Will the AntiChrist be queer??

[Cap]

So the ekklesia is a gathering or assembly of several or many eklektos.

In English that would translate as the church is a gathering or assembly of the elect.

In Matthew 24:31 you find the phrase “and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.†.”

The bold words are from the Greek episynago autos eklektos. Episynago is formed from the prefix epi combined with the word synago. Synago is the root word for synagogue which we know is where people assembled to study scripture. So the phrase basically means a super gathering of the elect to Christ in the air per Matthew 24 among other passages like 1 Thessalonians 4.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 has the same phrase and idea
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Followed by info on a specific man who apparently matches information given by Christ in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel in Daniel 11:31 & 8:11-14 and John in Rev 13:1-8

You are correct that there is both a spirit of Antichrist that is evidenced in those who deny that Jesus is The son of God, and that there have been antichrists through history. Neither of those being true is evidence against a third mention of a specific man who will do all these things.

Matthew 24:31 says the Elect will be gathered together. It doesn't say they will be taken away, just gathered together. That's interesting to ponder.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 states "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." The bolded words are very interesting.
"the clouds" is νεφέλη (nephele), and means cloudiness, or a cloud (others could confirm if it is necessarily plural, I'm struggling to work that out). If you go through the other times it appears in scripture, it usually refers to a cloud with a spiritual connotation - the cloud of God leading the Israelites in the Exodus, a cloud that God speaks out of etc. Interestingly, in Greek mythology, nephele is a cloud nymph - a cloud that Zeus fashioned into a woman - and is not actually the normal word used for cloud but appears to specifically refer to her. This simply confirms from an external source that this word often has a spiritual connotation rather than just meaning "the clouds".
Point being: This doesn't necessarily refer to the normal clouds high in the sky, but could refer to the cloud of God's presence.
"the air" is ἀήρ (aer), meaning the air we breathe, the lower atmosphere. It does not denote the sky, but always very specifically refers to the air lower down, where we normally live.
So this could also very simply mean that we are gathered together, in the cloud of God's presence as experienced by the Israelites and others through scripture, but still down on the earth somewhere.

Neither verse necessarily says we're going to be carried off into the sky. Something very interesting is going to happen, but I don't think it will be anything like the "rapture" is pictured.

Hebrews 12:1 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

I don't' disagree with the statements @Verifyveritas76 has made in regards to the gathering of the elect in some form or fashion that further God's Kingdom here on earth. It's the modern day end times pushers that claim Christians are going to be snatched away to some far of wonderland that I have a problem with. I believe that God is preparing a cloud of witness, in our time, that will have a strong testimony to help bring the lost into a preordained relationship with their Creator, while they are here on this earth. They, the Elect, will not be taken away but given power to do the work that the prophets of old only could see from a distance. If there is anyone that will be taken away it would be the lost to the Lake of Fire, but even that is not eternal.

If one combines the comments made by @Verifyveritas76 (without the reference to snatching away to some cloud) and @FollowingHim we get a closer picture of the future as far as a tribulation is concerned.

You are correct that there is both a spirit of Antichrist that is evidenced in those who deny that Jesus is The son of God, and that there have been antichrists through history. Neither of those being true is evidence against a third mention of a specific man who will do all these things.

I don't see this, but that doesn't mean I am right.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6:15, 16. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 14:2, 3. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told†you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come-again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

If He’s coming back in the clouds, and the kings of the earth (presumably pagans Rev 6:16) are attempting to hide from his view, it seems to me that it would be most likely that they are actual clouds as opposed to metaphorical clouds.

If they are actual clouds that He’s seen in, and He gathers us to Himself so that we can go to His Fathers house, which is apparently in the vicinity of the throne room, I don’t understand why we wouldnt be assembled with Him in the actual physical clouds to then be taken to His Fathers house.

 

[Cap]

Ezekiel 1 4I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.

Trying to take verses like these, including all of Revelations, and the New Testament ones that reference the end times literally is really a difficult thing to try and make them fit into our world.

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

Ezekiel 1 4I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.

Trying to take verses like these, including all of Revelations, and the New Testament ones that reference the end times literally is really a difficult thing to try and make them fit into our world.

I don't think its that hard. Cool fact is that what Ezekiel is describing there is a Cherub. The neat thing about that is that Satan isn't an Angel like most of us think. He was the anointed Cherub in Ezekiel 28 which means he looks like one of these creatures. Then you can tie in how he is the Prince of the Power of the Air "Eagle", He is going about like a roaring Lion looking for whom he can devour "Lion" and so on...

That is a really big digression from the conversation though.

I have to agree with Verifyveritas76. Paul describes it as a mystery but is alluded to all over scripture.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

 

[The Revolting Man]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 states "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

This is what leads me to suspect that those who are still here in the Last Days will not be "raptured" but instead will meet Christ in the sky and go with Him to the last battle.

