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Child Rearing - Home Schooling, Polygyny, Careers, Subject Matter Experts. Win win?

You are all arguing between two extremes.

Parents cannot just dump children into a school system, they need to be taught to be decent human being at home as well. I know a stay at home mom, who drops her children off at daycare every day. Why?

Granted, in the USA it can be difficult since child support for new parents is almost non existent.

On the other hand, I have problems with home schooling as well. How qualified are the parents? I was at a fundraiser with a woman who home schools her child, who could not do % calculations. If she cannot even do the most fundamental math, she should not be be teaching anyone /discussion.

Also, just the cost of the chemicals in the chem lab at my school are likely over $10,000 How are you people managing this?

There is one group of home school children I met that I envy. We met them while sailing, they were doing a two year circumnavigation of the globe. However, the yacht had a dedicated class room on board, and the parents hired tutors.
 
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I know a stay at home mom, who drops her parents off at daycare every day. Why?
We are probably all in agreement there.
Also, just the cost of the chemicals in the chem lab at my school are likely over $10,000 How are you people managing this?
Many school systems have programs for homeschoolers to take part in labs, band, sports, and other parts of what is offered at the school.
 
On the other hand, I have problems with home schooling as well. How qualified are the parents?
If you start with what God says in Holy Scripture it's fairly straightforward. I'll ask you a couple of simple questions, how many times does God give instructions for school teachers in the Bible about teaching children? And how many times does God give instruction to fathers and/or mothers about teaching children? If a mature person wants to go on to learn a specific profession or career they might need to obtain formal qualifications but they won't be a child.
 
By teaching a son or daughter how to gain knowledge, many parents have enabled their children to study subjects that were beyond their own understanding or comprehension.
Insisting that kids only learn from a teacher who can spoon-feed them is very stifling to their future growth.
 
You are all arguing between two extremes.
If we lived in a better society I would be fine with kids going to public schools. I dislike the system we currently have, it's terrible and draws children away from parents and siblings, but there should be some method of public schooling that is good.

But parents even if they are trying to teach their children to be good people, don't always know or understand what they may be sending their kid into. Depending on where you live you can be sending your kid into a rape-culture school and I am not speaking in extremes there. I am stating simple facts. If I had told my parents what my last two schools were like they would have pulled me out, but I thought I was a good enough person, I learned good morals at home, and I could handle it.
If I get married and have kids I will definitely homeschool because I do not want my children to be exposed to the sexual harassment and gropers that went to my schools, and if they were in my schools, which were considered some of the better schools in their states, then I guarantee they will be more common in schools several years down the road as our society is becoming increasingly sexualised. I would rather my girls be taught imperfectly on some subjects by me than get stalked, leered at through binoculars, texted sexual things, or even groped several times by strangers in the halls of a public school. Again I am not speaking in extremes, I have not said anything worse than what I can bear witness to in school, and all three of my schools at least one of these things happened to moral Christian girls who did not dress like sluts and did not do anything to draw that kind of attention to themselves other than attend the school. Teachers who say that their school is good don't actually have a perfect understanding of what is going on in the student body. They will have a better view, and vague ideas, but they don't know all the moral issues that happen.
Even in the first high-school I attended talking to friends who were older than me we noticed that each year was shocked at how much more perverse and openly sexual the new grade coming in was. If it was that definite then and in that school, it will be more so in a few years.

Parents don't know everything and they're not perfect teachers but neither are public school teachers. I am sure that anyone else who has attended public school can say that they also have had a teacher that was mean to students for no reason, bullied certain students, or taught nothing to the class.
Depending on where you live homeschoolers actually do have groups where they can do activities that public-schoolers get to do. In 8th grade we joined one that put on a literal play, and went to court with public school kids to perform mock trials and be judged on them by lawyers. Those were my favourite school experiences ever and I was homeschooled at the time.
 
You are all arguing between two extremes.

Parents cannot just dump children into a school system, they need to be taught to be decent human being at home as well.

I think the difficulty that people are having is where political ideas...quite extreme ones are being indoctrinated to children in public schools and that maladaptive ideologies are being advocated while they deny and conceal it from parents.
You have stated something along the lines of not caring about politics but I guarantee you that they very much effect and colour your day to life whether you are aware on a surface level or not.
Many parents strongly object to the ideas being taught as well as the recent authoritarian nature of schools presuming that it is in fact they who are in charge as opposed to the parents. There has been a significant push towards homeschool as parents who did for decades think that they could drop children off and deal with morals at home. That the schools we apolitical and focused purely on academic topics.
Painful awaking has been much in vogue of late.


