Meat Why wouldn’t God alter His commands?

[PeteR]

You are such an obtuse, needlessly condescending ass. I’ve always said it was about His Commands. Your the one who wants warp every thing to fit a fact pattern that’s not there.

Conduct unbecoming of a moderator. At least pretend to have some respect after you asked the question.

 

[Mark C]

Then we agree! God planned on a change in His instructions His followers were to obey. And He can do so without compromising who and what He is.

You missed the whole point. Read the story.

They were being 'instructed' - WRONG.

Thus, as He said, the "change in the priesthood."

 

[PeteR]

I hope these passages contributes to the discussion.

Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. For the Father seeks such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” (John 4)

For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. (Hebrews 7:12 MEV).

But the anointing which you have received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. (Fulfilment of Hebrews 8:11-12?
11 No longer shall every man teach his neighbor,
and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’for all shall know Me,from the least of them to the greatest.12 For I will be merciful toward their unrighteousness,and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”)
For as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him. (1 John 2:27 MEV).

"whatever is not from faith is sin." (Romans 14:23)

Do not be conformed to this world, (I think this includes religious leaders) but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.(Romans 12:2 MEV)

Based on these passages, I am concluding that when we are in Christ (relying on His righteousness alone and His propitiation), the Holy Spirit within us will direct our conduct. Mistake we could make as believers when we listen to other self proclaimed prophets or self proclaimed gate keepers who tell us things contrary to the Holy Spirit. Trust but verify is good way to respond to any Christian authority. Hence I am ok to accept that there are believers who are convinced in their mind that God forbade them to drink alcohol. I am open to accept that the Holy Spirit residing within them forbade them to drink alcohol. In the same way I hope mainstream Christians will accept a possibility that God would direct me to take on an additional wife. It is my understanding that David went to priests to eat bread dedicated to priests only. God is able to make exceptions or ammand anything He wishes.

None of these are changes in the Law.... even Hebrews 7:12.

The whole book of Hebrews reveals the role of Yeshua as High Priest over even the sons of Aaron... still in Hebrews 8:4 or 6 it says at the time of writing that the Levitical priests were functioning lawfully... and, Ez. 43 & 44 tell us there will be sacrifice in the future temple under the watchful eye of the Prince (Yeshua).

Now, is there any question the Levitical Priests were not subordinate to the Melchzedeck? Hebrews tells us they were while still in the loins of Abraham..

 

[Transformator Reformator]

Isaiah 46:9-10

Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

God won't alter His commands because as they were in the beginning so shall they be in the end.

Context indicates God's will, His purpose. I am not sure that this would indicate His commandments.

Sadly, that's quite a statement. Perhaps you might wanna rephrase...

Help me. What is better way of saying what I tried to communicate. Thanks.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Malachi 3:6 nkjv
“For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever.”

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the LORD endures forever.”

If his Word can be changed - then his character can be changed. And if his character can be changed - then how can we discern from the real and the fake? Also if his Word can be changed - what if he decides to completely wipe off every one of us - and not fulfill any of his final prophecies?

He says he’s the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change.

To teach contrary to his everlasting Word is to walk in darkness - Isaiah 8:20.

Peter said the letters of Paul can be easily twisted. So if something seems twisted - go back to the Rock - the un-changing Word for clarification.

All of these are big picture principles. We know He will alter His instructions because He did. How are we drawing lines between the ones He will alter and the ones He won’t?

 

[The Revolting Man]

I hope these passages contributes to the discussion.

Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. For the Father seeks such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” (John 4)

For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. (Hebrews 7:12 MEV).

Oooooh, good ones.

 

[Mark C]

Help me. What is better way of saying what I tried to communicate. Thanks.

Your phrasing implied your word could not be trusted, just like His.

But I'm not so sure you don't wanna re-think the entire concept...



PS> But it does, I hope, help illustrate the Bigger Fallacy here:

Those who try to equate His clear prohibition: MEN being forbidden to "add to" or "subtract from" His commandments, with some kind of - let's face it - utterly asinine claim that He cannot and does not act CONSISTENTLY with His own Word is just plain disingenuous.

