Child Rearing - Home Schooling, Polygyny, Careers, Subject Matter Experts. Win win?

[Ruth Elizabeth]

I think he's in reference to the idea that sometimes they come off awkward or have a harder time carrying a two-way conversation with strangers or they aren't used to certain social etiquette (if you can call it such). Which is normal. Even kids in public school have those problems, they are just forced to practice a bit more but it doesn't make them all adept at it.
But taking out the idea of homeschool, if you just move to a different state, you can run into the same problems. I have absolutely no problem speaking with British people, Brazilians, and I lived in Canada so I can get along there but it isn't pleasantries. But the people from NC I can't hold a proper conversation with. I don't understand a lot of their terminology because they will use some of the same terms that I grew up with to mean something completely different. They have their own subculture and when I moved here, neither me or any of my friends who moved in were able to find jobs because we didn't have friends and family that already lived here. Etc. So I am sure I come off as awkward to them as they feel to me. I have only had two friends that were born and raised in NC and everyone else I associate with here aren't natives to the state.

 

[Mark C]

I've heard that said of New Yorkers.

But perhaps the difference is, people in flyover country that watch TV have been exposed to that 'culture' - like it or not. (And, BTW, I'm not from NC, just Missouri, which may have some overlap...)

 

[Ruth Elizabeth]

I've heard that said of New Yorkers.

But perhaps the difference is, people in flyover country that watch TV have been exposed to that 'culture' - like it or not. (And, BTW, I'm not from NC, just Missouri, which may have some overlap...)

Well I did live in NY....
Haha! Probably! Country culture is something I will never understand! Add southern culture on top of that and I'm at a complete loss!

 

[Mark C]

Hint: When they say "War Between the States," or "War to Prevent Southern Independence" - do you translate that as "Civil War"? Or just wonder what they are talking about?

 

[Ruth Elizabeth]

Really? I might've said you need to get out more.

Instead, I'll just note the opposite: I have not met ANY homeschooled teens or young adults that weren't, in general, superior in education and understanding in just about every way to what I see from the "Publik Skool Indoctranashun Sinturs." (And they spell better, too. )

It depends on the school.
The first high-school I attended was far better than my Uni and people there were very educated and intelligent.
My second two high-schools claimed intelligence but didn't necessarily have it. The kids in those schools were so bad off that out of six kids at a table I was the only one not seeing a psychiatrist. I tutored the freshmen in basic spelling and almost everyday cops were pulling girls out of the school for fights. Seeing a piece of crap in the hallway wasn't too out of the norm either. I'm sure almost any homeschool kid could do better than they did socially. In fact I knew a homeschool family there who did far and beyond better until they started sending their kids to the Uni there and they developed problems too...

 

[Ruth Elizabeth]

Hint: When they say "War Between the States," or "War to Prevent Southern Independence" - do you translate that as "Civil War"? Or just wonder what they are talking about?

Haha! The first time I heard it I clued in but it's funny how they even call it by a different name.
One thing that killed me was "Ma'am." All my life Ma'am was a grave insult, unless you were a military kid. When I moved to NC, at my second school, all the teachers addressed the seniors as Ma'am and Sir. I graduated still unsure if it was just some staff prank on the seniors or if they thought they were treating us like adults.

 

[IndianaLife]

I think you need to explain your phrase, "able to function in basic social situations",

They act like they've never seen human beings outside of their family, can't carry a conversation to save their life, are often beyond gullible, and frequently avoid eye contact with people not in their immediate family.

When my wife gets home-schooled students in her classes (she's a high school teacher) more often than not they're also behind on what is being taught (she teaches various maths) and consistently need more help in SAT prep (which she also does). Granted most of the SAT prep kids have been from a ton of kids that were yanked by parents for covid and then when return to office started happening parents had to put their kids back in.

ResponsibleHomeSchooing.org even reports on some of this https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/advocacy/policy/educational-neglect/

"Educational neglect can also have additional negative affects on children as well, especially given that it is often combined with social isolation or insular communities. In some cases, students may not learn to think critically"

"Some children who are homeschooled experience educational neglect, with longterm consequences: upon reaching adulthood, these individuals may struggle to attend college or enter the workforce in a meaningful way."

