Will the AntiChrist be queer??

[Verifyveritas76]

I would struggle with the idea of a secret return of Jesus. I might be misunderstanding your assertion though. It does seem like we were told though that we know for sure when He came and not to be deceived by any pretenders.

Exactly. Also 1 Thessalonians 5 says that we should know basically everything but the day and hour if we are the children of light. Only the children of darkness would be in the . . . Um . . . Dark!

The idea that it could happen at any moment is a blunder of epic proportions based upon the phrases No one knows but the Father and no man knows the day nor the hour. Both of these are Jewish idioms that (along with the “last trump”) point to one of two very specific feast days.

There is also a moment where Jews that have rejected him as their Messiah will see the nail prints and the wound in his side. As best I can tell, this is where He appears for the episynago and they are not gathered also. Jer 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved. The point is they view him physically.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

There are 3 fall feast tied to 3 harvest. A barley which is first, wheat is second and then third is Grapes.

You may wanna double check these. Barley should be at Passover, Wheat at Pentecost and Grapes and everything else prior to/around Feast of Trumpets

 

[FollowingHim]

Thlipsis is the word translated to tribulim in Latin which is where we get the word tribulation from. Tribilum however was a device made for crushing wheat. Now this is where the feast come in. There are 3 fall feast tied to 3 harvest. A barley which is first, wheat is second and then third is Grapes. All of these can be seen in Revelation. The first is the Rapture which is the Barley harvest. Second is wheat but wheat requires a process. It must be crushed with a tribulim to remove the hard outer shell. This is the picture of the martyrs who don't take the mark and who make their robes white. Lastly is the grape harvest which are the Jews. The word tribulation is used because there will be a pressing going on in the earth but it won't be for all God's people. That is where the book of Remembrance comes in. If your name is in that book I believe you will be spared of the coming tribulation. In Malachi 3:17 he says he will "make up his jewels". Heard a Jewish scholar talk about the word translated there. He said the picture of the word is to for example snatch a child out of the road when a car is coming.

A tribulim is not for 'crushing' wheat, but for 'threshing' it (it's latin for 'flail'), to separate the wheat from the chaff. It does not destroy it, rather it purifies it. The wheat can only be separated from the chaff by going under the tribulim. If it is spared from the tribulim then it is not separated, not purified, still unfit for consumption.

You've got the first half right, but then out of nowhere add the wishful thinking statement "but it won't be for all God's people ... If your name is in that book I believe you will be spared of the coming tribulation".

If all in the Book are spared, then who is the wheat being threshed?

Rather, all go through the threshing. Those who are in the Book are the wheat, those who are not are the chaff. The threshing separates the wheat from the chaff. Then the wheat is gathered in as the harvest, and the chaff is cast into the fire.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Imagine my surprise when I was doing a word study on thlipsis and thlibo and found it in Matthew 7:13 @ 14

13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at:†:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow (thlibo/tribulation) is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Also when you look at numerous examples in the Bible, the Israelites went through the 10 plagues and then were delivered. At the moment of delivery wrath/vengeance was enforced. Same for the three Hebrews in the fire, same for Daniel in the lions den, same for Noah and the ark.

In all the cases I’ve found delivery comes thru tribulation and prior to wrath. In some cases, much tribulation or mega thilipsis is a requirement before deliverance

Edit. Please note that I’m not saying that a Darby/Schofield model Great Tribulation is a requirement as their model is jacked.

 

[Cap]

Curious, but how do you support the 'Spirit of Elijah?'

I guess it matters how you see the Elijah that is to return before the coming of the Lord. Is it a single man or a company of men who have the spirit of Elijah.

Luke 1:17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Malachi 4:5 "See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.

Elijah came once as John the Baptist but he will come again, in spirit for us to know the way.

In any event, we should not be looking for the antichrist, single man or company, but the Spirit of Elijah who will show us that way.

 

[steve]

Because strait is the gate, and narrow (thlibo/tribulation) is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

YES!!!
That has a much more realistic feel.

