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Support Poly Not For Everyone

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notforme

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From reading G_d's Word, I don't believe that poly is meant for everyone. In fact, Paul says that staying single is a good thing for some.

There may have been instances in the Bible where poly seemed to work out okay, but there were also instances where it did not.

It seems like to me, that a man today who wants to be poly, thinks it will be different for him; all he has to say is G_d is making me do it. He cannot seem to wrap his head around the fact that poly is not for everyone. Some husbands want it and the wife doesn't; some wives want it and the husband doesn't. From reading here and living my life, it seems like pro-poly men today think that their wife is being rebellious if poly isn't for her.

Why does the non-poly wife have to take such a beating (verbally, mentally, and sometimes physically) from her pro-poly husband, when all she is doing is trying to love him the way she said she would when she married him?

I believe that IF poly is "from G_d", then the husband and wife will both be convicted - not just one of them.

I have read on this forum, (over and over), that the first wife needs to submit, quit rebelling, and so on. There are those of us that took our vows on our wedding day, with no intentions of straying from them. Have some made mistakes and strayed from the vows? Yes, (me included unfortunately), but the vows were made "until death do us part", not "until you mess up", or "I changed my mind/beliefs", or "I get tired of you".

I think we all need to continue to stand on G_d's Word and what he teaches each of us, and not let others try to bully us to do something we believe is against G_d's will for us.
 
Practicing PM without the first wife fully on board is, in my opinion, at the least, misguided. Sometimes it works, but I wouldn't choose it to begin that way.

notforme said:
I have read on this forum, (over and over), that the first wife needs to submit, quit rebelling, and so on.
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There was a discussion on this a while back, and the conclusion I came to was that we see it so much on here because of two reasons.
Firstly, it's mostly men that comment on here. I don't know the statistics, but off the top of my head I would say 80-90% of commenters are men, so they're coming from that perspective.
Secondly, there's a lot of theoretical talk on here. Theoretically, a woman has to obey her husband, even if he tells her she has to murder someone. In reality, there is no way anyone here would think that was appropriate or okay in any way. I think that more of the discussion about actual real situations that people are going through is happening in private through private conversations or through one on one phone calls etc, because people don't want their real situations being put on the public forum, which is fair enough. This also means that the solutions to these situations are also spoken about in private, and I can guarantee they're a lot more dialed back than "Tell your wife she has to shut up and obey no matter what you do." It's more like, "What can you do to love and lead your wife through this?"

Also, remember that it's easy to be reading through your own filter based on what's going on in your life. So sometimes certain phrases and words jump out at us, and it upsets us, but it's not the whole forum, it's one comment, from one person, who's normally pretty level headed. Sometimes we need to step back a bit and take a look at the bigger picture.
 
notforme said:
I think we all need to continue to stand on G_d's Word and what he teaches each of us, and not let others try to bully us to do something we believe is against G_d's will for us.
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Amen, but that works both ways. I would say that anyone who asserts that polygamy is for everyone is not only misguided but probably had great difficulty with math after about the 2nd grade. But I don't know if I've ever heard or read anyone assert that polygamy is for everyone, so I can't address such nonsense given that I don't know who is saying it, here or elsewhere.

The converse is also relevant here, though: asserting that monogamy is for everyone would equally be bullying, if one is going to attach that label to anything.

Stand up to bullying, but claiming to be bullied when one is participating in a voluntary online forum should be limited to instances in which one has been singled out for unfair aspersions. I also agree that a husband who discovers the legitimacy of Biblical polygamy then browbeats his wife into submission by claiming that she's possessed of a failure to obey is cretinous, but please don't try to shove all of the men who belong to this community into that bushel basket. Most here do not qualify for the unfair generalization.

We are here to provide support for those who are already have or are seeking to create or become part of plural families, as well as to educate ourselves and those who 'visit' us. I'm sorry if you've gotten the wrong impression based on a minority of expressed viewpoints, but I do hope you won't give up on us too quickly. You really could find some valuable communication if you open yourself up to it. Most of us won't bite unless someone in the context of our polygamous or monogamous private lives simply insists on it!
 
