your thoughts on some of these examples I am about to list, and hear your interpretation. The first example is highly notable to the flat earth community and the other two parts are found in scripture.
Do you still hold that light is bending in these videos? That this isn't actually the Chicago skyline at a 60 mile distance(which should be behind the curvature of the earth)?
“And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.”
Luke 4:5
From this high mountain how is it that the devil and Jesus are able to see all of the kingdoms of the world, if the world is suppose to be sloping downwards and away from them in every direction, as a ball does? I'm not entirely sure how this verse works either, for human eyesight does not extend ad infinitum. Many things should be out of sight even from an high mountain, on a flat plane. But yet my point remains, even if spirutually there is some added distance to their eyesight, it still would not make sense for the devil to take Him to an high place to see ALL of the kingdoms of the earth if the earth is a ball, because it would technically be impossible to. It'd make equal sense to stay on the ground to see something so plainly out of view.
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
Revelation 1:7
How would every eye see Him if there are some on the other side of the ball? They'd have to see through the earth if it were a ball. With the cosmology I hold to, which I believe is the biblical one, these verses make perfect sense together. They are consistently inferring that the earth is flat.
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To me the curiosity stated with the biblical examination of the firmament and some physical anomalies with angular velocity / net gravity over larger latitude changes, also the seeing too far on clear days without hardly any optical distortion like a mirage would. Also a few commercial airline captains told me to look into it several times, thru the years.
But, the bible firmament unbiased study, is what got my attention. Ezekiel 14 is a tricky scary loopback. So, we all need to pray sincerely and ask for supernatural discernment and protection if is His will.
Yes, this is caused by light bending. The proof of that is that in different weather conditions those skylines will look different - sometimes the buildings will stand taller out of the water, sometimes lower, sometimes you may not be able to see them at all. Massively long distances can be photographed in this way, but not always, it is dependent on the atmospheric conditions.
This is why you must not rely on someone else's videos of a skyline on one occasion, and would be better off observing it yourself in a local place on multiple occasions, as then you'd see this with your own eyes and would not be relying on the words of others.
Flat earthers also believe there are physical reasons why I can't climb up a high mountain in New Zealand and see San Fransisco with a telescope. So the flat earth does not provide a physical explanation for either of these events. In either case supernatural intervention is necessary, to ensure them to see all the world, or for all the world to see Jesus. I don't see why one form of supernatural intervention to circumvent the physical laws governing light and visibility of objects would be plausible, but the other would not be.
Guys, one ways to figure if scientific theory is correct is to figure out implications. Then test implication. Maybe they are more easily testable.
Secondly, maybe you should start respecting science more. Yes, scientist are bribeable and can be corrupt, but good scientific theory has endured dozens of years without anybody noticing any failing (except on edges).
You are way over your head if you think you can easily prove wrong established scientific theory.
Secondly, maybe you should start respecting science more. Yes, scientist are bribeable and can be corrupt, but good scientific theory has endured dozens of years without anybody noticing any failing (except on edges).
You are way over your head if you think you can easily prove wrong established scientific theory.
Theory which requires supernatural to work isn't science.
Hundreds of years, and in the case of the earth's shape it's actually thousands of years.
Oh you can prove a theory to be wrong but what's difficult is convincing so-called scientists that one of the tenets of their orthodoxy is false.
This man discovered that peptic ulcers were caused by a bacteria and not by stress which is what the orthodoxy of his time insisted was true. Literally billions of dollars in pharmaceuticals and billions in surgical procedures depended upon this orthodoxy being upheld. This man's scientific method was sound and the rigid orthodoxy and self-appointed High Priests of the Church of Medicine & Science denounced him.
Barry Marshall - Wikipedia
And then he proved them wrong and publicized his findings outside the traditional circles of medical journals.
Now most people take anti-biotics for ulcers. The ulcers get cured and the makers of anti-ulcer drugs don't make money like they used to. And people are no longer subject to needless surgeries.
Health is little more specific. It's more corruptable and complex, both not doing any favors to truth finding.Oh you can prove a theory to be wrong but what's difficult is convincing so-called scientists that one of the tenets of their orthodoxy is false.
This man discovered that peptic ulcers were caused by a bacteria and not by stress which is what the orthodoxy of his time insisted was true. Literally billions of dollars in pharmaceuticals and billions in surgical procedures depended upon this orthodoxy being upheld. This man's scientific method was sound and the rigid orthodoxy and self-appointed High Priests of the Church of Medicine & Science denounced him.
