Acts 15/Galatians 2 To C or not to C

[Joleneakamama]

So it is ok to teach people they must keep the law, but not to teach them they must keep it to be saved? What's the difference really?

The difference only exists because people have changed the concept of salvation from a national concept.....keeping and respecting Biblical Law which makes a people and nation free and strong, to a personal concept, pray the sinners prayer so you can be "saved" and go to heaven when you die.

I hate how misused and overused the "slippery slope" is in trying to manipulate people by fear into various ideologies, but any departure from the standard scripture gives puts mankind on just such a steep decline into humanistic 'standards' (is there even such a thing?) and lawlessness.

In effect preaching personal salvation but neglecting God's moral standards as a nation produces a nation of mourning believers living in a man made hell of corruption and abuses of power.

Yeshua/Jesus will make it right in the end.... mankind never could "save" themselves.

 

[The Revolting Man]

It's pretty amusing to me that Hebrews 4 is what convinced me the Sabbath was still a thing, rest is another word for sabbath. It literally says "there remains a sabbath."

 

[Pacman]

They were teaching them to keep the law for salvation.

So it is ok to teach people they must keep the law, but not to teach them they must keep it to be saved? What's the difference really?

Is this even a real question?

Do you not teach people not to commit adultery? Are you claiming that any teaching about “right or wrong” is teaching it for salvation?

The difference is if you are teaching and relying on keeping the Torah for your salvation you will inevitably fail. And it is false teaching.

If you are teaching and keeping Torah as an act of obedience and love (John 14:15) after salvation then you are “walking as he walked” 1 John 2:6

The constant accusations being made that anyone who teaches that we should keep Torah must be teaching that it’s our way of salvation is getting old really fast!

 

[Cap]

Is this even a real question?

Do you not teach people not to commit adultery? Are you claiming that any teaching about “right or wrong” is teaching it for salvation?

The difference is if you are teaching and relying on keeping the Torah for your salvation you will inevitably fail. And it is false teaching.

If you are teaching and keeping Torah as an act of obedience and love (John 14:15) after salvation then you are “walking as he walked” 1 John 2:6

The constant accusations being made that anyone who teaches that we should keep Torah must be teaching that it’s our way of salvation is getting old really fast!

I think @rockfox s question is a fair question. Also I don't think anyone is 'teaching' anything, just trying to learn.

If following the Law is not for salvation, then it's for worship alone? Is that correct?

 

[Pacman]

I think @rockfox s question is a fair question. Also I don't think anyone is 'teaching' anything, just trying to learn.

If following the Law is not for salvation, then it's for worship alone? Is that correct?

It’s for love. John 14:15

 

[Phillip]

I knew a lady that said God will make her wealthy. I asked her what she was doing that God would make her wealthy? She said nothing. God’s going to do it for her.

This scripture came to mind:

James 2:
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

There is nothing we can do, Torah observant can do or working in our church can do that can give us salvation. That’s a free gift of God, thru Jesus his son. But, you all know this.

Faith without works!? If you are believing God for a thing, get started. Your gifts will bring about success when you align them with God.

Faith and salvation are two different things. Throw in obedience with the scriptures, Old flowing thru New Testament, get started doing something your skilled in and God can do some great things for you.

But don’t sit on your couch waiting for God to wave His magic wand and you’re rich. This ain’t Disney.

 

[Cap]

It’s for love. John 14:15

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be c in you.

I agree with your response, but there is more going on here than following old testament laws, wouldn't you say? The commands being spoken of to follow seem to imply present and future tense, coordinating from the old testament laws, it seems, but not soley on them.

 

[Pacman]

there is more going on here than following old testament laws, wouldn't you say?

No I wouldn’t. There are no “new” commands all of them are based in the Torah... and yes they are past, present, and future.

 

[Cap]

No I wouldn’t. There are no “new” commands all of them are based in the Torah... and yes they are past, present, and future.

Can you tell me what you see is the point of the Holy Spirit, or advocate, and what is He helping us with?

 

[Phillip]

Can you tell me what you see is the point of the Holy Spirit, or advocate, and what is He helping us with?

What a great question. A small thing the Holy Spirit helps us with is understanding scripture. He started showing me how well known preachers would take a scripture and teach us the meaning. One of the first the Holy Spirit taught me was how ‘God will give you the desires of your heart’. He said if you wanted a Cadillac with this or that, then tell God and he’ll get it for you. While reading that scripture a few years later, the Holy Spirit showed me that, if you’ll let Him, God will take out your old desires and give you new desires that line up with His calling/will on your life.