"Homeschooled students on average perform more poorly in math than students who attend other schools, and that this “math gap” appears to affect formerly homeschooled students’ choice of college major. "

"Homeschooled students take the SAT and ACT at far lower rates than they should given their numbers, and data from several states suggests that homeschooled students may be only half as likely as other students to attend college."

You can also find several examples of people self-reporting social stunting in the /r/homeschool subreddit


"To this day I’m more socially awkward as a result of them destroying my self esteem than anything else. I’ll never subject my kids to that type of environment. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"This %100. I have known and currently know lots of homeschoolers all over the country. A common theme is that the initial introduction to a college or public high school is tough, potentially even traumatic. Me and my siblings all experienced this to various degrees."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I'm pretty sure I would've like my childhood much better if I had the ability to socialize (a literal human NECESSITY) and wasn't trapped in a house with an abusive parent 24/7."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"
When I was in army basic training, the one and only kid in my platoon who quit was a home schooled kid. He quit because he was being "bullied". I put that in quotes because he wasn't treated any worse than anyone else particularly, but his reactions to it got him treated worse. For example, we were all shooting the shit making fun of each other. When Jacobson (not his real name) would get teases he took it seriously. He made a scene. He once even told our drill sergeant he was being made fun of thinking the drill sergeant would put a stop to it. In a way drill sergeant did, but it was in a way that made Jacobson hated by everyone. He was ostracized until he realized how unwanted he was that he quit. That's just one example off the top of my head"

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I was a lonely homeschooled kid because we lived rurally and my parents did not make an effort, and it was painful emotionally. That’s why I worry about socializing my kids—because healthy relationships are a source of joy as well as learning."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I can only speak from my personal experience, but it's very bad. Homeschooled until 15, then public school for the last three years and a small liberal arts college for four. I'm 33 now and I'm still waiting to feel like I fit in anywhere. I feel like an alien walking around in a human suit pretending to know what's going on. All I know is that however bad it is, I would be a non-functional human now if it weren't for grades 10-12. Public school saved me. And my parents were educated professionals with lots of free time for me and no agenda beyond legitimately thinking they could educate me better than a school." https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool..._the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually/


Etc.

 

[frederick]

They act like they've never seen human beings outside of their family, can't carry a conversation to save their life, are often beyond gullible, and frequently avoid eye contact with people not in their immediate family.

When my wife gets home-schooled students in her classes (she's a high school teacher) more often than not they're also behind on what is being taught (she teaches various maths) and consistently need more help in SAT prep (which she also does). Granted most of the SAT prep kids have been from a ton of kids that were yanked by parents for covid and then when return to office started happening parents had to put their kids back in.

ResponsibleHomeSchooing.org even reports on some of this https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/advocacy/policy/educational-neglect/

"Educational neglect can also have additional negative affects on children as well, especially given that it is often combined with social isolation or insular communities. In some cases, students may not learn to think critically"

"Some children who are homeschooled experience educational neglect, with longterm consequences: upon reaching adulthood, these individuals may struggle to attend college or enter the workforce in a meaningful way."

"Homeschooled students on average perform more poorly in math than students who attend other schools, and that this “math gap” appears to affect formerly homeschooled students’ choice of college major. "

"Homeschooled students take the SAT and ACT at far lower rates than they should given their numbers, and data from several states suggests that homeschooled students may be only half as likely as other students to attend college."

You can also find several examples of people self-reporting social stunting in the /r/homeschool subreddit


"To this day I’m more socially awkward as a result of them destroying my self esteem than anything else. I’ll never subject my kids to that type of environment. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"This %100. I have known and currently know lots of homeschoolers all over the country. A common theme is that the initial introduction to a college or public high school is tough, potentially even traumatic. Me and my siblings all experienced this to various degrees."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I'm pretty sure I would've like my childhood much better if I had the ability to socialize (a literal human NECESSITY) and wasn't trapped in a house with an abusive parent 24/7."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"
When I was in army basic training, the one and only kid in my platoon who quit was a home schooled kid. He quit because he was being "bullied". I put that in quotes because he wasn't treated any worse than anyone else particularly, but his reactions to it got him treated worse. For example, we were all shooting the shit making fun of each other. When Jacobson (not his real name) would get teases he took it seriously. He made a scene. He once even told our drill sergeant he was being made fun of thinking the drill sergeant would put a stop to it. In a way drill sergeant did, but it was in a way that made Jacobson hated by everyone. He was ostracized until he realized how unwanted he was that he quit. That's just one example off the top of my head"

