-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
Will the AntiChrist be queer??
- Thread starter Elijahsfire
- Start date
I've always thought that it was the abomination of desolations that we should be trying to figure out. That seems like when things get real.
True dat. IMO the key to that is in Daniel 8, 11, and 12. The primary key is the man that begins a count when he removes the daily sacrifice. EDIT. He actually begins two counts, both of the counts start at the same time.
The info in Daniel 9 is not a match for the last days Antichrist but rather a perfect match for the events of Christ’s crucifixion and the destruction of the city by Titus. Also, no mention of the daily sacrifice, rather the sacrifice and oblation is taken away which is specifically the Passover.
The count in Daniel 8 &12 combined with the schedule of events in Daniel 11 indubitably flush the majority of modern last day teachings down the porcelain throne.
So your not Pretrib? The Jewish wedding and the feast point to a pretrib rapture.
I haven't looked at this in some time so please take all this as speculation, but thd last time I looked I found three "rapture" events. It's just not a very well formed idea as far as I can tell. The idea of a pretrib rapture is very comforting but I am not entirely sure there will be a rapture until Jesus splits the eastern sky. I don't really know that there won't be either to be honest. The Revelation is notoriously hard to decipher.
Perry does a lot of good teaching on the Rapture.
This one was the first I cam too but it breaks it down well.
I didn’t say that necessarily. From what I’ve found it is most likely a Yom Kippur “rapture” (or smaller possibility Yom Teruah) which would place it 10 or 11 days inside the 7 years.
What I am saying is that Schofield and Darby’s model is so fatally flawed that it only gets things right like a broken clock.
Virtually everyone I’ve seen presents some variation of Darby’s model as their foundation.
The feast of trumps makes most sense to me. Trumpets was the first fall feast and Pentecost was the last festival prophetically filled. Plus Jesus said no one would know the day or the hour which dealt with a 24 hour period and was a nice allusion to the feast of Trumpets since it was the only feast based on a new moon and can happen in a 2 day period. Plus the last trump mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4 was known at the time to be referring to the last Trump blast on Trumpets.. And when We have 3 feast prophetically left to fill and Trumpets is next.
It’s true that FoT is next and it is important, but it is the marker of the last trump while the DoA is the marker of the Great Trump in a Jubilee year when everything returns to its rightful owner without cost or price.
Also, most people include the Eighth Day of Tabernacles with the feast of Tabernacles, however, according to Leviticus 23 it is its own holy convocation, just like the other 7. It’s the hidden feast day
Also, most people include the Eighth Day of Tabernacles with the feast of Tabernacles, however, according to Leviticus 23 it is its own holy convocation, just like the other 7. It’s the hidden feast day
I forgot to mention and I could be wrong but Trumpets is the only feast that God doesn't give us a reason why we celebrate it, making it a mystery. And Paul speaks of the rapture as a mystery.
It’s the beginning of the year and the advent of Creation.
It’s also a warning, I.e. the last trump. Day of Atonement is coming. You have ten days to humble yourself and fast and pray and examine yourself before your sentence is pronounced or you are acquitted righteous through the work of your advocate.
Feast of Trumpets also follows 30 days of sounding the shofar once per day to warn people to repent and prepare.
An interesting parallel is John the Baptist began preaching repent and be baptized. Christ came to him at Jordan on the first of Elul to be baptized, then was transported by the Spirit to be tested in the wilderness for 40 days, then shows up in a synagogue in Galilee and reads the passage from Isaiah 61. The significant part of this is that is the passage that is supposed to be read on Day of Atonement in a Jubilee year when the Great Trump is to sound throughout the land. The year he began his ministry was the last recorded Land Jubilee Israel experienced. Israel was destroyed before the next one. Christ tells them “this day this prophecy is fullfilled”.
The origination of this parallel is in Exodus 32-34 when Moses says perhaps I can make Atonement for you, (1st of Elul) then goes up on the mountain for 40 days and when he returns his face shines so brightly from the glory of God that they ask him to cover his face. This day is where the idea of coming “face to face” with God and knowing your sins are covered originates. The Israelites were repenting for 40 days while their fate was being determined.