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

I have Church tonight and its bben a while since I have been through this stuff so it may take me some time to get to everything. I see you have the Israelites going through all the plagues but the didn't. Most scholars agree that the Jews didn't suffer any of the plagues citing that God's people aren't appointed unto wrath but also in Exodous 8:22 God puts a seperation between his people and they don't suffer the flies, darkness, ect.

And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.

Also a Tribilum was for crushing/ thrashing.

Above is a picture of Tribullum. They would put rocks or weights on the back and pull it over the Wheat to break the shell off of it. tribulare is the latin word meaning to afflict/apply preasure/ oppress and it is the root word for tribulation.

I was thinking about Revelation and I think there is a misunderstanding on who is applying the pressure. During the tribulation Satan has free reign over the earth and a lot of the destruction we are seeing is because of him, not God. God's wrath is appointed to nonbelievers but not believers. The narrow path that is troublesome isn't troublesome because of God. It is troublesome because of the enemy, the same reason the path to hell is wide. The same applies to the tribulation. There will be those who are not raptured out but know the Bible who know to not take the mark. God's wrath is not reserved for them. They are not martyred by God but rather destroyed by the enemy. They in our terms go through the tribulation. And I believe the martyrs are the wheat.

Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. this mortal must put on immortality.

The dead will be raised and the mortal will put on immortality. The word translated to mortal there means living and liable to die. So we who are living will be transformed. This is the rapture I talk about.

I prob should have linked who i was talking to but i was in a hurry. Glancing over this it looks like a lot of scrambled thoughts. lol.

And please no one get upset about this. I am real quick to leave a conversation that gets heated if it isn't a heaven or hell issue. I really do enjoy discussing prophecy and deep matters though.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Also a Tribilum was for crushing/ thrashing.

Above is a picture of Tribullum. They would put rocks or weights on the back and pull it over the Wheat to break the shell off of it. tribulare is the latin word meaning to afflict/apply preasure/ oppress and it is the root word for tribulation.

Very interesting

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. this mortal must put on immortality.

The dead will be raised and the mortal will put on immortality. The word translated to mortal there means living and liable to die. So we who are living will be transformed. This is the rapture I talk about.

10-4

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I see you have the Israelites going through all the plagues but the didn't. Most scholars agree that the Jews didn't suffer any of the plagues citing that God's people aren't appointed unto wrath but also in Exodous 8:22 God puts a seperation between his people and they don't suffer the flies, darkness, ect.

And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.

My point is that they were still in Egypt under bondage (in a tight spot) while the plagues were going on. Then their bonds get much worse when their Exodus gets close but it’s only for a short time, not years. It culminates with the 10th plague which they experienced in full and were spared only because of the blood.

Just when their deliverance seems assured, they end up between a rock (Pihathiroth) and an impossible place (the sea). Talk about a tight squeeze! That’s when their deliverance supernaturally happens and it coincides with the onset of wrath.

From what I’ve seen, tribulation happens to everyone for the express purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff. Wrath is what happens once the grain is removed and results in the chaff being destroyed.

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come†upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

And please no one get upset about this. I am real quick to leave a conversation that gets heated if it isn't a heaven or hell issue. I really do enjoy discussing prophecy and deep matters though.

Hopefully I haven’t come off as upset. If so, that’s not my intention or outlook. This is one of my hot buttons that I was crazy interested in several years back and did a lot of studying on. I’m really looking forward to your insights as it seems you’re past the intro stage, just don’t be surprised/upset if I question everything.

Also don’t be surprised if I’m not a fan at all about the Darby/Schofield model. It took me a year and a half of intense study to realize its flaws and that it’s primarily their fault that so many are confused about the subject. Just my .02

 

[PeteR]

I guess it matters how you see the Elijah that is to return before the coming of the Lord. Is it a single man or a company of men who have the spirit of Elijah.

Luke 1:17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Malachi 4:5 "See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.