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

Malachi 3 is some more verses that speak of the Rapture before the Tribulation. And brings in a new concept of the Book of Remembrance which prob deserves its on Thread.

The Lord’s Promise of Mercy
16Then those who feared the Lord spoke with each other, and the Lord listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and always thought about the honor of his name.
17“They will be my people,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. “On the day when I act in judgment, they will be my own special treasure. I will spare them as a father spares an obedient child. 18Then you will again see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.”

 

[Cap]

I don't think its that hard. Cool fact is that what Ezekiel is describing there is a Cherub. The neat thing about that is that Satan isn't an Angel like most of us think. He was the anointed Cherub in Ezekiel 28 which means he looks like one of these creatures. Then you can tie in how he is the Prince of the Power of the Air "Eagle", He is going about like a roaring Lion looking for whom he can devour "Lion" and so on...

That is a really big digression from the conversation though.

I have to agree with Verifyveritas76. Paul describes it as a mystery but is alluded to all over scripture.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Have you ever seen a cherub? I haven't. At least I don't think so.

 

[Cap]

This is what leads me to suspect that those who are still here in the Last Days will not be "raptured" but instead will meet Christ in the sky and go with Him to the last battle.

Where is the last battle?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Where is the last battle?

I don't know.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Malachi 3 is some more verses that speak of the Rapture before the Tribulation.

I’m just gonna say that associating the 7 years as either Tribulation or Great Tribulation is the biggest mistake Darby and later Schofield made

The mantra is that Tribulation is the same thing as Wrath therefore Great Tribulation is the same thing as Great Wrath. Since we will be saved from Wrath, we will by default be saved from Tribulation etc.

This idea is so easily proven wrong by comparing 1 Thessalonians 3:3 with 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as it is the same man writing the same letter

That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.†.
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Thlipsis and Thlibo are the two words always used to translate the word Tribulation from. So according to these verses, we are in fact appointed to Tribulation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

According to the same letter a bit later, Paul states that we are not appointed to wrath. They are obviously not the same words and the two are distinctly segregated by recipient. Tribulation for us, Wrath for unbelievers.

According to 1 Thessalonians 3:4 Paul mentioned something previously to the church about being appointed to Tribulation. Could Acts 14:22 be the passage? Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

More later. Gotta feed the income machine now

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

I’m just gonna say that associating the 7 years as either Tribulation or Great Tribulation is the biggest mistake Darby and later Schofield made

The mantra is that Tribulation is the same thing as Wrath therefore Great Tribulation is the same thing as Great Wrath. Since we will be saved from Wrath, we will by default be saved from Tribulation etc.

This idea is so easily proven wrong by comparing 1 Thessalonians 3:3 with 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as it is the same man writing the same letter

That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.†.
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Thlipsis and Thlibo are the two words always used to translate the word Tribulation from. So according to these verses, we are in fact appointed to Tribulation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

According to the same letter a bit later, Paul states that we are not appointed to wrath. They are obviously not the same words and the two are distinctly segregated by recipient. Tribulation for us, Wrath for unbelievers.

According to 1 Thessalonians 3:4 Paul mentioned something previously to the church about being appointed to Tribulation. Could Acts 14:22 be the passage? Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

More later. Gotta feed the income machine now

Thlipsis is the word translated to tribulim in Latin which is where we get the word tribulation from. Tribilum however was a device made for crushing wheat. Now this is where the feast come in. There are 3 fall feast tied to 3 harvest. A barley which is first, wheat is second and then third is Grapes. All of these can be seen in Revelation. The first is the Rapture which is the Barley harvest. Second is wheat but wheat requires a process. It must be crushed with a tribulim to remove the hard outer shell. This is the picture of the martyrs who don't take the mark and who make their robes white. Lastly is the grape harvest which are the Jews. The word tribulation is used because there will be a pressing going on in the earth but it won't be for all God's people. That is where the book of Remembrance comes in. If your name is in that book I believe you will be spared of the coming tribulation. In Malachi 3:17 he says he will "make up his jewels". Heard a Jewish scholar talk about the word translated there. He said the picture of the word is to for example snatch a child out of the road when a car is coming.

Another reason to believe in the Rapture is patterns. God does everything very precisely. It is his signature. After his Death Jesus returned to Heaven twice. Once secretly and once Publicly. The first time Mary sees him outside of the tomb Mary wants to hug him and in John 20:17 he says don't touch me for I have not yet ascended. He is preparing to offer his blood on the mercy seat of heaven and he is filling the roll of the High Priest and the high Priest couldn't be touched before he went into the Holy of Hollies or you would make him unclean. Later though he sees Thomas and tells Thomas to touch him which means he had ascended secretly between these two points in time. And then later he gives the great commission and is taken up in a cloud publicly. Now I said all of that to say this. His first return will not be public but secret. That is a picture of the Rapture. His second will be Public. That is him returning and setting foot on the mount of Olives and splitting it in two.