Feast of Trumpets is the day the books are opened, Day of Atonement is the day the books are closed. Those who are covered/atoned will proceed to the Feast of Tabernacles and the Eighth day, the Great Day of the feast which is when the Bride is introduced and publicly acknowledged.
Those who are not covered/atoned will be turned over for destruction. This is why the covering is so important. In Jewish Law a woman could not be a witness for herself or others. Without an Advocate or covering she was doomed from the start just as we are. A woman trying to justify herself would have a negative effect on the outcome just as those men in Matthew 7 that Christ says depart from me I never knew you.
It’s also a warning, I.e. the last trump. Day of Atonement is coming. You have ten days to humble yourself and fast and pray and examine yourself before your sentence is pronounced or you are acquitted righteous through the work of your advocate.
Feast of Trumpets also follows 30 days of sounding the shofar once per day to warn people to repent and prepare.
An interesting parallel is John the Baptist began preaching repent and be baptized. Christ came to him at Jordan on the first of Elul to be baptized, then was transported by the Spirit to be tested in the wilderness for 40 days, then shows up in a synagogue in Galilee and reads the passage from Isaiah 61. The significant part of this is that is the passage that is supposed to be read on Day of Atonement in a Jubilee year when the Great Trump is to sound throughout the land. The year he began his ministry was the last recorded Land Jubilee Israel experienced. Israel was destroyed before the next one. Christ tells them “this day this prophecy is fullfilled”.
The origination of this parallel is in Exodus 32-34 when Moses says perhaps I can make Atonement for you, (1st of Elul) then goes up on the mountain for 40 days and when he returns his face shines so brightly from the glory of God that they ask him to cover his face. This day is where the idea of coming “face to face” with God and knowing your sins are covered originates. The Israelites were repenting for 40 days while their fate was being determined.
Feast of Trumpets is the day the books are opened, Day of Atonement is the day the books are closed. Those who are covered/atoned will proceed to the Feast of Tabernacles and the Eighth day, the Great Day of the feast which is when the Bride is introduced and publicly acknowledged.
Those who are not covered/atoned will be turned over for destruction. This is why the covering is so important. In Jewish Law a woman could not be a witness for herself or others. Without an Advocate or covering she was doomed from the start just as we are. A woman trying to justify herself would have a negative effect on the outcome just as those men in Matthew 7 that Christ says depart from me I never knew you.
Here’s an interesting portion of the Book of Gad who was a contemporary of Nathan and was a major prophet to David. This excerpt is taken from Ken Johnsons commentary on the book and is available thru Amazon. This book is a source document for many ideas found in scripture like a new Jerusalem and face to face etc. The only earlier mention I’m aware of re the day when the sons of God gather is in Job. Dates, chapter headings and blocks are Kens commentary.
14. The Great Tribulation Rosh Hashanah 2926 AM, 999 BC
1And it came to pass on the first day of the seventh month, at New Year’s, in the four hundred and seventy-eighth year after the children of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the second year of King Solomon’s reign over Israel, I had a vision from the LORD, when I was upon the Gihon spring [south of the city of David] 2And I raised my eyes, and lo, the heavens rolled back like a scroll, and I saw the glory of the LORD, sitting on an extremely high throne. 3And here is the appearance of the throne: twelve stairs led up to the throne (six of gold and six of silver), and there was a square back to the throne, like a sapphire stone. 4And at its right side were three chairs and at its left side were four chairs near the throne, like the seven[ xl] that see the king’s face, covered with gold and silver and precious stones. 5And the glory of the LORD had the appearance like that of the rainbow, His covenant. 6And the host of heaven were standing before Him on His right hand and on His left, and Satan was standing by them, but behind them. The Books 7And then a man dressed in linen brought before the glory of the LORD three books that contained the records of every man. 8And he read the first book and it contained the just deeds of His people, and the LORD said, “These are granted eternal life.” 9And Satan said, “Who are these guilty people?” And the man dressed in linen cried to Satan like a ram’s horn saying, “Silence! This day is holy to our Lord.” 10And he read the second book, and it contained the unintentional sins of His people, and the LORD said, “Put that book aside, but save it, until one third of the month passes by, to see what they will do.” 11And he read the third book, and it contained the wicked deeds of His people. 12And the LORD said to Satan, “These are your share. Take them and do what you want with them.” 13And Satan took the wicked to a waste land to destroy them there. 14And the man dressed in linen cried like a ram’s horn, saying: 15“ Blessed are the people who know the joyful shout [who look toward the Rapture], O LORD, who walk in the light of Your countenance.”