It's akin to a father telling his son to "wear a raincoat" one day, but not the next. Could there be a reason?

And the fact that He warns about 'famine' and "plagues,' and well-warranted judgment against an obviously wicked nation, like AmeriKa, or most of the world today, but has not YET destroyed them, says FAR more about His mercy than it does His "changing His mind."


PPS> And finally, if He is SO prone to just "changing His Word/Law/Commandments" or whatever the current strawman is --

why would you ever trust in His Salvation?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Conduct unbecoming of a moderator. At least pretend to have some respect after you asked the question.

I’m sorry Pete but I have been accused of being a Nazi so many times by this guy, sworn at and insulted so many times publicly and none of that includes the private messages, that I’m willing to tell Mark a few hard truths about himself.

 

[The Revolting Man]

His COMMANDMENTS have not changed - and He said so.

Do you think, just MAYBE, that He planned on a change in what they were being INSTRUCTED?

So, His word can change?

The whole book of Hebrews reveals the role of Yeshua as High Priest over even the sons of Aaron

Which would be a major change. The priesthood was a positive command and there was no provision for someone from Judah to take part in it.

I’m sorry Pete, but this is a swamp we’ve based our Torah observance in. These castles are going to keep falling down until we get on a firm foundation. God doesn’t change but His instructions most definitely have. The most you can claim is that His moral precepts haven’t altered but almost every thing else has.

All of the forms and functions are different and vast swaths of what was given at Sinai ended with David. We just can’t get around it.

 

[Transformator Reformator]

The following passages may shed light on instances when God changed His commandments or mind.

20 God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men come to call you, rise up and go with them. But surely the word which I will say to you, that will you do.”
21 Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his donkey, and went with the princes of Moab. 22 The anger of God was inflamed because he went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. (Numbers 22). (It appears that God gave Balaam permission (aka commandment) to go but it was not His perfect will for Balaam to follow up on that permission. But I might be missing something).

Also, there is instance where God wished to destroy Israel completely and start the nation with Moses, but Moses' intercession changed God's mind. (Exodus 32:11-14).
Then the Lord relented of the harm which He said He would do to His people.
If God did not relent/repent then we may assume that He pretented that he wanted to destroy Israel. I am not willing to assume that God would pretend.

 

[Mark C]

I’m sorry Pete but I have been accused of being a Nazi so many times by this guy, sworn at and insulted so many times publicly and none of that includes the private messages, that I’m willing to tell Mark a few hard truths about himself.

Hell, you're willing to call Yahushua Himself a liar. I have little remaining doubt that if you could censor Matthew 5 you would.

 

[Transformator Reformator]

why would you ever trust in His Salvation?

Since American Constitution contains amendments that were introduced at later time, would this mean that it is flawed and need to be tossed away?

But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (Hebrews 8:6 KJV21)
Based on this verse alone it would amply that there was something prior that was less than excellent ministry and there was something previously that was inferior to better promises.

I would trust His salvation because without faith it is impossible to please God, and if I were to shrink back (aka doubt) God will not be pleased.

Now the just shall live by faith; but if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him.” (Hebrews 10:38)

 

[Mark C]

The following passages may shed light on instances when God changed His commandments or mind.

Red herring.

The point is whether MEN are allowed to CHANGE HIS MIND for Him!!!

 

[JudahYAHites]

And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount. - Exo 25:40 KJV

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. - Heb 8:5 KJV

Isaiah 46:9-10

Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

God won't alter His commands because as they were in the beginning so shall they be in the end.

PURPOSE IN PATTERNS, REVELATIONS IN SHADOWS !!!

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. - Mat 16:17 KJV

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. - 1Co 2:14 KJV

Reading through this thread and its responses is very telling and confirms alot.

The TORAH is spiritual and is revealed by the Spirit of YAH. It is one thing not to get it or understand it but a whole other thing to argue against it and then to claim that its author alters his commands is __________________________ !!!!!!!

My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. - Psa 89:34 KJV
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Mat 7:14 KJV

Trying to prove YAH does something that he literally said he does not do is NOT of the ruach hakodesh.... simple.