He led me to many understandings since, including the truth behind polygyny. Now, I had to do some serious studies, but look where he has led me so far. I consider many my friends on this site. And the Holy Spirit is. It done yet.

The Testaments, New and Old, flow so well together. We have the Ten Commandments and they are still valid today. Even though our wives only have to obey nine of them. (That whole covet thy neighbors wife doesn’t apply to them. Women get off easy.)

As we learn more, and allow the Holy Spirit further access to our lives, I believe more and more will be revealed. The destination is heaven, but the journeys gonna be great.

 

[Pacman]

Can you tell me what you see is the point of the Holy Spirit, or advocate, and what is He helping us with?

The Holy Spirit does lots of stuff. One thing is he guides us into truth. (Torah)

John 15:26 NASBS
[26] "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,

John 16:13-15 NASB
[13] But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. [14] He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. [15] All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Psalm 119:142 NASBS
[142] Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law (Torah) is truth.



Our advocate is Yeshua

1 John 2:1-2 NASB
[1] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; [2] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[Cap]

The Holy Spirit does lots of stuff.
.

Amen

 

[yoderfamily]

It's pretty amusing to me that Hebrews 4 is what convinced me the Sabbath was still a thing, rest is another word for sabbath. It literally says "there remains a sabbath."

I guess what I get out of Hebrews 4 is that I am supposed to rest in that rest. It is now no longer just 1 day to be Holy but every day. Not just 1 day out of the week to rest from our works but every day.
God worked 6 days and rested on the seventh, and the eighth, and ninth,etc, and is still in that rest today. That is the path I aim to rest in. Every day.

 

[Phillip]

God worked 6 days and rested on the seventh, and the eighth, and ninth,etc, and is still in that rest today. That is the path I aim to rest in. Every day.

That could be taken as time period as well. There are three definitions to the word yom in Genesis. 12 hours, 24 hours and a time period. If I understand you correctly, we are in a continual state of rest. Ya ain’t gonna get much done at a perpetual state of rest. Ya gotta get up and cut the grass sometime.

 

[yoderfamily]

That could be taken as time period as well. There are three definitions to the word yom in Genesis. 12 hours, 24 hours and a time period. If I understand you correctly, we are in a continual state of rest. Ya ain’t gonna get much done at a perpetual state of rest. Ya gotta get up and cut the grass sometime.

Would you imply God isn't getting anything done while he is resting? Or are you purposely missing the point.

 

[Phillip]

Would you imply God isn't getting anything done while he is resting? Or are you purposely missing the point.

If I missed your point, it was not purposely. Can you bring me up to speed?

As I recall, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It was designed for rest, but not to be imprisoned by it. We as humans have such a way of screwing the simple up. For instance, if on the Sabbath your ox falls in a hole, ya gonna leave it there till Sunday or Monday? Depending on your definition of Sabbath.

Nope, your gonna get a block and tackle along with a four wheeler and pull that puppy out. Even though it’s the Sabbath.

 

[frederick]

We have the Ten Commandments and they are still valid today. Even though our wives only have to obey nine of them. (That whole covet thy neighbors wife doesn’t apply to them. Women get off easy.)

But the Tenth involves coveting more than just a neighbors wife.

 

[Phillip]

But the Tenth involves coveting more than just a neighbors wife.

Maybe so, but what I said should make a few people smile.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Maybe so, but what I said should make a few people smile.

I became friends almost 8 years ago with another wife and country living mom of 8 who lived a few states away. I have still never seen her in real life, but we became such great phone friends that her hubby used to jokingly tell her "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife!"

 

[yoderfamily]

If I missed your point, it was not purposely. Can you bring me up to speed?

I believe the rest we are supposed to be in is a spiritual rest. The Sabbath day rest was a foreshadow of that spiritual rest in the same way the sacrificial lamb was a shadow of the perfect lamb, Jesus.
I have no problem what day of the week somebody else's Holy Day is if they choose to honor a specific day. But as most of us know, there are many vested in a specific day yet don't know the definition of The Rest. Being in a continual Sabbath rest means we have ceased from our fleshly works and view everyday as a special day set aside to worship Him. Faithfully fulfilling what God has called you to do is worshipping Him.