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I was a lonely homeschooled kid because we lived rurally and my parents did not make an effort, and it was painful emotionally. That’s why I worry about socializing my kids—because healthy relationships are a source of joy as well as learning."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I can only speak from my personal experience, but it's very bad. Homeschooled until 15, then public school for the last three years and a small liberal arts college for four. I'm 33 now and I'm still waiting to feel like I fit in anywhere. I feel like an alien walking around in a human suit pretending to know what's going on. All I know is that however bad it is, I would be a non-functional human now if it weren't for grades 10-12. Public school saved me. And my parents were educated professionals with lots of free time for me and no agenda beyond legitimately thinking they could educate me better than a school." https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool..._the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually/


Etc.

It must be the American culture of "home schooling" kids as opposed to ours of home educating them. We actively avoided bring the failed public schooling system into our home and focussed on education instead. The results speak for themselves. Cheers

 

[Mark C]

I've yet to meet a SINGLE Publik Skool Indoc kid under the age of 30 who has a clue what the Declaration of Independence says, or what the Bill of Rights is for.

But I know every one of 'em could tell my why Rainbow Flags are more important.

When my wife gets home-schooled students in her classes (she's a high school teacher) more often than not they're also behind on what is being taught...

Ah. There it is.

That's where I'd want any of mine to be WAY behind.

 

[Ruth Elizabeth]

They act like they've never seen human beings outside of their family, can't carry a conversation to save their life, are often beyond gullible, and frequently avoid eye contact with people not in their immediate family.

That's fine it's something they will get over in time, but honestly those are traits I took up at one point after what I experienced in Public school and Uni. I did not want to associate with people and I did not trust them. And I am not the only one that has happened to.

When my wife gets home-schooled students in her classes (she's a high school teacher) more often than not they're also behind on what is being taught (she teaches various maths) and consistently need more help in SAT prep (which she also does). Granted most of the SAT prep kids have been from a ton of kids that were yanked by parents for covid and then when return to office started happening parents had to put their kids back in.

It sounds like your school is pretty good but in my experience attending several different schools is that most schools aren't. Most schools you are not going to obtain that much education and you can't retain the math past when its necessary for a test.

One thing could be is that some homeschoolers aren't as used to timed-tests. They are usually taught a more methodical approach (try to get it right but take your time) rather than strategies on how to take a test.
My younger siblings who were homeschooled were much higher math (my dad was a college math professor so that helps) but we had to drill them on how to take timed-tests.

....

I could respond to all of these people. You are almost guaranteed to be bullied in some form or another in public school and the kids there can't take it either. Again everyone in my one school had psychologists, took drugs, and did porn. They just have their socially accepted, but naturally destructive methods to cope with it. (Not that homeschoolers don't do those things too but it tends to be less common among them)

Sure homeschooling can fail, utterly fail. But the ones it works out for are better off because our society is rubbish. I wish I had pursued homeschooling after I did it in 8th grade, but I was naive. I wish I homeschooled my last year when I moved, but I thought I could push through it despite everything.

 

[FollowingHim]

Homeschoolers certainly won't fit into school well. They're not used to the environment, or testing, and will be quite out of place. But school is a highly artificial environment. One of your quotes mentions not fitting into the military - that's not surprising either, it's so similar to school. Institutionalised children would obviously fit more naturally into other institutions like the military.

In real life though, outside of institutions, homeschoolers tend to fit in better. We constantly get compliments on how mature, polite and generally sensible our children are. Homeschoolers are more used to interactions with adults. They mature quickly and fit into workplaces with adults naturally.

Having said that, it is possible to raise socially awkward homeschooled children, if you never allow them to interact with anyone outside the family. I agree that some people do isolate their children too much. However this is the exception. Most homeschoolers are better "socialised" than public schooled children, because public school "socialisation" is hanging out with other dumb kids and mutually dragging each other down into stupidity, while homeschool "socialisation" is going out with adults and doing real stuff, that prepares them better for the sorts of social interaction that you carry out most of the time in the real world.

 

[steve]

Some really smart people are taking problematic positions here.
Homeschooling varies widely from family to family. Some kids are extremely poorly parented and are an embarrassment to the community, while many others become exceptional adults.