Shalom Love and Blessings

 

[The Revolting Man]

And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount. - Exo 25:40 KJV

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. - Heb 8:5 KJV



PURPOSE IN PATTERNS, REVELATIONS IN SHADOWS !!!

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. - Mat 16:17 KJV

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. - 1Co 2:14 KJV

Reading through this thread and its responses is very telling and confirms alot.

The TORAH is spiritual and is revealed by the Spirit of YAH. It is one thing not to get it or understand it but a whole other thing to argue against it and then to claim that its author alters his commands is __________________________ !!!!!!!

My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. - Psa 89:34 KJV
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Mat 7:14 KJV

Trying to prove YAH does something that he literally said he does not do is NOT of the ruach hakodesh.... simple.

Shalom Love and Blessings

You took no stance. What side are you on? Everyone reads those verses and everyone comes up with their own interpretation. What is your interpretation?

 

[JudahYAHites]

You took no stance. What side are you on?

Issue number one....

Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? - Exo 32:26a KJV

Your viewpoint is skewed

Everyone reads those verses and everyone comes up with their own interpretation. What is your interpretation?

Issue number two...

Gen 3:1 KJV...Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? ... And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. - Gen 3:1, 4-5 KJV.

personal interpretation is the bed wench of deception and religions

I believe what YAH said...

My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. - Psa 89:34 KJV

Do you believe Psalm 89:34 @The Revolting Man ?

 

[NickF]

You missed the whole point. Read the story.

They were being 'instructed' - WRONG.

Thus, as He said, the "change in the priesthood."

Yeshua gave two sets of instructions to His followers on how they were to conduct themselves. Which set is valid now? They differ. You say they’re unchanged. The text says otherwise as far as I can tell. Can you explain how those two sets of instructions are the same?

 

[Earth_is-]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Isaiah 51:7 KJV
Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law (torah)

Psalm 119:142 KJV
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law (torah) is the truth.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived.

Romans 6:15-16 KJV
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness

Matthew 5:20
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (adherence to the torah), ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

The pharisees were righteous when they were teaching and obeying torah. They were un-righteous when they were adding and taking away from torah, and teaching others likewise.

Do not be like the pharisees. Do not follow their example. Modern Day Israel has not changed (if anything they've gotten worse) - they still teach the talmud (oral traditions), which add and take away from torah. If sin is transgression of law (torah), and believers are instructed not to continue practicing sin - then any church that refuses to give them the Word of Truth (what's written in the torah, writings, and the prophets), they are keeping their congregation in darkness and perpetual sin. That's why we see young Christians with tattoos, and fornicating (dis-regarding commandments like Exodus 22:16). It leads to lawlessness.

Edit: One more for good measure:

Matthew 6:31-33 NKJV

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

 

[Mark C]

Yeshua gave two sets of instructions to His followers on how they were to conduct themselves. Which set is valid now? They differ...

I don't see where you get two sets of 'commandments'. Much less how they differ.

Bear in mind, I'm a stickler that the Hebrew word "torah" should be better rendered as "instruction" than "Law." Because it is far more than JUST "statutes, judgments, and commandments."

Remember that Yahushua Himself VERY frequently taught in parables. They applied His commandments to SPECIFIC situations. Like those who are ready for more than "milk" should be able to do.

It's part of the reason I suggest the OTHER 'razor' that we should be able to apply to what might otherwise seem like 'confusing' scenarios is to "choose life."


Hopefully that helps.

 

[PastorLarry]

I’m disappointed Mark, a teacher who’s been teaching as long as you ought to know that.

Mark 6:8-12 KJVS
[8] And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save h a staff only; no scrip, i no bread, no money j in their purse: [9] But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats. [10] And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place. [11] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. [12] And they went out, and preached that men should repent. …

Luke 22:36-38 KJVS
[36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: u and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. [37] For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. [38] And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. …


So when followers go out, should they take a sword or not? His instructions changed yet He is unchanged.

I normally carry a 357 magnum.