Cap said:
Polygamy is not for everyone, but patriarchy, however that is achieved, is the most likely path to a Godly relationship.
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Nice!
 
Keith Martin said:
I don't know if I've ever heard or read anyone assert that polygamy is for everyone, so I can't address such nonsense given that I don't know who is saying it, here or elsewhere.
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I was not trying to imply that anyone on this forum has stated polygamy is for everyone. I meant it as my own opinion only, going with the thought that because the husband wants it, so should his wife.

Keith Martin said:
Stand up to bullying, but claiming to be bullied when one is participating in a voluntary online forum should be limited to instances in which one has been singled out for unfair aspersions
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Again, not at all trying to say anyone is being bullied here. I was trying to get across, that because the husband has decided to take another wife, I don't feel it is right for him to bully his existing wife(wives) into it.

I know there are men on here that would never do that, but there are also men on the opposite end of that realm. They are going to do it, no matter what. If the wife doesn't like it, she can leave. Many hurtful things are said and done in the process. I see nothing biblical about that approach.

Not pointing fingers at anyone on this forum at all. Just speaking from personal experience.
 
The purpose of Biblical Families forum and site is primarily to promote Biblical families in all of their various forms. The general focus is patriarchy and proper roles in relationships however, we recognize for most of western inculcated feminist Christianity, the simple concepts are somewhat if not entirely foreign. Patriarchy? Nonexistent in the church in even a mono format.

As a result, there are lots of nitty gritty conversations parsing out how this should look and how it should work. Will some read and misunderstand or improperly apply what we are learning, studying, implementing? Of course. But, that is what any pioneer should expect.

As to poly discussion? That is the hardest to learn, understand, apply, etc and something not addressed well anywhere else on the web. If that is 'notforyou' then avoid those discussions. Otherwise, pull up a chair and learn with as we swim in the deeper waters of Scripture and human relationship.

Welcome.
 
I don't think it is considered enough that a plural marriage is a huge fundamental change to the way the rest of your lives are going to be. Just like a monogamous marriage. It goes way beyond who sleeps with who, where, and when.

It is absolutely something that everyone involved needs to accept with eyes and hearts and minds wide open.

I think all @notforme was trying to do is express her opinion and offer a different view than she gathered from her reading on the forum.
 
Lili said:
I think all @notforme was trying to do is express her opinion and offer a different view than she gathered from her reading on the forum.
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I beg to differ, and @Cap's post just above yours, @Lili, provides some of the evidence; I invite you to follow that link to see where @notforme has come from in the past, in the absence of a response from her that could enlighten us about any change of heart she may have had since then.

Keith Martin said:
I would say that anyone who asserts that polygamy is for everyone is not only misguided but probably had great difficulty with math after about the 2nd grade. But I don't know if I've ever heard or read anyone assert that polygamy is for everyone, so I can't address such nonsense given that I don't know who is saying it, here or elsewhere.
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notforme said:
I was not trying to imply that anyone on this forum has stated polygamy is for everyone. I meant it as my own opinion only, going with the thought that because the husband wants it, so should his wife.
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Keith Martin said:
Stand up to bullying, but claiming to be bullied when one is participating in a voluntary online forum should be limited to instances in which one has been singled out for unfair aspersions.
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notforme said:
Again, not at all trying to say anyone is being bullied here. I was trying to get across, that because the husband has decided to take another wife, I don't feel it is right for him to bully his existing wife(wives) into it.

I know there are men on here that would never do that, but there are also men on the opposite end of that realm. They are going to do it, no matter what. If the wife doesn't like it, she can leave.
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There is a rhetorical device called a straw man argument, which occurs when a person throws out a point of view in a manner that implies that it is held by one's opponent, then demonizes the philosophy, thus creating the inference that one's opponent is evil -- even though no evidence has been presented that one's opponent even actually holds that viewpoint. You are repeatedly engaging in this straw-man device. You brought up a belief in polygamy being for everyone but then shrink away from owning that you had asserted that such a belief has been promoted. You pair up men bullying their wives into accepting polygamy with whether or not it's biblical, but then you shrink away from having spoken as if you're on the opposite side of that opinion where Biblical Families is concerned.