I know a stay at home mom, who drops her children off at daycare every day. Why?

No offense to that family...not just the stay at home mom as presumably the husband is allowing the behavior but that looks like sheer selfishness and laziness.

I have known in passing a few woman in an exceptionally well to do area who were stay at home wives with apparently the mom thing on the side as well. I have no idea if this next part applies to the woman you know but it was certainly what I have seen. These woman were aware that they were a trophy or accessory of some sort. A no doubt valuable one, especially in their own eyes but one that needed to be maintained. Their lives while the children were with nannies or daycare consisted of yoga classes, personal trainers, tennis pros and "wellness centers" whatever that means as well as therapists. Occasional errands and then being home one assumes to do some sort of meal prep.
The point being that they did not strike me as involved in their children's lives as some men might like in a wife. Different strokes and what have you but regardless of how attractive the upholstery and apparent fitness levels of these woman, personally I found them unattractive as I learned about their lives and parenting or lack thereof.



On the other hand, I have problems with home schooling as well. How qualified are the parents? I was at a fundraiser with a woman who home schools her child, who could not do % calculations. If she cannot even do the most fundamental math, she should not be be teaching anyone /discussion.

I think your own experience, based in a few overt hints as to your background is helping you to lean more heavily into the notion of credentials fallacy.
I imagine that the schools you went to had instructors who were specialists in their given areas as opposed to something as unintentionally laughable as a degree in education as is often the case in public schools. Perhaps a English lit degree or biology degree here or there but then there are coaches as well. They may well know their sport inside and out, but they are not inherently anymore qualify to teach history or mathematics than an average person off the street with brief training in advance of taking on the role.
I have met plenty of professionals that outside of their specific area are vastly less impressive. Certainly thst woman needs to learn some kitchen math but I havevto hope her children had not gotten to the point where she is teaching them that yet.

I have previously mentioned that the homeschooler equation by definition to my mind often means a process of learning material together, both parent and child.
I am also of the opinion that you will find vastly more autodidactic personality types among the homeschool parents. Mileage may vary obviously but I will use myself as an example. I can fabricate a fractional still for petroleum, butcher carcasses, administer networks back when it was hard, qualified as a sommelier, can repair a goodly number of things mechanical, taught multiple specialist subjects and am currently studying nutrition and its history as well as intending to start enriching my own harvested platelets for mad scientist reasons...and none of that is intended as some sort of virtue or fitness signal. Genuinely. More likely a nerd signal really. I am nobody special. Just some guy who enjoys learning topics that interest him. Shiney new nickel says that my particular brand of nerd is over represented in homeschool parent circles. I suspect I will get confirmation in the near term.

Thinking on it a bit, I would wager that until recently when so many parents were forced to notice during the lockdowns just how insane the indoctrination their children were receiving, your average homeschool parents will have had an easy standard of deviation over average teachers in IQ.
Perhaps our experience has been different with respect to the tyoe of people we have encountered and I am projecting my hopes for the other families onto them. We only know some through the martial arts school my son attends and a few here and there in single serving conversations.

Also, just the cost of the chemicals in the chem lab at my school are likely over $10,000 How are you people managing this?

I am going to seem like I am picking on you here and that is not at all the intention. Do keep that in mind please.
I get the impression that the environment you associate with learning will of necessity be a classroom or lab with purpose made/build facilities.

I like to think of how I see it as (Mark) Hopkins law sort of equation with respect to homeschooling children in that he said the ideal college was a professor at one end of a log and a student at another. One should take every opportunity to make activities teaching opportunities.
Just this weekend in fact while at the zoo, unsurprisingly we covered rather a lot about different types of animals, protective colouration, how developing in different ecologies will split species and what was subspeciation as well as learned via help with youtube about winding ropes and cordage as well as aome geography quizing as we got to different paddocks with maps on them.
I think this is likely pretty much what it would be like most homeschool families. The same goes for our visit to a historical and automotive museum recently (we were doing some route 66 family vacation shenanigans) but I will not bore you with a list of the topics discussed at each, you can likely imagine.
I will admit that if my son becomes more fascinated by his trip to the aquarium that I will have to learn rather a lot more than a recipe for a good beer batter for fish if I wish to instruct him but that is part of the fun.

I suppose thst the overarching point I am wending my way towards is that one doesn't need as much in the way of resources as one might imagine to teach a child effectively. Much of what is genuinely useful and practical rather than niech profession focused can be managed on a small scale without undue expense. Especially so in the age of youtube etc instructional, how to and lecture videos.