14. The Great Tribulation Rosh Hashanah 2926 AM, 999 BC
1And it came to pass on the first day of the seventh month, at New Year’s, in the four hundred and seventy-eighth year after the children of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the second year of King Solomon’s reign over Israel, I had a vision from the LORD, when I was upon the Gihon spring [south of the city of David] 2And I raised my eyes, and lo, the heavens rolled back like a scroll, and I saw the glory of the LORD, sitting on an extremely high throne. 3And here is the appearance of the throne: twelve stairs led up to the throne (six of gold and six of silver), and there was a square back to the throne, like a sapphire stone. 4And at its right side were three chairs and at its left side were four chairs near the throne, like the seven[ xl] that see the king’s face, covered with gold and silver and precious stones. 5And the glory of the LORD had the appearance like that of the rainbow, His covenant. 6And the host of heaven were standing before Him on His right hand and on His left, and Satan was standing by them, but behind them. The Books 7And then a man dressed in linen brought before the glory of the LORD three books that contained the records of every man. 8And he read the first book and it contained the just deeds of His people, and the LORD said, “These are granted eternal life.” 9And Satan said, “Who are these guilty people?” And the man dressed in linen cried to Satan like a ram’s horn saying, “Silence! This day is holy to our Lord.” 10And he read the second book, and it contained the unintentional sins of His people, and the LORD said, “Put that book aside, but save it, until one third of the month passes by, to see what they will do.” 11And he read the third book, and it contained the wicked deeds of His people. 12And the LORD said to Satan, “These are your share. Take them and do what you want with them.” 13And Satan took the wicked to a waste land to destroy them there. 14And the man dressed in linen cried like a ram’s horn, saying: 15“ Blessed are the people who know the joyful shout [who look toward the Rapture], O LORD, who walk in the light of Your countenance.”
C
Cap
Guest
I don't disagree with the gathering of the elect, the overcomers. But that is different than the church and I believe that God does not call the the overcommers, the Bride out of this world, but to fulfill her purpose in bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to Earth. The modern day version of the 'rapturing' the 'saints' out of here is incorrect as far as I can see. I do believe that when the Spirit of Elijah comes, the Holy Spirit, their will be a revival unprecedented in the world that will bring enlightenment that will seem like a rapture.
However, we all, believers and non believers, experience a rapture at some point.
Just my view.
Last edited by a moderator:
C
Cap
Guest
1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
Is this verse specifically stating a single man or the spirit of man in general that denies Christ, is coming and has already come? How does this verse boil down to one all powerful evil man that goes against the Son of God?
If
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved defines a believer (multitude)
then
1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son defines the antichrist (multitude).
Not an individual man that gets into an epic battle with the Son of God.
Is this verse specifically stating a single man or the spirit of man in general that denies Christ, is coming and has already come? How does this verse boil down to one all powerful evil man that goes against the Son of God?
If
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved defines a believer (multitude)
then
1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son defines the antichrist (multitude).
Not an individual man that gets into an epic battle with the Son of God.
I don't have many settled opinions on the details of Revelations. But I can say many of the questionable interpretations I've seen mostly involve providing reasons for why we won't be around to suffer the worst of it (i.e. pre-trib rapture, or the mark of the beast already happened, or all revelation has already been fulfilled, or all but the last judgement has been fulfilled). This becomes very dangerous in so far as it gives Christians self justification to take the mark; given the strong penalty for that.
So the ekklesia is a gathering or assembly of several or many eklektos.
In English that would translate as the church is a gathering or assembly of the elect.
In Matthew 24:31 you find the phrase “and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.†.”