Elijah came once as John the Baptist but he will come again, in spirit for us to know the way.

In any event, we should not be looking for the antichrist, single man or company, but the Spirit of Elijah who will show us that way.

I guess the reason I ask is because most don't know that Malachi and John the baptizer both associate the spirit of Elijah with returning to the Torah of Moses. Malachi goes so far as to say, 'even the statutes and the ordinances...'

The spirit of Elijah is here in increasing power. The hearts of the people are turning to the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and the hearts of the fathers (the Jews) are turning to the sons. Explains the growing Torah awakening.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I have Church tonight and its bben a while since I have been through this stuff so it may take me some time to get to everything. I see you have the Israelites going through all the plagues but the didn't. Most scholars agree that the Jews didn't suffer any of the plagues citing that God's people aren't appointed unto wrath but also in Exodous 8:22 God puts a seperation between his people and they don't suffer the flies, darkness, ect.

And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.

Also a Tribilum was for crushing/ thrashing.

Above is a picture of Tribullum. They would put rocks or weights on the back and pull it over the Wheat to break the shell off of it. tribulare is the latin word meaning to afflict/apply preasure/ oppress and it is the root word for tribulation.

I was thinking about Revelation and I think there is a misunderstanding on who is applying the pressure. During the tribulation Satan has free reign over the earth and a lot of the destruction we are seeing is because of him, not God. God's wrath is appointed to nonbelievers but not believers. The narrow path that is troublesome isn't troublesome because of God. It is troublesome because of the enemy, the same reason the path to hell is wide. The same applies to the tribulation. There will be those who are not raptured out but know the Bible who know to not take the mark. God's wrath is not reserved for them. They are not martyred by God but rather destroyed by the enemy. They in our terms go through the tribulation. And I believe the martyrs are the wheat.

Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. this mortal must put on immortality.

The dead will be raised and the mortal will put on immortality. The word translated to mortal there means living and liable to die. So we who are living will be transformed. This is the rapture I talk about.

I prob should have linked who i was talking to but i was in a hurry. Glancing over this it looks like a lot of scrambled thoughts. lol.

And please no one get upset about this. I am real quick to leave a conversation that gets heated if it isn't a heaven or hell issue. I really do enjoy discussing prophecy and deep matters though.

Welcome to BF cupcake! Now comes the hard stuff. LET ME SEE YOUR WARFACE!!!!

 

[FollowingHim]

Also a Tribilum was for crushing/ thrashing.

Above is a picture of Tribullum. They would put rocks or weights on the back and pull it over the Wheat to break the shell off of it. tribulare is the latin word meaning to afflict/apply preasure/ oppress and it is the root word for tribulation.

I think you're struggling with the agricultural terminology. And as so much of the illustration in the Bible is based on agriculture, it is crucial to get this right in order to understand it.

A Tribullum is for "threshing", NOT for thrashing or crushing. These are very different words. Threshing is a positive concept, thrashing or crushing are negative concepts.

Threshing is the separation of grain (good, desirable) from the husks of the grain, the chaff (undesirable, bad). It requires a lot of force because the grain is so tightly connected to the husk, but it's purpose is to benefit the grain in the end even though it is temporarily difficult. Yes, if you were grain, it would not be nice to have one of those things dragged over you - but the purpose is actually to improve the grain, not to harm it.

Threshing is like shelling walnuts. You apply a lot of pressure, it's not 'nice' for the nut, but it's necessary to remove the shell and until it's done the nut is unfit for consumption.

As @Verifyveritas76 explains:

From what I’ve seen, tribulation happens to everyone for the express purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff. Wrath is what happens once the grain is removed and results in the chaff being destroyed.

 

[FollowingHim]

Further support of this general concept:

Matthew 3:11-12
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The setting is a threshing floor. To be in the state for Christ to winnow the wheat with his fan, it must first have been threshed. So here is a threshing, followed by separation of the righteous and unrighteous, gathering of the righteous (after the threshing, not before) and burning of the unrighteous.