That reminds me...for homeschool nerds generally, not just addressing Maia currently but all the rest of you dorks as well...the site survivallibrary.org that I have previously mentioned as a good resource for prepper nerds and booku free download able resources, has a bunch of pdfs of children's textbooks and activities books from the 1800s till 1950s and wow...we have really gone down hill on our standards.
One thing to know it and another to be reminded with hard evidence. Could be great for some homeschoolers though
 
I know a stay at home mom, who drops her children off at daycare every day. Why?
No offense to that family...not just the stay at home mom as presumably the husband is allowing the behavior but that looks like sheer selfishness and laziness.
In NZ, we are one of the very few families not to put our children into daycare. It's encouraged here, and it's not called daycare, it's called early childhood education (ECE). About 15 years ago the govt wanted to get 98% of children into ECE. It was promoted as a way to get children socialised, expand their education, and get them ready to start school at 5. I knew loads of stay at home mums who put their kids into ECE. Once your child reaches the age of 3, you get 20 hours a week funded by the govt. It was free, and it gave them a break, particularly if they had another baby to look after. And the feeling was put out there that at home you can't really do enough to get your child fully ready for school so this is the best way to do it.
I definitely felt like the odd duck, not taking that opportunity to put my kids in ECE and have a break. Instead I kept them home with me, and then chose to homeschool lol. Weirdoes that we are ;).
 
In NZ, we are one of the very few families not to put our children into daycare. It's encouraged here, and it's not called daycare, it's called early childhood education (ECE). About 15 years ago the govt wanted to get 98% of children into ECE. It was promoted as a way to get children socialised, expand their education, and get them ready to start school at 5. I knew loads of stay at home mums who put their kids into ECE. Once your child reaches the age of 3, you get 20 hours a week funded by the govt. It was free, and it gave them a break, particularly if they had another baby to look after. And the feeling was put out there that at home you can't really do enough to get your child fully ready for school so this is the best way to do it.
I definitely felt like the odd duck, not taking that opportunity to put my kids in ECE and have a break. Instead I kept them home with me, and then chose to homeschool lol. Weirdoes that we are ;).


You know, I could use this sort of information on fasting days. It would be a tonne of help
 
If you start with what God says in Holy Scripture it's fairly straightforward. I'll ask you a couple of simple questions, how many times does God give instructions for school teachers in the Bible about teaching children? And how many times does God give instruction to fathers and/or mothers about teaching children? If a mature person wants to go on to learn a specific profession or career they might need to obtain formal qualifications but they won't be a child.
For the same reason that the Holy Scripture has no rules regarding the internet, it was as much a thing as public learning institutions.

Personally, I think the 11th Commandant should have been 'thou shall have no auto playing music nor video on thy website' but I digress.
If we lived in a better society I would be fine with kids going to public schools. I dislike the system we currently have, it's terrible and draws children away from parents and siblings, but there should be some method of public schooling that is good.

But parents even if they are trying to teach their children to be good people, don't always know or understand what they may be sending their kid into. Depending on where you live you can be sending your kid into a rape-culture school and I am not speaking in extremes there. I am stating simple facts. If I had told my parents what my last two schools were like they would have pulled me out, but I thought I was a good enough person, I learned good morals at home, and I could handle it.
If I get married and have kids I will definitely homeschool because I do not want my children to be exposed to the sexual harassment and gropers that went to my schools, and if they were in my schools, which were considered some of the better schools in their states, then I guarantee they will be more common in schools several years down the road as our society is becoming increasingly sexualised. I would rather my girls be taught imperfectly on some subjects by me than get stalked, leered at through binoculars, texted sexual things, or even groped several times by strangers in the halls of a public school. Again I am not speaking in extremes, I have not said anything worse than what I can bear witness to in school, and all three of my schools at least one of these things happened to moral Christian girls who did not dress like sluts and did not do anything to draw that kind of attention to themselves other than attend the school. Teachers who say that their school is good don't actually have a perfect understanding of what is going on in the student body. They will have a better view, and vague ideas, but they don't know all the moral issues that happen.
Even in the first high-school I attended talking to friends who were older than me we noticed that each year was shocked at how much more perverse and openly sexual the new grade coming in was. If it was that definite then and in that school, it will be more so in a few years.