Whilst the public school experience also varies, there is a lot more consistency in how brainwashed the product is.

 

[phaedrus]

Hint: When they say "War Between the States," or "War to Prevent Southern Independence" - do you translate that as "Civil War"? Or just wonder what they are talking about?

The War of Northern Aggression.

 

[NickF]

The public school system was quite literally designed to produce conformist factory workers and soldiers. It was designed to create people who cannot think critically, who will blindly trust officials.

I will not apologize for knowing and understanding the history of that disgusting institution, nor will I ever praise the horrific product of it’s depraved halls.

There are certainly some wonderful and genuine people who go into the public education system. People who want to better the world and help children grow into good people. And I’m sure there were good people in the bureaucratic apparatus of all the dictators of the past. Well intentioned people progressing the agenda of mass murderers without knowing what they are actually doing.

The statist indoctrination system is rotten to it’s root and needs to be excised.

 

[phaedrus]

They act like they've never seen human beings outside of their family, can't carry a conversation to save their life, are often beyond gullible, and frequently avoid eye contact with people not in their immediate family.

When my wife gets home-schooled students in her classes (she's a high school teacher) more often than not they're also behind on what is being taught (she teaches various maths) and consistently need more help in SAT prep (which she also does). Granted most of the SAT prep kids have been from a ton of kids that were yanked by parents for covid and then when return to office started happening parents had to put their kids back in.

ResponsibleHomeSchooing.org even reports on some of this https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/advocacy/policy/educational-neglect/

"Educational neglect can also have additional negative affects on children as well, especially given that it is often combined with social isolation or insular communities. In some cases, students may not learn to think critically"

"Some children who are homeschooled experience educational neglect, with longterm consequences: upon reaching adulthood, these individuals may struggle to attend college or enter the workforce in a meaningful way."

"Homeschooled students on average perform more poorly in math than students who attend other schools, and that this “math gap” appears to affect formerly homeschooled students’ choice of college major. "

"Homeschooled students take the SAT and ACT at far lower rates than they should given their numbers, and data from several states suggests that homeschooled students may be only half as likely as other students to attend college."

You can also find several examples of people self-reporting social stunting in the /r/homeschool subreddit


"To this day I’m more socially awkward as a result of them destroying my self esteem than anything else. I’ll never subject my kids to that type of environment. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"This %100. I have known and currently know lots of homeschoolers all over the country. A common theme is that the initial introduction to a college or public high school is tough, potentially even traumatic. Me and my siblings all experienced this to various degrees."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I'm pretty sure I would've like my childhood much better if I had the ability to socialize (a literal human NECESSITY) and wasn't trapped in a house with an abusive parent 24/7."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"
When I was in army basic training, the one and only kid in my platoon who quit was a home schooled kid. He quit because he was being "bullied". I put that in quotes because he wasn't treated any worse than anyone else particularly, but his reactions to it got him treated worse. For example, we were all shooting the shit making fun of each other. When Jacobson (not his real name) would get teases he took it seriously. He made a scene. He once even told our drill sergeant he was being made fun of thinking the drill sergeant would put a stop to it. In a way drill sergeant did, but it was in a way that made Jacobson hated by everyone. He was ostracized until he realized how unwanted he was that he quit. That's just one example off the top of my head"

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I was a lonely homeschooled kid because we lived rurally and my parents did not make an effort, and it was painful emotionally. That’s why I worry about socializing my kids—because healthy relationships are a source of joy as well as learning."

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool/comments/14vh53t/whats_the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually

"I can only speak from my personal experience, but it's very bad. Homeschooled until 15, then public school for the last three years and a small liberal arts college for four. I'm 33 now and I'm still waiting to feel like I fit in anywhere. I feel like an alien walking around in a human suit pretending to know what's going on. All I know is that however bad it is, I would be a non-functional human now if it weren't for grades 10-12. Public school saved me. And my parents were educated professionals with lots of free time for me and no agenda beyond legitimately thinking they could educate me better than a school." https://www.reddit.com/r/homeschool..._the_evidence_homeschooled_children_actually/


Etc.

We homeschool our children. They're all social butterflies. Saying they're awkward is, well, absurd to say the least. My oldest son is one of the more popular kids in our public school--he doesn't go that school. Whenever he or we go out, he's the center of their attention--everyone wants to talk to him. Random kids are always saying hi to him. I ask who that person is and he doesn't know. One of his buddies who goes to that school always marvels at how my son is so extremely popular.