The bold words are from the Greek episynago autos eklektos. Episynago is formed from the prefix epi combined with the word synago. Synago is the root word for synagogue which we know is where people assembled to study scripture. So the phrase basically means a super gathering of the elect to Christ in the air per Matthew 24 among other passages like 1 Thessalonians 4.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 has the same phrase and idea
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Followed by info on a specific man who apparently matches information given by Christ in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel in Daniel 11:31 & 8:11-14 and John in Rev 13:1-8
You are correct that there is both a spirit of Antichrist that is evidenced in those who deny that Jesus is The son of God, and that there have been antichrists through history. Neither of those being true is evidence against a third mention of a specific man who will do all these things.
Matthew 24:31 says the Elect will be gathered together. It doesn't say they will be taken away, just gathered together. That's interesting to ponder.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 states "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." The bolded words are very interesting.
"the clouds" is νεφέλη (nephele), and means cloudiness, or a cloud (others could confirm if it is necessarily plural, I'm struggling to work that out). If you go through the other times it appears in scripture, it usually refers to a cloud with a spiritual connotation - the cloud of God leading the Israelites in the Exodus, a cloud that God speaks out of etc. Interestingly, in Greek mythology, nephele is a cloud nymph - a cloud that Zeus fashioned into a woman - and is not actually the normal word used for cloud but appears to specifically refer to her. This simply confirms from an external source that this word often has a spiritual connotation rather than just meaning "the clouds".
Point being: This doesn't necessarily refer to the normal clouds high in the sky, but could refer to the cloud of God's presence.
"the air" is ἀήρ (aer), meaning the air we breathe, the lower atmosphere. It does not denote the sky, but always very specifically refers to the air lower down, where we normally live.
So this could also very simply mean that we are gathered together, in the cloud of God's presence as experienced by the Israelites and others through scripture, but still down on the earth somewhere.
Neither verse necessarily says we're going to be carried off into the sky. Something very interesting is going to happen, but I don't think it will be anything like the "rapture" is pictured.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 states "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." The bolded words are very interesting.
"the clouds" is νεφέλη (nephele), and means cloudiness, or a cloud (others could confirm if it is necessarily plural, I'm struggling to work that out). If you go through the other times it appears in scripture, it usually refers to a cloud with a spiritual connotation - the cloud of God leading the Israelites in the Exodus, a cloud that God speaks out of etc. Interestingly, in Greek mythology, nephele is a cloud nymph - a cloud that Zeus fashioned into a woman - and is not actually the normal word used for cloud but appears to specifically refer to her. This simply confirms from an external source that this word often has a spiritual connotation rather than just meaning "the clouds".
Point being: This doesn't necessarily refer to the normal clouds high in the sky, but could refer to the cloud of God's presence.
"the air" is ἀήρ (aer), meaning the air we breathe, the lower atmosphere. It does not denote the sky, but always very specifically refers to the air lower down, where we normally live.
So this could also very simply mean that we are gathered together, in the cloud of God's presence as experienced by the Israelites and others through scripture, but still down on the earth somewhere.
Neither verse necessarily says we're going to be carried off into the sky. Something very interesting is going to happen, but I don't think it will be anything like the "rapture" is pictured.
The interesting part for me was when I realized that Matthew 24:29-31 is a companion passage to Rev 6:9- 7:3. Revelation just has additional info past the episynago. In Rev 5 there is a pic of the throne room with quite a few different entities. In Rev 7:9-17 there’s another pic of the throne room and the only additional group of peeps is a great multitude that no man can number on the Feast of Tabernacles. (Compare Rev 9:9 with Lev 23:40).
The crazy part is that these are people who have come out of great tribulation and this event happens before the Seven Trumpets begin. See Rev 7:1-3. These angels are the trumpet blowers who have the power to hurt the earth, trees, and seas. This also matches with the events and sequence recorded in Matthew 24
The crazy part is that these are people who have come out of great tribulation and this event happens before the Seven Trumpets begin. See Rev 7:1-3. These angels are the trumpet blowers who have the power to hurt the earth, trees, and seas. This also matches with the events and sequence recorded in Matthew 24