Parents don't know everything and they're not perfect teachers but neither are public school teachers. I am sure that anyone else who has attended public school can say that they also have had a teacher that was mean to students for no reason, bullied certain students, or taught nothing to the class.
Depending on where you live homeschoolers actually do have groups where they can do activities that public-schoolers get to do. In 8th grade we joined one that put on a literal play, and went to court with public school kids to perform mock trials and be judged on them by lawyers. Those were my favourite school experiences ever and I was homeschooled at the time.

There are certainly bad schools that I am glad I am not in.

I have experienced similar things (though nothing I could not handle), and teenage boys are one reason why I have stated that I would actually consider a significantly older man. However the rest of world is the same. In church I also got ogled, and I am not sure if you have read some of my interactions here, but some men here have told me that I am an object to be traded between father and husband. One might as well learn young that one needs a certain level of aggression to not be stepped on. I realize now that men are the reason by parents signed me up martial arts classes since I was like 6 or so.

One thing that needs to be easier is the ability to get bullies thrown from schools. The problem is even a bully has a constitutional right to an education, so it can be difficult get them thrown out, and even if they do get thrown out, they often end up at different schools.

I think the difficulty that people are having is where political ideas...quite extreme ones are being indoctrinated to children in public schools and that maladaptive ideologies are being advocated while they deny and conceal it from parents.
Sure, but I would argue you can have the same problem with home schooling.

I am glad that I am not Earth_is-'s daughter, he would have already "married" me off to a friend of his when I was 14. His daughters would need a public education system to teach them that they are not their father's property.


I think your own experience, based in a few overt hints as to your background is helping you to lean more heavily into the notion of credentials fallacy.
I imagine that the schools you went to had instructors who were specialists in their given areas
I have been to Catholic schools, and private schools. Even the Catholic schools had a robust STEM program, and you did not have to be catholic .
I get the impression that the environment you associate with learning will of necessity be a classroom or lab with purpose made/build facilities.
Yes.
In NZ, we are one of the very few families not to put our children into daycare. It's encouraged here, and it's not called daycare, it's called early childhood education (ECE). About 15 years ago the govt wanted to get 98% of children into ECE. It was promoted as a way to get children socialised, expand their education, and get them ready to start school at 5. I knew loads of stay at home mums who put their kids into ECE. Once your child reaches the age of 3, you get 20 hours a week funded by the govt. It was free, and it gave them a break, particularly if they had another baby to look after. And the feeling was put out there that at home you can't really do enough to get your child fully ready for school so this is the best way to do it.
I definitely felt like the odd duck, not taking that opportunity to put my kids in ECE and have a break. Instead I kept them home with me, and then chose to homeschool lol. Weirdoes that we are ;).
In Germany parents can take up to 3 years of paid parental leave up until the child is 8. It can be divided between mother and father. The US would benefit from that imo, but the problem is in the USA, everyone thing is partisan. You are either a Democrat, or a Republican, a Capitalist, or a Communist. And paid parental leave is viewed as communist.
 
For the same reason that the Holy Scripture has no rules regarding the internet, it was as much a thing as public learning institutions.
Since you and I are at opposite ends of the scale in our regard for Scripture I see no benefit to engage further. Cheers
 
And paid parental leave is viewed as communist.
Correct. Actually whole social welfare and social support state should be removed as conservative policy.

Public education - state replacing parents as chief educators
Unemployment benefits - state replacing family as unemployment protection
Public healthcare - state replacing family and self responsibility to take care of yourself and your family
Retirement system - state replacing family as who will take care of you in old age

See, something can only exist if it has function. Now wonder family as institution is dying because its functions are being replaced.
 
Correct. Actually whole social welfare and social support state should be removed as conservative policy.

Public education - state replacing parents as chief educators
Unemployment benefits - state replacing family as unemployment protection
Public healthcare - state replacing family and self responsibility to take care of yourself and your family
Retirement system - state replacing family as who will take care of you in old age

See, something can only exist if it has function. Now wonder family as institution is dying because its functions are being replaced.

I would point out that in this case, yes there is money flowing from the state, however it is to allow family to care for children. There are similar programs to allow family to care for sick people. It is basically the state facilitating the christian concept of caritas.


I find the American stance on these topics curious. Especially how many people making less then $200,000 per year seem to think they can make it. I wonder how many truly understand the potential cost of medical treatments. An aunt of mine in Germany had a brain tumour, she did survive , thanks in part to a heavy ion accelerator in Heidelberg, the cost of a single treatment was 250,000 Euros, this was paid by mandatory public (not state) insurance. My dad suffered an anaphylactic shock at a conference in San Diego a few years ago (thankfully it was at a dinner reception so there were other people around to call an ambulance) the cost of a single night in the hospital, plus diagnostics, and the ambulance costs was $20,000. Now that was covered by private insurance, however that brings up a question that I do not know the answer to, what happens to those insurance programs when one loses a job, or cannot work because of extended illness? Are there provision that the insurance will continue to pay even without the person paying. Is there an insurance to cover one not being able to pay insurance?