I will second something @FollowingHim said to you in 2016 in response to your assertions that polygamy is satanic: we welcome you to participate in these discussions. We are here to support you in any endeavor related to conducting family relationships according to biblical principles. While rare exceptions may exist among us, as a whole we are an organization that promotes the deepest, most profound forms of love within relationships, so we're not about to condone bullying, and we're certainly not foolish enough to promote polygamy for everyone, so those are both red herrings.

Listen closely to everything everyone writes here. I believe you will discover that you'll hear far more instances of people writing that men should be patient with their wives than you will instances of people asserting that a man can just force his wife to accept polygamy. In fact, most of the families who participate in these forum threads are and always will be monogamous, whether by choice or by inability to find suitable additional partners. The focus more than anything for the men here is on being proper leaders of their families, and proper leaders do not bully.

What I further invite you to do, rather than decrying what you don't believe in, is to share more about yourself and what is going on in your life with us.

notforme said:
Many hurtful things are said and done in the process. I see nothing biblical about that approach. Not pointing fingers at anyone on this forum at all. Just speaking from personal experience.
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What comes across between the lines is that you have some personal experiences about which you are upset. Take some time to consider which on here would be the most appropriate outlet for that (perhaps starting with the private women's chat), then share what is actually going on in your life, seeking guidance and support related to whatever your particular situation is, rather than lashing out at everyone who is supportive of something in which you don't choose to participate.
 
Keith Martin said:
We are here to provide support for those who are already have or are seeking to create or become part of plural families, as well as to educate ourselves and those who 'visit' us.
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PeteR said:
The purpose of Biblical Families forum and site is primarily to promote Biblical families in all of their various forms. The general focus is patriarchy and proper roles in relationships
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Thank you for this clarification, @PeteR. That is not the first time I've made this error in my writing here at Biblical Families, and, sadly, it probably won't be the last. From time to time, though, probably because it's the most obvious thing that makes us stand apart, I unconsciously feel like supporting poly is the primary thrust of this community. I do quite fully realize, though, that what you've asserted is much more accurate: we are here to promote Biblical families in all of their various forms, with an emphasis on the scriptural exhortation for men to be patriarchs.
 
notforme said:
It seems like to me, that a man today who wants to be poly, thinks it will be different for him; all he has to say is G_d is making me do it.
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Some men do take that simplistic attitude, and decide to pursue polygamy despite the objection of their first wife just because God says it's ok.

Such men are very foolish, and will be told so in no uncertain terms if they ask for advice here.

A healthy marriage involves the husband leading and supporting his wife in love. To take another when the first wife is extremely strongly opposed, is to start a situation that may end in wife 1 leaving, meaning he's still a monogamist, just with a different woman, and has left a trail of disaster in the lives of his wife and children on the way. It's happened many before. Don't go there.

As others have said, the purpose of this forum is to promote patriarchal families - to encourage men to step up and be good husbands, however many wives they may have. We accept polygamy, but do not promote it as better than monogamy - most families will be monogamous, polygamy is an option not a requirement. It's not for everyone, as you say. And a man who is struggling to be a good husband to one wife has no business trying to be a husband to two.

Having said that, if a man does take a second wife despite his first wife's objections, we would then advise the first wife to stay with him and try to make it work. Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes enormous ones, but we must forgive and continue to love them. Polygamy is survivable even when you didn't want to be in it - and more than one family has survived entering polygamy through a husband's error (e.g. starting with an affair) and has gone to eventually become a loving and successful family unit.

You cannot change your husband, but you can change yourself. God can give you the strength to face any trial. If you are put in this position, don't spend your energy complaining about how bad your husband was. Rather, accept the situation for what it is, and ask God how He would have you respond. Put your energy into being the best wife you can be, despite the circumstances. And see how God blesses your life and the life of your family as a result.
 