My children are more advanced than public school kids in regard to their education too. We've chosen to allow our kids to double down on what they're interested in and good at. So their education is different than public school kids. Outside of reading, writing, and mathematics they're allowed to focus on what they want. I find that teaching children how to be autodidacts is better than feeding them facts and figures that they forget.

We also get comments nearly every time we have our entire family in public about how polite and well behaved our children are.

The fact is that the school system is an abject failure. If you want your children to be destroyed, send them there. My sister is a teacher and my mother was a teacher. I know it's difficult to see things clearly when you're tied to that system through your family but our school systems are failures. That isn't my opinion. Just look at international test scores.

Assuming parents are giving their children proper guidance, I think homeschooling is superior. This isn't just my opinion. One of my friends is a college guidance counselor. He helps students during their first couple years to make sure they're making the right decisions (courses, course load, studying properly, etc) to get the outcome they want. He has told me multiple times that the second a homeschool student walks in his office for the first time he knows it. They can speak to him. The know what they want. They are superior and a pleasure to work with. They also have better college outcomes. They are high speed, low drag--to use a term you would be familiar with.

 

[phaedrus]

I should add that my sister teaches at a very selective boarding school. They're educating the children of royalty and billionaires. "Creating the next generation of leaders of blah, blah, blah." It costs over $50k/year to go to there and I think they probably do a fair job at educating the kids. We recently went there for my niece's graduation. My son ended up debating some other boys for a few hours. They were a couple years older than him and it seemed like they were having a wonderful conversation. They ended up becoming friends. There was some give and take but no clear winners. It would appear that homeschooling is saving me a quarter million dollars a year.

 

[NickF]

My parents chose to educate me at home. My grandmother was against it, most of her extended family was in public education, my great uncle on that side was a doctorate history professor at the collegiate level, and sat on the education board. He had a low view of the idea of one of the proles deigning to even attempt the education of a child at home.

Verbose to the point of pomposity, most people would avoid sitting near him. They stuck me next to him at a restaurant once during a visit when I was maybe 12. I had been reading well for only 3 years due to a slow start. (Dyslexia)
We spoke about everything under the sun and in particular his report included how impressed he was that I taught him things about genetics that he didn’t know. His opinion on homeschooling turned 180deg and he even started advocating for homeschoolers at his board meetings.

I decided to shortcut things and enrolled in college right after I turned 16.

I’m an internationally known consultant and professional in ecosystem engineering, I speak to hundreds of thousands of people annually.

Us homeschoolers are by and large and uneducated and inept lot. Incapable of basic social etiquette, and certainly dismal at things like public speaking.

Maybe I should recant my position. I’ll sign my children up to be trained by Romans to be school shooters. Maybe my sons can learn about sexuality by trannies, mentally ill leftists, and 10 year old little girl whores.

On second thought. Maybe I’ll just stick with the type of education that worked well for 99.99% of recorded human history. I think the fruits of the secular apparatchik indoctrination are enough for me to know them for what they are.

To quote a prominent voice on the forum, perhaps believers participating in that evil system need to “come out of her”.

 

[Mark C]

This kinda thing prolly only happens in the Pubic Cesspools...

And it it doesn't make you angry, you're not paying attention:

Parents sue school for helping daughter secretly become boy in class

'It happened all in secret, for months and months without our clients knowing,' says the couple's lawyer Eric Sell, from the conservative Center For American Liberty.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The parents, who are called John and Jane Doe in court papers, say Brighton High School, in the Denver suburbs, helped the anxious and depressed teen transition without notifying them.

A counselor even connected the girl to a therapist [sic] , who was themselves trans, and suggested the girl take cross-sex hormones and have her breasts surgically removed. The daughter, known as AD and now aged 16, identifies as a girl once again and regrets her transition...The daughter, known as AD and now aged 16, identifies as a girl once again and regrets her transition.

 

[MemeFan]

I saw data saying suicides in children go up when school starts again. That's enough condemnation.

 

[frederick]

I find that teaching children how to be autodidacts is better

This is an important difference because the public schooling system doesn't want independent learners and thinkers. Their cookie-cutter system only wants conformity.