Considering how many people declare private bankruptcy in the USA over medical costs, what do you actually gain in the end? So the courts end up selling everything you own, to pay the doctors and then, since you are now poor, you can go hat in hand to Medicaid.
 
I wonder how many truly understand the potential cost of medical treatments.
The real problem is how pitifully few understand the REAL cost of socialism, communism, and fascism.


TANSTAAFL! (There ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch)
 
I would point out that in this case, yes there is money flowing from the state, however it is to allow family to care for children. There are similar programs to allow family to care for sick people. It is basically the state facilitating the christian concept of caritas.
Taxation is theft.

There is no morality in giving Peter Paul's stolen money.

Caritas is voluntary given from gratitude of heart.
 
I find the American stance on these topics curious. Especially how many people making less then $200,000 per year seem to think they can make it. I wonder how many truly understand the potential cost of medical treatments. An aunt of mine in Germany had a brain tumour, she did survive , thanks in part to a heavy ion accelerator in Heidelberg, the cost of a single treatment was 250,000 Euros, this was paid by mandatory public (not state) insurance. My dad suffered an anaphylactic shock at a conference in San Diego a few years ago (thankfully it was at a dinner reception so there were other people around to call an ambulance) the cost of a single night in the hospital, plus diagnostics, and the ambulance costs was $20,000. Now that was covered by private insurance, however that brings up a question that I do not know the answer to, what happens to those insurance programs when one loses a job, or cannot work because of extended illness? Are there provision that the insurance will continue to pay even without the person paying. Is there an insurance to cover one not being able to pay insurance?

Considering how many people declare private bankruptcy in the USA over medical costs, what do you actually gain in the end? So the courts end up selling everything you own, to pay the doctors and then, since you are now poor, you can go hat in hand to Medicaid.
Off course, US healthcare is catastrophe. It's almost commie system.

It' simple. US population in 90% of cases don't pay directly anything. So it's free from your perspective and who cares about costs. So hospitals raise price up. They insurance does the same.

Since nobody cares about costs, this allows hospitals and insurance to be in bed, instead of motivating cost control in each other. So prices can now even faster go up.

If you check data, you will see US workers wages haven't been going up since 70s while productivity has gone up. So productivity increase was absorbed as health care costs.


More here:

I wasn't able to find story about cash-only hospital (they refuse any insured patient) having 10X lower price than regular approach.

By the way, US government has decided to screw hospital by paying 20% or 10% of required cost. So hospitals have raised costs by 5X or 10X.
 
The real problem is how pitifully few understand the REAL cost of socialism, communism, and fascism.


TANSTAAFL! (There ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch)


Germany was split into a capitalist and a communist portion after WW2. Even though Unification happened waaaay before I was born, parts of the former East Germany is still behind. I am aware of Communism.

However, you do do the typical American thing of just looking at extremes instead of shades of grey. Germany has more social programs, however they also have constitutional provisions on government spending which the US does not have. During the economic crisis, people were actually paying the German government money to load them money, since loaning money to Berlin was viewed as low risk.
 
US healthcare

I am tacked on to our corporate plan, I do not know my exact costs, however I do know that we pay ~$10,000 per employee/year if memory serves. I have heard it mention that compared to employees in Europe, health care costs in the USA neutralize tax advantages that the US would heve.



So I take it you do not bother to buy insurance. That seems like poor risk assessment. Like I said, for my dad a single night in the hospital came to $20,000.

Taxation is theft.

No one likes paying taxes, however roads etc. do not fall like mana from the sky.
 
So I take it you do not bother to buy insurance. That seems like poor risk assessment. Like I said, for my dad a single night in the hospital came to $20,000.
I live in Europe. US healthcare isn't my problem. For me its only interesting in what states does to anything (make it way worse).

No one likes paying taxes, however roads etc. do not fall like mana from the sky.
Ah classical who will pay to roads argument. Those who benefit from roads, obviously. It seems that taxation has destroyed any imagination in people. They can't imagine society working differently.

Did you noticed you have provided argument for anarchism? If nobody like paying for taxes it means state isn't providing enough value. So either cut taxes massively or best remove state.
 
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