And that is the blessing for the man and his women in polygynous marriages - something Mr Joel read-it-out-of-the-text Saint will wholeheartedly oppose.
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BibFam gets the shoutout... from the pulpit! 😂😂
- Thread starter PeteR
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Well, I am sure looking forward to what Mr Joel has to say tomorrow!
FOMMWM is a condition most married men are afflicted with. Pastor Joel is one among many who foster this phobia. Psychologists don't even want to recognize this phobia. It is an irrational fear in most cases. One tactic that a lot of men employ, is talking naughty with their wives. FOMMWM can prevent you from doing that. What does FOMMWM stand for?
Fear of making my wife mad.
There are four words that strike terror in the hearts of most married men:
Custody
Child Support
Alimony
There are two words that strike fear in the hearts of most married women:
Younger and prettier
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Why, fer cryin' out loud, oh, WHY?
Because it helps us to see how poor the arguments are for the monogamy-only heresies.
You missed my post about honing our arguments. We always sound like we are right when we are in the echo chamber of Biblical Families, but it is great to see how others who do not see eye to eye with us, will respond, so that we are more prepared to deal with their rebuttals.
Fair enough.
But it reminds me a bit of trying to "hone debate" by listening to Comrade Kamala. And being able to respond to idiocy.
There is a point of 'diminishing returns.'
I thought that aspect, (a man having another to turn to) might increase accountability for the wife (at the time it was the two of us and I was thinking about myself) I thought that it might be a matter of me having to not procrastinate sharing my feelings (something easy for me to do) and take a more active role in staying emotionally connected......because he wouldn't "need me" so much. How little did I know! What is actual for me/us, is that the accountability I feel isn't about what I miss...it isn't a me thing. I thought he might just be happy to let me avoid him... he is NOT. ...so then my motivation to resolve issues becomes not wanting to let anything cause discomfort for my sweet sisterwife and of course ...all our children.And that is the blessing for the man and his women in polygynous marriages - something Mr Joel read-it-out-of-the-text Saint will wholeheartedly oppose.
So the need (accountability factor) for me to honestly communicate and manage my emotional issues is still there... but the actual mechanism it works on is not what I had thought it would be before.
This cracks me up...but I get it! Where's the popcorn?
I actually prefer arguments and debates that at least appear to hold water...or actually make you think.
I/we saw that years ago. Looked at both sides and decided that one side was biblically supported and the other was not.
It's fun and self-satisfying to shoot down someone's stupid arguments with actual scripture - without changing anyone's mind. We can spend many hours doing so. Hence "diminishing returns".
What is far more difficult is actually engaging with them in a way that will change their minds.
What is far more difficult is actually engaging with them in a way that will change their minds.
Which is why my focus has been on trying to get them to see ALL of the rest of the "lies we have inherited from our fathers."
I've seen FAR more people willing to consider what He Wrote about marriage once they realize that His Feasts are HIS, for example, and not 'jewish'. And then start to ask, "just what ELSE have we been lied to about?"
You just had to go there! What if we simply showed them the gender dimorphism found in the New Testament laws regarding divorce and remarriage? Wouldn't that open their eyes and make them question what they have always been taught?
The point was good arguments.
How many times has the answer been "NO!" Just how successful has that been for you?
You many not like it (and they probably WON'T like your polygyny arguments, either!) but I have found - repeatedly - that what works for when NOTHING else will is consistency.
If He can change His mind about pork - why not marriage? Or, if it's what "The Church" mandates that matters - you're SOL (outta luck) either way.
@Mark C is just relaying his own experience. He has found that talking about Torah is an effective strategy to open people's eyes about plural marriage. Of course he COULD just talk about other things, but he doesn't use the same set of arguments you do. Don't start debating this here also... His point is entirely valid.
Proverbs 7:2 NLT
Obey my commands and live! Guard my instructions (torah) as you guard your own eyes.
It is very hard to make a strong case for polygyny without going deep into the Creator’s torah. We also find out that we’ve been mis-lead on things like adultery and divorce. Which points to the Creator’s Word being true - “He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. “I do not change.” “The Eternal Rock.” So the question becomes - what else have we’ve been wrong about?
That’s where it takes some serious truth seeking, but the answers are in there.
And I have - and DO - use EVERY argument that has ever been put on this site for polygyny. (I have posted probably every single one of them, and taught them for over 25 years.)
And I can tell you what works best with what background of people, especially for those I know, or that have listened to shows.
And - just for purpose of 'completeness' - I can even list the best ones in nominal (reverse) order of efficacy:
4) YHVH does NOT provide rules or procedures for doing that which He prohibits. (I.e., HOW to "lie with a man as with a woman," or to commit adultery, or murder.) But He does for things that He allows or specifies.
3) ...Speaking of which... You can't show me ANY place in Scripture where polygyny is prohibited. I can show you (at least) THREE places (it was one, then two, for years...) where it MAY be required.
2) YHVH does not sin. And He refers to Himself as a polygynist, through at least, two witnesses.
1) He changes NOT. He said He would NOT change "one yod or tiddle" of His own commandments. He is not a liar. Therefore, He never changed His commandments about marriage, either.
Guess which one most people who would never CONSIDER "polygamy" are most persuaded by?
Well the thing is, this is about why we watch and respond to the messages. His arguments may work for him, but none of us who reject that belief have any use for them whatsoever!
No! Not torah.
It may be hard, but taking short cuts is not necessarily an avenue that we ought to pursue.
Exactly!
Which is what we have been doing here. If we go off into TO debate, the thread gets locked. Let's not go there.
I have no issues with any of the four you listed here, and I don't think anyone here does either. We are trying to address rebuttals to the arguments that we have been putting forward. That is all we are doing. Sometimes we use arguments that we think will work, and we get blindsided in debates, when we are not ready for something they have conjured together to counter our arguments. If we believed that keeping the feasts is required, that might be a good avenue to pursue, but many of us here DON'T, and you know this!
Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.
Here's the KJV:
Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments, and live; and my law (this word is torah in the Hebrew) as the apple of thine eye.
Here it is in the Hebrew:
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