Barry Marshall - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
And then he proved them wrong and publicized his findings outside the traditional circles of medical journals.
Now most people take anti-biotics for ulcers. The ulcers get cured and the makers of anti-ulcer drugs don't make money like they used to. And people are no longer subject to needless surgeries.
It's not "hard" as physics which is topic of current thread.
I honestly find it very hypocritical and illogical when people effectively say "I won't trust NASA, they're deceiving us, I'll trust these random guys on youtube instead whose credentials are even more unknown, here's a video one made".
If you're going to distrust others, then be consistent. Distrust everyone and work it out for yourself - all by yourself. It really isn't that hard.
Don't show us someone else's videos. Explain what measurements you're going to do this weekend.
@FollowingHim Fair enough answers
I don't trust NASA.
Why on pictures of Earth stars aren't visible? Sky from Earth is full of stars. Where are bloody stars?
But this is different case that attacking scientific orthodoxy which most NASA anti-fan are doing.
The idea that NASA is the one telling us the earth is round is a straw-man posed by the flat-earth lobby. The earth has been known to be a sphere for over 2000 years. All pre-GPS ship navigation relied on this for both maps and maths. Of course we shouldn't trust NASA - but that's irrelevant to the question.
I expected you to lean into miraculous vision. I've had more time to think about that verse.
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
Revelation 1:7
“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Matthew 24:30
Jesus coming with the clouds, is a phrase that means that He will appear in the sky to everyone. The second verse clarifies even further. These two verses in and of themselves is stating that you will not need to see through the earth at all, but that He will be visible to everyone in the sky. Yet the earth spans thousands of miles, with people all across it, and if it were a ball, it should be impossible for everyone to see Him in the sky when some are under the ball and others on top of it. There's no way this is congruent with a ball earth model. These two verses infer that the world is not a ball at all.
I do more firmly than before believe that these are positive verses towards the flat, domed, stationary earth model that other parts of scripture makes the case for. It would make much more sense that we are assuming the earth wrong, and that God actually made the earth in a way that everyone would see His Son return at the same time, instead of turning the world inside out or giving every single person extreme miraculous vision. Which would rule out a ball earth.
I assume you will double down and lean again into miraculous vision?
I just don't see how you can make sense of these two verses with your current beliefs of the world.
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
Revelation 1:7
“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Matthew 24:30
Jesus coming with the clouds, is a phrase that means that He will appear in the sky to everyone. The second verse clarifies even further. These two verses in and of themselves is stating that you will not need to see through the earth at all, but that He will be visible to everyone in the sky. Yet the earth spans thousands of miles, with people all across it, and if it were a ball, it should be impossible for everyone to see Him in the sky when some are under the ball and others on top of it. There's no way this is congruent with a ball earth model. These two verses infer that the world is not a ball at all.
I do more firmly than before believe that these are positive verses towards the flat, domed, stationary earth model that other parts of scripture makes the case for. It would make much more sense that we are assuming the earth wrong, and that God actually made the earth in a way that everyone would see His Son return at the same time, instead of turning the world inside out or giving every single person extreme miraculous vision. Which would rule out a ball earth.
I assume you will double down and lean again into miraculous vision?
I just don't see how you can make sense of these two verses with your current beliefs of the world.
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What about the new "trust the science" gender mutilation stuff? Science now says there's many human genders etc.
What about the global warming science that is being used to control and diminish people, soon whole population?
Now some call it climate change, climate always changes in cycles, depending more on solar output and big volcanic activity etc. NASA was exposed, in some leaked emails a few years ago, how they were manipulating base lines for historical temps, like science manipulated things to make covid look much worse and scare people, especially with fake modeling schemes. So, if humans can corrupt science, they probably will.
Ultimately time will tell right? So most of what we know from others is what we are told until we can personally independently verify, and even then we should double check. We all need to pray for supernatural discernment. Is too easy to fall in errors, we are all very vulnerable. Only God can give us His supernatural discernment, not even science.
I think many things are corruptable, I don't usually trust anything unless can personally test. Kind of like doing a good preflight before a flight. Can't just trust the maintenance experts.
I even doubted God and had to test his existence. Now I know he's real, before He was what I was told, I wasn't absolutely sure.
If flat earth belief is wrong, time will show it wrong, if perfect sphere earth is wrong, in time it will be shown too. Right?
So time will tell, God is Truth, not man.