And the last reason we have to be there is the pastern of becoming a king. That is what is happening in Revelation. Jesus is not in the roll of king right now. He is setting as high priest. In revelation he is becoming king. That is what the seals are about. In Jesus' time you would seal a will with wax and your ring. When it was time to open the letter, yourself or your representatives with the ring must be present to open the scroll. Each seal represents a Church age and they have to be present for there seal to be broken and the contents read.

 

[PeteR]

I do believe that when the Spirit of Elijah comes, the Holy Spirit, their will be a revival unprecedented in the world that will bring enlightenment that will seem like a rapture.

Curious, but how do you support the 'Spirit of Elijah?'

 

[Joleneakamama]

And the last reason we have to be there is the pastern of becoming a king

The pattern already happened with David. He was anointed king, and was acknowledged as king by some discerning believers many years before he took the throne.
"All power and authority has been given me in heaven and earth" equals KING! This was followed by instruction/commands "Go into all the world....baptise those who believe"
Yes there will come a time when it will be apparent to all that He is king "every knee will bow and every tongue confess " but that doesn't mean He isnt King now!

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

David was anointed 3 times to be King before he filled the role of King. He was a king but not in the role yet. Jesus is the same now. He is becoming King in Revelations. His command was a command stated as a high priest. In his king role he is going to conquer, rule and reign. As Jesus becomes king wrath starts to be poured out on the earth. In Revelation 17:10 we see him as King. Thats why there are vials, trumpets, 4 horses with the 4 particular colors and seals. It all is the pattern of the ritual of a king becoming a king. I have to go to school or I would do better to try and pull this thought together.

 

[PeteR]

David was anointed 3 times to be King before he filled the role of King. He was a king but not in the role yet. Jesus is the same now. He is becoming King in Revelations. His command was a command stated as a high priest. In his king role he is going to conquer, rule and reign. As Jesus becomes king wrath starts to be poured out on the earth. In Revelation 17:10 we see him as King. Thats why there are vials, trumpets, 4 horses with the 4 particular colors and seals. It all is the pattern of the ritual of a king becoming a king. I have to go to school or I would do better to try and pull this thought together.

Interested in the details...

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Now I said all of that to say this. His first return will not be public but secret.

From what I can find both will be very public. The “secret rapture” idea came about because Darby and Schofield conflated mentions of his next coming with mentions of his final at Armageddon. By doing so, they misidentified the evidence of a public episynago leaving them with only oblique vague references that they then labeled a “secret rapture”.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Each seal represents a Church age and they have to be present for there seal to be broken and the contents read.

How do you know that they represent a “church age”?

I identify the term “church ages” with dispensationalism, and though I can see “dispensations” in Scripture (as in The Garden, The Beginning of Civilization, The Noah Period/Abraham, the Mosaic Period, the Messiah period and the King period) the idea of “church ages” and dispensationalism Ive found to be created out of thin air, leaps of logic, vague coincidences and a great marketing campaign. FWIW, I was raised in both fundamentalism and dispensationalism and have found both to be grossly lacking in substance though I consider myself a fundamental believer and acknowledge dispensations, just not the ‘isms’ or their stated ideas.

I am curious why you think that the seals represent a church age? Or that the churches represented by the seals have to be present for them to be opened. I have more info on this but I’ll wait your response.

Peace Love and all the fuzzy stuff.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

That is where the book of Remembrance comes in. If your name is in that book I believe you will be spared of the coming tribulation.

I would say that you and I are in agreement on this with one small distinction. If your name is in that book I believe you will be spared of the coming seven years ish.

I can find no mention Scripturally connecting tribulation with the seven years. You can imagine my surprise to find that the word thilipsis is not mentioned after the Sixth Seal, and the word thlibo is not mentioned in Revelation. To make matters worse, the context of tribulation in Rev 7:14 is that the great multitude has come out of Great Tribulation, approximately 3 1/2 years before its even supposed to start and 7 years before its supposed to end according to the Darby/Schofield model. Oooops!

You can also imagine my surprise to find that in the Fifth Seal, neither judgement nor vengeance has begun yet and wont for just a little while.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I would struggle with the idea of a secret return of Jesus. I might be misunderstanding your assertion though. It does seem like we were told though that we know for sure when He came and not to be deceived by any pretenders.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I can also find to corroboration to a Rev 4:1 Rapture of the Church. If its anything, its at best a Rapture of One, very similar to the 2 Corinthians 12:2 event with Paul, though dissimilar to the Revelations 11:12 Rapture of Two and the 2 Kings 2:11 Rapture of One.

The Rev 4 and 2 Cor.12 events are a spiritual rapture. The Rev 11 and 2 Kings 2 events are a physical rapture witnessed by others as is also the Luke 24:51 and Mark 16:19 of Christ.

Neither of them are satisfactory for a massive ekklesia exodus except in type.