FollowingHim said:
Some men do take that simplistic attitude, and decide to pursue polygamy despite the objection of their first wife just because God says it's ok.

Such men are very foolish, and will be told so in no uncertain terms if they ask for advice here.

A healthy marriage involves the husband leading and supporting his wife in love. To take another when the first wife is extremely strongly opposed, is to start a situation that may end in wife 1 leaving, meaning he's still a monogamist, just with a different woman, and has left a trail of disaster in the lives of his wife and children on the way. It's happened many before. Don't go there.

As others have said, the purpose of this forum is to promote patriarchal families - to encourage men to step up and be good husbands, however many wives they may have. We accept polygamy, but do not promote it as better than monogamy - most families will be monogamous, polygamy is an option not a requirement. It's not for everyone, as you say. And a man who is struggling to be a good husband to one wife has no business trying to be a husband to two.

Having said that, if a man does take a second wife despite his first wife's objections, we would then advise the first wife to stay with him and try to make it work. Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes enormous ones, but we must forgive and continue to love them. Polygamy is survivable even when you didn't want to be in it - and more than one family has survived entering polygamy through a husband's error (e.g. starting with an affair) and has gone to eventually become a loving and successful family unit.

You cannot change your husband, but you can change yourself. God can give you the strength to face any trial. If you are put in this position, don't spend your energy complaining about how bad your husband was. Rather, accept the situation for what it is, and ask God how He would have you respond. Put your energy into being the best wife you can be, despite the circumstances. And see how God blesses your life and the life of your family as a result.
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@FollowingHim, this is yet another example of your ability to put together a thorough and comprehensive response. I can't imagine anyone being any more eloquent.
 
Cap said:
Have you changed your mind in that ploy is possible, but not for everyone, and you do not hold your previous view that it is all together wrong?
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I think if I go with the view that it is "all together wrong", then that is making me a judge to those that choose to live it. Bible says I'm not to judge. As you brought up, it has been a long time since I have posted, but I have been following along. Poly is possible, IF all parties are in agreement - hence my original opinion noted on this thread, I don't believe it is for everyone.

Cap said:
Interested to know why you have decided to bring this up again after so long.
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Because I don't believe that a wife should be "forced" to live poly. I don't believe she should be given the option of "take it or leave". I am failing to see the love and growth of a family by this choice. What I see is divorce, heartache, and the man still only having one wife.

So what did he gain?
 
Lili said
I think all @notforme was trying to do is express her opinion and offer a different view than she gathered from her reading on the forum

Thank you.
 
notforme said:
Because I don't believe that a wife should be "forced" to live poly. I don't believe she should be given the option of "take it or leave". I am failing to see the love and growth of a family by this choice. What I see is divorce, heartache, and the man still only having one wife.

So what did he gain?
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When that happens - he gained nothing, and probably shouldn't have started it in the first place.

However I say "probably", because issues like divorce and heartache are two-sided (or more-sided). The fault for a divorce is never 100% with one party and 0% with the other. If a man makes a bad choice, and his wife leaves as a result, who is at fault? Both. The man for starting the mess, and the woman for running from it.
 
And, @notforme , I would point out that in monogamy only world, husbands divorce and remarry all the time to the detriment of first wife and children. Poly patriarchy is the Godly Biblical solution to that broken system....
 
PeteR said:
I would point out that in monogamy only world, husbands divorce and remarry all the time to the detriment of first wife and children
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Agree 100%!
I also agree with others on this forum about the stability of the first marriage. If there are deep rooted issues between the husband and the first wife to where the marriage is on shaky ground already, where is the common sense of adding another wife? You don't fix a first marriage by adding a second!!
 
Agreed 100%! As already asserted, multiple times, we are about Biblical marriage and often that requires helping/counseling people in fixing their mono marriage. I will state though that many an issue in a mono marriage can easily be hidden under the rug and is not exposed until the white hot heat of poly, or potential poly, tests it.
 
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