Here's another parallel. This may be talking about a different event. The illustration is different but it serves to give the same message.

Zec 13:8-9
"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."

Again a very difficult time must come, that serves to purify the people and separate them from the unrighteous, and only after going through that are they accepted by God. This illustrates that this is how God works.

You cannot use wheat until it has been threshed, to allow it to be winnowed and become pure and usable.
You cannot use silver or gold until it has been refined, to separate the metal from the rock.

 

[Cap]

Welcome to BF cupcake! Now comes the hard stuff. LET ME SEE YOUR WARFACE!!!!

There are those who prefer a more peaceful method of discussing differences when it comes our individual paths to find God.

Remember retreats are where we come face to face.

 

[Cap]

Further support of this general concept:

Matthew 3:11-12
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The setting is a threshing floor. To be in the state for Christ to winnow the wheat with his fan, it must first have been threshed. So here is a threshing, followed by separation of the righteous and unrighteous, gathering of the righteous (after the threshing, not before) and burning of the unrighteous.

Here's another parallel. This may be talking about a different event. The illustration is different but it serves to give the same message.

Zec 13:8-9
"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."

Again a very difficult time must come, that serves to purify the people and separate them from the unrighteous, and only after going through that are they accepted by God. This illustrates that this is how God works.

You cannot use wheat until it has been threshed, to allow it to be winnowed and become pure and usable.
You cannot use silver or gold until it has been refined, to separate the metal from the rock.

All this further shows that for God to work in our lives there is a fair amount of pressure He applies, which goes against a 'catching away' for some out of tribulation. (I don't remember your position on this so this is not directed at you @FollowingHim )

 

[Cap]

I was thinking about Revelation and I think there is a misunderstanding on who is applying the pressure. During the tribulation Satan has free reign over the earth and a lot of the destruction we are seeing is because of him, not God. God's wrath is appointed to nonbelievers but not believers. The narrow path that is troublesome isn't troublesome because of God. It is troublesome because of the enemy, the same reason the path to hell is wide. The same applies to the tribulation. There will be those who are not raptured out but know the Bible who know to not take the mark. God's wrath is not reserved for them. They are not martyred by God but rather destroyed by the enemy. They in our terms go through the tribulation. And I believe the martyrs are the wheat.

Satan is a tool used by God. Not a force that God battles with.

From what I’ve seen, tribulation happens to everyone for the express purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff. Wrath is what happens once the grain is removed and results in the chaff being destroyed.

Barley Harvest - Those who freely submit to God's salvation plan.
Wheat Harvest - Those in the 'church' who talk the talk but don't walk the walk
Grape Harvest - Unbelievers

But, as @Verifyveritas76 says, everyone will face tribulation.

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

Hopefully I haven’t come off as upset. If so, that’s not my intention or outlook. This is one of my hot buttons that I was crazy interested in several years back and did a lot of studying on. I’m really looking forward to your insights as it seems you’re past the intro stage, just don’t be surprised/upset if I question everything.

Also don’t be surprised if I’m not a fan at all about the Darby/Schofield model. It took me a year and a half of intense study to realize its flaws and that it’s primarily their fault that so many are confused about the subject. Just my .02

its all good. You kind of set me back when you asked me about the church's at the first of Revelation representing church ages. I was like crud, thats a good question. I've always heard it that way and it makes sense... lol And I build other stuff off of that concept so I guess it would pay to know how to arrive at that.

This is finals week so i am back to school but i'll try and hop on here again later tday

 

[Phillip]

its all good. You kind of set me back when you asked me about the church's at the first of Revelation representing church ages. I was like crud, thats a good question. I've always heard it that way and it makes sense... lol And I build other stuff off of that concept so I guess it would pay to know how to arrive at that.

This is finals week so i am back to school but i'll try and hop on here again later tday

Finals first and foremost. You’re thoughts are important, but so is that degree. I guess that’s the dad in me wanting to see people become the best that they can be.